What is the world going to be like when we got through this?

[null24]

What is it like where you are and how do you think your area and the world as a whole will look like when this pandemic is over? We are having our society and governments tested in ways that it never has before, at least in living memory. Just two weeks ago, the reported unemployment stat in OR was 3.3%, now estimates are at 20%. Non essential businesses are not only closing but having to shut down and lay off thousands. Without s broad restructuring of our economic policies, there is no way to return to normal afterwards. My worldview includes the belief that capitalism is bound to liberty, and that government is employed by the people to protect them. This belief is far more theoretical then practical however, and I am entirely cognizant of the many failures of rampant, unbridled capitalism and the fact that I have never actually witnessed it working as I envision.

My hope is that we will as a populace see for ourselves directly what does and does not work, exactly how we are negatively affected by economic policies that favor the rich, how much power we as individuals have to effect change directly through action and how much responsibility as a whole our people have to humanity over their individual selves. And that through these realizations and through actions from which we see immediate positive results, a restructuring will occur that sees more of us actively engaging in policy and enjoying the benefits of our collective labor without a totalitarian state making the determinations of who is able to do so.

In a pandemic, we see that rights become privilege, and we voluntarily stop going outside, cannot work and everything basically freezes in place until this global winter recedes. My fear is that this will eventually lead to a capitulation of our rights and a rise of a far more totalitarian state, through several mechanisms. In the US, an entire generation (the same ones on the news crowding beaches in Florida, so they may be beyond the ability to effect much of anything) has grow up with voluntarily restricted freedoms for the sake of "safety" against an invisible, questionably existent ideological threat. If this very real virus metastasizes into killing more of them and they wake up out their millenial hedonistic delirium, will these entitled children need so much from the government that they willingly give in to a new order?

I guess the question is: how much do we really love each other and how much loyalty do we have to ourselves in compare?

 

[dragonrider]

Maybe we'll learn to have more appreciation for doctors, nurses, and the people who keep society going during lockdown. They all deserve a payrise and then some.

 

[Jin]

I feel the world will not be so different but this is only what I feel , in truth I have no idea what the world will look like in the days to come

I feel what I feel because humans are quite resistant to change their ways , sure the economy will definitely go down and probably bounce back given enough time , but human beings and the world changing much ...........who knows what may happen , all I do hope is they come up with a better way to do things

Seeing the hardwork and effort of medical and police personnel in dealing with this problem does give me hope that humanity will come together in some way or another , probably the only good thing about this crisis is people coming together

 

[dragonrider]

Maybe the financial system is going to be reformed. It is very likely that when all this is over, the total amount of global debts will have become a burden on the worlds economy.

Maybe most of these debts will be cancelled. That would be a chance for many poor countries to make a new start.

 

[hug46]

In the US, an entire generation (the same ones on the news crowding beaches in Florida, so they may be beyond the ability to effect much of anything) has grow up with voluntarily restricted freedoms for the sake of "safety" against an invisible, questionably existent ideological threat.

I don't know much about American politics. Can you explain the above. Are you referring to the patriot act?

 

[null24]

In the US, an entire generation (the same ones on the news crowding beaches in Florida, so they may be beyond the ability to effect much of anything) has grow up with voluntarily restricted freedoms for the sake of "safety" against an invisible, questionably existent ideological threat.

I don't know much about American politics. Can you explain the above. Are you referring to the patriot act?

Exactly.

 

[null24]

I believe that stupidity got us into this, and if we go down, it will be because of the same. The only way out of this is through creativity. The same old same old isn't working.

 

[Jagube]

A relevant article with predictions from big thinkers:
Coronavirus Will Change the World Permanently. Here’s How.

One of the more common themes is doing more of our daily activities online.

I also think people will trust in science and experts' knowledge more.

 

[dragonrider]

The thought that everything that comes from the government must be bad, or even evil, cannot be sustained in times like these.

When our ancestors lived in relatively small tribal communities, problems where dealt with collectively. But in modern societies, we are living together with millions of people. Non-binding, voluntary action is not feasable when you have to deal with serious threats. Almost any serious collective effort automatically IS government.

