• Members of the previous forum can retrieve their temporary password here, (login and check your PM).

What is the significance of diet before ayahuasca

Migrated topic.
Rock.0

Rock.0

"Psilocybin makes nicer people
Hi guys,
I'll be jointing my first ayahuasca ceremony this weekend, and the facilitator has emailed me a list of foods to avoid in the few days prior. I'm wondering what the significance of the diet is, and how important it is to follow.

Here is the list of foods to avoid for 2-3 days:
All fermented foods including cheese, yogurt, yeast bread, preserved meats, wine, beer and cider(or any alcoholic beverages). Red meat, nuts, mushrooms, avocados, ripe bananas, dried fruit, strong caffeinated drinks.

I'm curious to know whether these foods are avoided due to interactions with aya? Or is it more for gastrointestinal comfort? I could understand you'd want to avoid dairy and some fruits/veggies, or bread if you are sensitive to lactose, FODMAPs or gluten, respectively. And I get avoiding caffeine and alcohol, but I don't really understand why red meat would need to be avoided as it's arguably the easiest thing in the world to digest due to the lack of fibre.

Can anyone help enlighten me about this stuff?

Thanks :)
 
P.S. I'm struggling hard with withdrawals from cutting out caffeine and thought about microdosing medicinal mushrooms for the next few days to help alleviate some of the symptoms, would this be contraindicated before ayahuasca?
 
I know from experience, eating the wrong things before aya can be bad. I purged out of both ends when i didn't adhere to the diet. There are also some foods that can have dangerous interactions in the body with the presence of an MAOI. Typically the foods to avoid are all unhealthy, except for a few things.

Red meat is pretty bad in general, mainly due to overconsumption and lifestyle choices. Eating meat before psychs can have strange effects on the experience. Almost like the sentience of the animal that was killed for the food is crying out to the Spirit Molecule for salvation. I felt immense guilt over all the lives that were taken in order to feed me. Makes for a challenging experience, certainly not comfortable.

As for the coffee, might i suggest kicking that drug addiction? Apples are far superior for a quick energy boost, and no withdrawals. I would suggest avoiding other psychoactives before aya. Aya is not for fun, aya is not a walk in the park. Aya is something one prepares for, and must endure.
 
Thank you for the great response. So in your experience the importance of diet is a combination of avoiding things that may have a bad interaction with the active ingredients in Aya, along with gastrointestinal upsets, and of spiritual consequences.

I hear you on the meat argument. Changing my meat consumption has been on my mind for a while now.

As for coffee, it's a very big part of the culture where I come from, so it's not an easy one to avoid. And considering there are no real health concerns from regular coffee consumption, I'm not in a hurry to give it up...though being addicted is probably not ideal. I have heard that about apples, but I have a digestive intolerance to them.
 
Rock.0 said:
Thank you for the great response. So in your experience the importance of diet is a combination of avoiding things that may have a bad interaction with the active ingredients in Aya, along with gastrointestinal upsets, and of spiritual consequences.

I hear you on the meat argument. Changing my meat consumption has been on my mind for a while now.

As for coffee, it's a very big part of the culture where I come from, so it's not an easy one to avoid. And considering there are no real health concerns from regular coffee consumption, I'm not in a hurry to give it up...though being addicted is probably not ideal. I have heard that about apples, but I have a digestive intolerance to them.
Click to expand...

Can you push back yout ceremony a week or two? It is worth weening yourself off caffiene IMO. There have been times where i have been okay with my normal caffiene intake leading up to aya or just oral harmala doses & been fine, other times i end up feeling like i have taken some sort of psychedellic speedball & end up with a three day headache. Admittedly though i do consume a ridiculous amount of caffiene.
 
There's no Tyramine reactions with Harmalas or Moclobemide, so none of the Tyramine-containing foods need to be avoided. Red meat, sugar, and other things, even sex, does not need to be avoided (as in avoiding it is unnecessary and the medicine will work fine), but for ceremonial purposes, best to follow the recommended diets given to you by the people who run the ceremony.

