My feeling is that the pro gun versus anti gun debate generates as much rancor as does the pro drug versus the anti drug debate.
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What is your viewpoint on Guns?
- Thread starter Phantastica
- Start date
blast_off_tramp
Rising Star
People, people, lets look at the real reason.... LACK OF RESOURCES
Yes, this is true. I actually don't care much about guns. If people want to shoot cans of beer that's fine with me. But when i hear the arguments the people use who're in favor of gun posession i freak out: they sound like paranoid ranting of people who see conspiracies everywhere. If people start saying that gun posession is crucial for a good functioning democracy...well that's just crazy.rivea said:
The moment you need guns to protect yourself, you no longer HAVE a functioning democracy or even a functioning government. And i'm not gonna reason anymore with people who think otherwise, because it's no use. They can go fuck-up the few parts of their nation that haven't been fucked-up yet with their tea-party's or KKK-gatherings or whatever they're called these days, if that's what they so desperately feel like doing.
Civilisation aparently isn't for everyone.
blast_off_tramp
Rising Star
word polytrip... enough said.
clouds
Human
This is a recent story of a 77 year old man that defended his dignity and his properties. Out of nowhere, some narcs told him that he had 24 hours to leave his ranch. What did he do? He told them to fuck off and prepared himself to face the narcs with the guns he used to hunt. He energetically ordered his workers that they did not go to work the next day. Deadline came. Alone, he killed 4 and wounded 2 before he died.
www.hispanicallyspeakingnews.com
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www.hispanicallyspeakingnews.com
I am pro guns and strictly against them as well. I am against a world where guns have to exist, unfortunately we dont live in a world like that. Not yet anyhow.
og-del-narco/details/ranch-owner-given-24-hours-to-surrender-home-or-face-consequences-kills-4-g/3130/[/quote]
thats very tragic. very sad indeed.
thats very tragic. very sad indeed.
Guns used solely for the taking of a life have been designed, invented, and sadly nearly perfected by man. We can't undo this. It is simply impossible at this point in human existence to un-invent something.
The potential of guns is not limited only to how many lives it takes.
A well trained, or supervised person can find shooting off even a lower caliber weapon, such as the .22 rifle, a great stress reliever. A well trained, or supervised person.
The 2nd amendment gives the right to well trained persons to have weapons. Well trained.
Are we seeing the biggest problem with specifically the US and guns yet?
The potential of guns is not limited only to how many lives it takes.
A well trained, or supervised person can find shooting off even a lower caliber weapon, such as the .22 rifle, a great stress reliever. A well trained, or supervised person.
The 2nd amendment gives the right to well trained persons to have weapons. Well trained.
Are we seeing the biggest problem with specifically the US and guns yet?
blue_velvet
Rising Star
He died a WARRIOR!
The gun control issue is going to differ widely across the globe, how your were raised. I think it is hard to say what is good for such and such a country on this issue. Differences in economy, politics, geography will all factor into it. In the US, it the right to bear arms is guaranteed by the Constitution for a very specific reason: to remind the government who they work for. It's not ridiculous or obsolete to think the government might overextend it's hand outrageously. Congress has been trying to pass off responsibility and power to the executive branch, the very kind of thing our founders fought to avoid. I support the right to own a gun. I think reform in other areas will decrease the REAL reason guns are bad. Legalize drugs, decrease unemployment, increase education.
The gun control issue is going to differ widely across the globe, how your were raised. I think it is hard to say what is good for such and such a country on this issue. Differences in economy, politics, geography will all factor into it. In the US, it the right to bear arms is guaranteed by the Constitution for a very specific reason: to remind the government who they work for. It's not ridiculous or obsolete to think the government might overextend it's hand outrageously. Congress has been trying to pass off responsibility and power to the executive branch, the very kind of thing our founders fought to avoid. I support the right to own a gun. I think reform in other areas will decrease the REAL reason guns are bad. Legalize drugs, decrease unemployment, increase education.
Btw maybe some of you like to play war?
There is military simulation games on pc, like ArmaII and Battle Field Project Reality, where you are assigned as a soldier to a platoon. You will be part of a complete war scenario, doing your job as a blue helmet peacekeeper in eastern europe for example. There is leaders, commanders, tanks rumble in the distance behind the hills, helicopter flying overhead, civilians crossing streets, IED's, mortar rounds coming in, snipers, guys behind the arty, rebels, insurgents etc etc. Complete warscenario. Age of players is above 30 usually. Military strats and discipline are applied. These are fairly serious war simulations for fairly serious people.
You think you are a soldier? You want to follow orders? or do you think you are a leader? Can you make the right decisions under stress? Read the compass or map? Set up an ambush, or flank? Try good warsimulation to find out
But dont be surprised if the war goes by without you firing a shot. Its quite normal actually.
Just for the record: war is horror, warsims are fun. Quite a contrast.
Peace.
There is military simulation games on pc, like ArmaII and Battle Field Project Reality, where you are assigned as a soldier to a platoon. You will be part of a complete war scenario, doing your job as a blue helmet peacekeeper in eastern europe for example. There is leaders, commanders, tanks rumble in the distance behind the hills, helicopter flying overhead, civilians crossing streets, IED's, mortar rounds coming in, snipers, guys behind the arty, rebels, insurgents etc etc. Complete warscenario. Age of players is above 30 usually. Military strats and discipline are applied. These are fairly serious war simulations for fairly serious people.