Good healthcare, education, security. You cannot organise these things on a voluntary base, and you cannot count on free-enterprise to realise all of these things either, because 20% of the population or more will simply not be able to afford any of it, when capitalism alone dictates the conditions.

When you are against any form of government, you will automatically have to be against any collective effort that is nation, state, county, or city-wide and non-voluntary.
Wich means that you will have to be against any collective effort that has a reasonable chance of being succesfull.

But i think that distrust of anything government runs so deep through american society, that even this crisis will not be able to change anything.
It is a way of thinking that connects "climate change is a hoax", "we need guns to protect us against the government", "public healthcare is communism", "the nazi's where socialists" into one ideology.

It looks like many americans would rather die, than give-up these beliefs. Rather kill, even. I'm curious how this is going to unfold.

The whole world is going to be hit hard by this crisis. But countries with a failing government, a high national debt, or with a lot of political tensions are probably going to be hit the hardest.

 

[null24]

The thought that everything that comes from the government must be bad, or even evil, cannot be sustained in times like these.

When our ancestors lived in relatively small tribal communities, problems where dealt with collectively. But in modern societies, we are living together with millions of people. Non-binding, voluntary action is not feasable when you have to deal with serious threats. Almost any serious collective effort automatically IS government.

Good healthcare, education, security. You cannot organise these things on a voluntary base, and you cannot count on free-enterprise to realise all of these things either, because 20% of the population or more will simply not be able to afford any of it, when capitalism alone dictates the conditions.

When you are against any form of government, you will automatically have to be against any collective effort that is nation, state, county, or city-wide and non-voluntary.
Wich means that you will have to be against any collective effort that has a reasonable chance of being succesfull.

I could not agree with you more and thanks for saying that. This situation is the entire reason we have government. Unfortunately politics get in the way of effective government.

But i think that distrust of anything government runs so deep through american society, that even this crisis will not be able to change anything.
It is a way of thinking that connects "climate change is a hoax", "we need guns to protect us against the government", "public healthcare is communism", "the nazi's where socialists" into one ideology.

It looks like many americans would rather die, than give-up these beliefs. Rather kill, even. I'm curious how this is going to unfold.

The whole world is going to be hit hard by this crisis. But countries with a failing government, a high national debt, or with a lot of political tensions are probably going to be hit the hardest.

I pray you are wrong but fear you are right. Sadly, the complete vacuum of information from the government, and downright bad info, and bipartisan bickering; a near total failure on the federal level to manage this crisis only exacerbates the distrust. At the top, I am afraid money is far, far more important than lives. At the same time, many local and state leaders are stepping in and authorizing stay at home orders etc. Oregon's governor just issued a state wide one this morning.

At the same time the level of distrust between neighbors rivals that between citizens and government. As fear and paranoia ramps up, and gun store shelves empty of weapons and ammo (which has in fact happened here) I worry that I may hear the first report of a home-owner shooting someone for doing something like looking for recyclables; which would otherwise normal and innocuous behavior. I don't fear widespread chaos, and don't think there is a tinderbox situation going, but there are some nuts in this place...


This entire thing could be the best thing ever, just what we need in this time of global transition, if creativity is used to solve it and the value of community is fully utilized, solving this crisis, along with the mass realization of the farcical nature of unbridled capitalism combined with a two-part corporatocracy and some rapid restructuring takes place
This sends chills up my spine and I choke up sometimes, but I have to say I have ALWAYS expected this. It's so goddamn sad to me.

 

[Jagube]

One possibile scenario: under social distancing / isolation, people realize a slower pace of life is not that bad, there are alternatives to the rat race, and not being at work all day doesn't have to be boring as they originally thought. This in turn creates pressure on employers to reduce work hours and create a better work/life balance for their employees.