Some of the side-effects of Ayahuasca are blamed on Tyramine or diet but in my extensive experience and based on all the research so far, i'd say any headaches one may get when taking Ayahuasca is definitely not from Tyramine and is probably due to the Acetylcholinesterase inhibition (which causes the nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, abdominal pains and all that, possibly even contributes to the sickly body load and can cause headaches), or the vasodilative properties of the Harmalas, or could be dehydration with the vomiting and pooing and fasting if people aren't staying properly hydrated. Also some people have reported taking Ayahuasca and then like 3 days later or so eating cheese or a pizza or some shit and getting a headache, even though the gut's MAO-A inhibition from the Harmalas, especially in tea form, only lasts for about half an hour (or up to 2 hours max with Harmalas in capsule form), so MAO-A would be working like usual and would break down any Tyramine so it definitely isn't the Tyramine.

Harmalas and Moclobemide are RIMA's, totally different than the pharmaceutical irreversible and non-selective MAOI's, only interactions you have to watch out for are drug to drug interactions. Speaking of which, a little bit of Caffeine can go nicely with Aya ime, but too much isn't good, and Caffeine is metabolized by CYP1A2 which the Harmalas inhibit and thus potentiates the Caffeine so a little bit of Caffeine can go a long way and it can be easy to overdo it.
 
Also keep in mind, there's a huge difference between the Ayahuasca dietas (which is what we're talking about here), and the pharmaceutical irreversible and non-selective MAOI diet, which people often times confuse the two and think they're the same thing, but they're not, the dieta is about purification, sensitization, detoxification, all that, the MAOI diet is strictly to avoid Tyramine reactions with irreversible and non-selective MAOI's.
 
ShamensStamen said:
There's no Tyramine reactions with Harmalas or Moclobemide, so none of the Tyramine-containing foods need to be avoided. Red meat, sugar, and other things, even sex, does not need to be avoided (as in avoiding it is unnecessary and the medicine will work fine), but for ceremonial purposes, best to follow the recommended diets given to you by the people who run the ceremony.

Some of the side-effects of Ayahuasca are blamed on Tyramine or diet but in my extensive experience and based on all the research so far, i'd say any headaches one may get when taking Ayahuasca is definitely not from Tyramine and is probably due to the Acetylcholinesterase inhibition (which causes the nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, abdominal pains and all that, possibly even contributes to the sickly body load and can cause headaches), or the vasodilative properties of the Harmalas, or could be dehydration with the vomiting and pooing and fasting if people aren't staying properly hydrated. Also some people have reported taking Ayahuasca and then like 3 days later or so eating cheese or a pizza or some shit and getting a headache, even though the gut's MAO-A inhibition from the Harmalas, especially in tea form, only lasts for about half an hour (or up to 2 hours max with Harmalas in capsule form), so MAO-A would be working like usual and would break down any Tyramine so it definitely isn't the Tyramine.

Harmalas and Moclobemide are RIMA's, totally different than the pharmaceutical irreversible and non-selective MAOI's, only interactions you have to watch out for are drug to drug interactions. Speaking of which, a little bit of Caffeine can go nicely with Aya ime, but too much isn't good, and Caffeine is metabolized by CYP1A2 which the Harmalas inhibit and thus potentiates the Caffeine so a little bit of Caffeine can go a long way and it can be easy to overdo it.

Also keep in mind, there's a huge difference between the Ayahuasca dietas (which is what we're talking about here), and the pharmaceutical irreversible and non-selective MAOI diet, which people often times confuse the two and think they're the same thing, but they're not, the dieta is about purification, sensitization, detoxification, all that, the MAOI diet is strictly to avoid Tyramine reactions with irreversible and non-selective MAOI's.
Click to expand...

Thanks so much mate, that's the sort of depth of info I was after.

So it seems the foods I've been advised to avoid contain tyramine, which is a catecholamine releasing agent (thanks Wikipedia), but you're saying there's no basis for this, as they don't react with Harmalas...but it's worth following for ritualistic purposes.

As for acetylcholinesterase inhibition (Ach-ase-i), I'm guessing that causes a build up of Ach?? Ach having parasympathetic actions could cause reduced BP, HR, I'm not sure what else, but am I on the right track?

As far as caffeine abstinence goes, I did fine today, not a single headache, which really surprised me, just mildly lower on energy and less focus.
 
Yup. It's probably best to follow the rules of the ceremony, but if you should ever find yourself working with Harmalas and DMT/Aya on your own, just know that avoiding Tyramine isn't really necessary.