 

[dreamer042]

I think this may be the greatest collaboration of research on a global scale we've ever seen. Over 5000 academic papers have been published since the initial outbreak and we are discovering new information and approaches every day. An unprecedented threat has created an unprecedented level of collaboration, and that's pretty cool! 8)

This is also forcing us to re-examine how our economies are structured, how robust our supply chains are, and how equipped our medical facilities are. I expect we'll see a shoring up at every level in these areas.

This is really demonstrating our technological capabilities, as far as being able to work from home, take classes online, order and deliver products, and generally access and share information quickly and effectively at a massive scale. All things considered, our existing infrastructure has coped pretty well and it's likely we'll see growth in all these areas moving forward.

I think social distancing is also giving us the opportunity to examine our relationships and how we interact with one another, which hopefully will lead us to engaging in more compassionate and authentic ways of relating when we get through this.

It's a big fat reminder that we are truly all in this together, and we still got a lot of stuff to work on.

 

[metta-morpheus]

This whole situation makes me think of that quote by Reagan. That the only way the world would unite is through a global threat from outside this world. He was right, it just wasn’t from the macro, it was from the micro.

 

[Nibs]

Nothing will change. It will be talked about for the next few months when its finally contained, and will be remembered by most people as a time of simple inconvenience. Never underestimate the near sightedness and vanity of the modern day human being. The concern about health will shift quickly to concern about the economy, and then once the money starts flowing again this will become nothing more than a 2020 meme.

 

[BundleflowerPower]

One possibile scenario: under social distancing / isolation, people realize a slower pace of life is not that bad, there are alternatives to the rat race, and not being at work all day doesn't have to be boring as they originally thought. This in turn creates pressure on employers to reduce work hours and create a better work/life balance for their employees.

Awesome thoughts. And perhaps even cause humans to examine their relationship with Mother Earth.

 

[dragonrider]

We cannot predict the future, but i am pretty sure about one thing:

There are economists saying that china will be the new global superpower, and there are also economists saying that china's economy is actually realy instable and full of bubbles.

Well, now we're gonna find out won't we.

I mean, if china's economy is as weak as some people say it is, it should start crumbling now. But if it does not crumble, even with everything thrown at it now and the next few months, then i think we can say that china's economy is pretty resilient.

So this year will be decisive on whether we will live in a china dominated world for the next century.

 

[hug46]

In the US, an entire generation (the same ones on the news crowding beaches in Florida, so they may be beyond the ability to effect much of anything) has grow up with voluntarily restricted freedoms for the sake of "safety" against an invisible, questionably existent ideological threat. If this very real virus metastasizes into killing more of them and they wake up out their millenial hedonistic delirium, will these entitled children need so much from the government that they willingly give in to a new order?

Yeah young people. They can be really annoying. And what really get's my goat is that they have started calling older people "boomer". I got called a f**king boomer by someone on facebook the other day. I've never been so insulted in all of my life. I'm generation X all the way. Which sounds cooler by a magnitude of orders that i can not count over being called a boomer.

But then.... When i think about it, i am not sure whether they are any more entitled than those of my age group. They grew up knowing nothing different than the patriot act. Whereas i and you were the same age as them back in the 20th century. In my country the latter part of that century was a comparatively very easy time and i have to confess that i spent quite a bit of that time in a state of hedonistic delerium myself from all the drugs that i took. And we knew the difference between having a patriot act and not having one. And we didn't stop it. Most young people are dicks because of what old people do or don't do.



My thoughts on what it will happen when the virus finishes bifurcate into a two pronged barbecue fork containing one good sausage and one bad sausage. My good sausage is that we will all celebrate and place a little more value in each others company. Supermarket shelf stackers will be revered as the pillars of our civilisation and a new socialist (no, not communist) dawn will rise.

My bad sausage is that nothing will change and the ineptitude of some of our leaders will take us into a major war that makes the middle east debacle look like a My Little Pony episode. When the war finishes my good sausage analogy will take effect. Egalitarianism, more people being looked after, a boost in quality of life for all and cultural enlightenment. A bit like the 1950s and 1960s in England. Obviously the vietnamese and many other cultures throughout the world weren't that happy during these times.



So basically i think that it may get better but it is more likely to get worse. Maybe a lot worse. And then it'll get better. It'll stay good for a while. Then it'll go bad again. Then it'll keep getting better and worse until we run out of the turtles.

 

[Duncan Disorderly]

Perhaps it's prudent to learn from history and examine the Spanish Flu pandemic. It lasted from January 1918 until December 1920, killing more people than WWI. It's estimated that anywhere between 50 to 100 million people died as a result.

As tragic as COVID is, I don't think we'll lose as many people. The internet and media mean the general population is better informed and less ignorant than they were at the beginning of the 20th century. So, I feel optimistic in this regard.

At the same time, I don't think this will end as soon as we hope and have a feeling it may last as long as the Spanish Flu did. In other words, it will disappear and reappear over the next year or so, with fresh outbreaks.

As far as it changing the world is concerned, I also feel optimistic that a sense of normality will eventually return. During the crisis, it's easy to think things will never be the same again. However, the world recovered from the Spanish Flu. Restaurants and bars reopened. Social distancing gradually reduced. Don't underestimate the tenacity of the human spirit. It can overcome a crisis, not because it has to, but because it NEEDS to.

Stay safe. Stay healthy. Stay positive.

Peace.
DD.

 

[sbios]

Certainly a fascinating time we're in. Did people know how would the Internet morph into at the onset decades back? This is a different kind of wake up call. I see two vast different approaches from people, either empowered or disempowered. This also brings many social and economical issues to the forefront. Do people still willing to accept the huge disparity in society and wealth distributions? How much do you willing to accept for an hour's wage and what resources do you have access to? And what rights do the so call "government" which is nothing more than a group of people have over you? I see the tremendous stupidities in the high/visible places in the "governments"/media and the brilliance as well in all the different fields.

The innate need for genuine connections, the face to face, the physical interactions between people will not be rid off. The controls these governments put into will be the pressure to blow the lids off so to speak. Massive changes are needed and it's an eventual recognition that majority people need. Existentially, what does one want to use the time and this will push people to rethink the already dying "office job" and event the education structures to name a few.

I'm one of the hopeful ones. A major shift in realizing that health is a fundamental right, not a privilege as would some law makers want to make believe. Not only because we're much more connected than we used to realize, but also knowing that how healthcare developed (especially in U.S.) has been highly inefficient and costly. And at the same time become more conscious of our own health and lifestyle...etc.

Well, much like saddhus live in caves, we are now by choice, semi-compelled or forced to live in our own caves. Perhaps we will be a little more enlightened after this.

 

[xss27]

Sorry to be a cynical bastard and a Debbie downer, but I think this is really the calm before the storm.

I would love to believe that this pandemic will force an evaluation of the way we do things, and maybe it will for us personally as individuals. But I do not see that translating to shifting the momentum of our societies, institutions, governments and financial systems. Do we really think the power structures are just going have a moment of clarity and let debt slide? Let us work less hours? Or basically admit that rampant exploitative capitalism based on a love of material things and hedonistic behavior is a failed ideology?

No. They will not.

The economic turbulence this will cause, is causing already, will basically translate to the majority of people working the same (or more) for less, as it always does. The losses of our economic system always get translated down the chain to the bottom of the pile, to us. The draconian legislation our governments have implemented recently, all which happened at lightning speed and in my country (UK) without any real Parliamentary debate, do we really think that it will be rescinded when the pandemic ends? If this situation goes on for an extended period of time we may find ourselves in an even more authoritarian societies than before. The young people of today don't even remember what life was like before 9/11.

Maybe it won't be so dramatic and bad, but the longer the lockdowns continue the more damage is done to our economies. Maybe life will go back to 'normal', but what will be the cost? Things will be more expensive, inquiries will be held into why our governments didn't prepare properly, inquiries will reach conclusions that get uttered on the 6pm news followed by the weather, and the masses will trundle along just as before except the money in their pocket will be worth less and they will have less freedoms.

The only way I see the situation changing the world for the better is if we collectively decide we've had enough of this bullshit and do some spring cleaning in our governmental systems, or aliens lend a helping hand.