The Acetylcholinesterase inhibition does increase Acetylcholine which can linger for a few days, the inhibition causes side-effects though the effects on hr and bp would probably be counteracted by the DMT anyways as DMT causes an increase in bp and hr, but the inhibition does cause nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, and headaches.
 
I'm not much of a traditionalist...forewarned. My experience has been that lists of dietary items to be excluded during the ayahuasca/anahuasca prodrome, are largely ritual. That said, smaller portions of generally blander foods seems reasonable. Larger volumes of a cappi intense brew can/will induce strong purgative effects. It is appropriate to have followed prudent bowel "hygiene" prior simply to limit the amount effluent available for discharge during the purge.

Suffice it to say that hyper-particular menus seem pragmatically unnecessary. Alcohol, in excess, during the 48h run up...sucks!! But doesn't it always? Of note, I'd indicate that cocaine, meth or pharmacologically significant doses of prescription(or illicit) opioids is unwise. MJ and tobacco don't seem to be problematic, may even reduce symptoms. Caffeine has fairly short half life(@6h). Generally 3 half lives(@18h) of avoidance makes sense without flirting with withdrawal issues(overplayed), granted you're not a coffee fiend.

Another interesting topic is SSRIs. NOT MAOIs(prescription). Harm reduction protocol suggests that these be discontinued @6weeks prior. Real world experience indicates that the risk for, serotonin syndrome, is not appreciably elevated by harmalas(RIMA) in ayahuasca/anahuasca for patients habituated to AND on a stable dose of SSRI. THIS IS A CONTROVERSIAL TOPIC!! As always, be safe and discuss with your physician prior to consuming intoxicating, illicitly produced, pharmacologically variable(wildly) and wholly untested(by sanctioning organs) brews cooked in Amozonia, or your kitchen!

Peace
 
I'll typically have a breakfast of eggs and a sausage patty, lunch tuna and mayo with a side of two hard boiled eggs, mixed together with green beans on the side, then 4 to 5 hours later the brew. Never noticed any issues with food whatsoever, it's the drugs etc. you have to watch out for, no ssri, no stimulants, no herbals like ginkoba, etc.
 
If you combine the wisdom of all the tribes using Aya, everything is forbidden and everything is allowed!

But a restrictive diet is a really good way to prepare yourself for the ceremony ; you think about eating 30 times a days ; if you cannot have your "typical food", no salt or no sugar, or whatever, you will be reminded CONTINUSLY that you goin to a ceremony! All day, you will be aware of your intention of goin to an ayahuasca ceremony. And this is the preparation, it's your investment, your dedication, your focus.
 
I don't usually follow any special diet; before a ceremony, I eat what I do every day: smoothies made with leafy greens, fruit, avocados, nuts and seeds; brown bread, tahini, rice cakes, more fruit, nuts and seeds. Sometimes tuna and olive oil.

I guess the biggest difference is that before ceremony I tend to abstain from ready meals and matured cheese.
 
I don't think a diet is realy necessary. I have never experienced any discomfort from any kind of food.

Alcohol is the big exception here. I once drank one half glass of wine, shortly after an ayahuasca journey and felt like shit for the entire following day. The most terrible headache i've ever had.
 
Quetzal7 said:
If you combine the wisdom of all the tribes using Aya, everything is forbidden and everything is allowed!

But a restrictive diet is a really good way to prepare yourself for the ceremony ; you think about eating 30 times a days ; if you cannot have your "typical food", no salt or no sugar, or whatever, you will be reminded CONTINUSLY that you goin to a ceremony! All day, you will be aware of your intention of goin to an ayahuasca ceremony. And this is the preparation, it's your investment, your dedication, your focus.
Click to expand...

After my ceremony I can definitely understand this. I was hungry, had a splitting headache and very tired after work, but I felt like this was just my entry fee, about not taking it for granted. I also feel that eating bland foods was good preparation for my body, particularly my gut. Next time I'd be keen to eat that way for a whole week, just to really focus in on the journey ahead.

The ceremony itself was deeply beautiful, terrifying and epic. I'll write a post about it.

Btw, thank you all for your guidance, it really made a difference.
 
Back
Top Bottom