You think you are a soldier? You want to follow orders? or do you think you are a leader? Can you make the right decisions under stress? Read the compass or map? Set up an ambush, or flank? Try good warsimulation to find out
But dont be surprised if the war goes by without you firing a shot. Its quite normal actually.
Just for the record: war is horror, warsims are fun. Quite a contrast.
Peace.
clouds said:
Narcs? I read in that story your linked to that criminals wanted to take his ranch but he prepared for that and killed four of them before getting killed himself.
The police just found the battle scene.
Kind regards,
The Traveler
clouds
Human
The Traveler said:
My bad. I should have said drug-criminals or something like that. I don't know the translation for "narcotraficantes", I guess the word should have been drug mercenaries or something like that. Here in mexico, there are three types of these criminals.
1. Drug dealers / dealers : They dont kill people. They just sell the drugs.
2. Mercenaries / sicarios : They only kill people. They receive orders, some of them aren't addicts.
3. Drug Lords / narcos : They only give orders. They own the drugs.
I forgot that the term "narc" in English is the opposite of "narcos" in Spanish. Sometimes, in Spanish people just generalize and calls "narcos" to the dealers, the mercenaries and the drug lords. All this happened in Mexico, btw.
p.s. In reality, the ones the found the crime scene was the military force, not the police. The police is corrupted to the bone in this country, I guess thats why the man didn't even ask for help. He knew he was on his own.
clouds said:
Ah, that an understandable mix-up. Thank you for explaining.
Kind regards,
The Traveler
wineart
Rising Star
I too am a gun owner (rifles)& I own several of various calibers. That being said I am also a hunter and have been for more than 40 years.
I have yet to have my first DMT experience. One of the reasons I am a tad hesitant to immerse myself in hyperspace is the fact I am a hunter and have killed way more 100 deer. I live in an area of the US that most of the folks here need that meat to suppliment thier meager livings. I particularly don't have such a strain on my finances the creates the "need" to hunt to live.
I have always been of the mindset that if one (a man in particular)is going to consume flesh he NEEDS to be responsible for the carnage associated with the taking of any animal for food. I am actually offended when people find disdain in hunting and yet relish in food (meats) provided by a drive through window. One must be of serious intent and gentle of heart when approaching hunting as a way of provision.
I have in the past and present been a bit heartbroken in taking an itelligent animals life. I once took a large and splendid buck. The only shot I had was into the spinal cord (from more than a hundred foot ledge). The deer wounded bolted off. He only went a couple of steps, but out of my field of vision. It was bitterly cold (maybe -10F). Went I went to find this "trophy" I knew where he was hidden from the large clouds of vapor coming from his unlabored breathing. His spinal cord was severed and was obviously paralyzed. We was completely concious and was looking at me, very wide eyed.
I wanted desperately to comfort him, to touch him but I knew it wasn't for his sake but my own. The best thing I could do was "dispatch him" as quickly as I could. I dragged this deer for 8 hours to the nearest logging road.
Since that day I have continued to hunt and have garnered even a greater respect for the animal, but I NEVER shoot unless I am sure he will "never knew what hit him".
On the other hand, we have an enormous "winter kill" here. Winters are devestaing to the herd. Up to 90% stravation rates. This area would never have such a large deer population, leaving it to nature. The estimated whitetail deer population at the time of colonization was around 1,000,000 nationwide. Today we have that many in NY State alone. Deer are highly dependent on human habitation to provide them with otherwise unavailable food (lawns, flower beds & crops). It is actually humane to to thin the population.
I have recently dealt with colon cancer and and that it's nasty cure entails (surgery, chemo & radiation). I was left with nearly a year to contimplate my life and the impact I have had on all of the lives I have touched, including the lives of animals.
Sorry if my post is tangental. My gun ownership has never been defense related. Though I rest assured I can reach out to 600 yards with my 7mm ultra mag so I guess self defense has been taken for grantid. I also enjoy shooting for the sport. There is a sense of being in ultimate control over an incredibly powerful weapon.
I am not sure if my past hunting experiences will "interfere" with hyperspace? I am trying to purify my heart and purge myself of guilt not just related to hunting, but for all and any pain I have caused anyone in my life, before entering hyperspace. My best hope on these issues is that they are trivial in the light of eternity.
Let me end this post before I ramble into any other tangental subjet matter.
I have yet to have my first DMT experience. One of the reasons I am a tad hesitant to immerse myself in hyperspace is the fact I am a hunter and have killed way more 100 deer. I live in an area of the US that most of the folks here need that meat to suppliment thier meager livings. I particularly don't have such a strain on my finances the creates the "need" to hunt to live.
I have always been of the mindset that if one (a man in particular)is going to consume flesh he NEEDS to be responsible for the carnage associated with the taking of any animal for food. I am actually offended when people find disdain in hunting and yet relish in food (meats) provided by a drive through window. One must be of serious intent and gentle of heart when approaching hunting as a way of provision.
I have in the past and present been a bit heartbroken in taking an itelligent animals life. I once took a large and splendid buck. The only shot I had was into the spinal cord (from more than a hundred foot ledge). The deer wounded bolted off. He only went a couple of steps, but out of my field of vision. It was bitterly cold (maybe -10F). Went I went to find this "trophy" I knew where he was hidden from the large clouds of vapor coming from his unlabored breathing. His spinal cord was severed and was obviously paralyzed. We was completely concious and was looking at me, very wide eyed.
I wanted desperately to comfort him, to touch him but I knew it wasn't for his sake but my own. The best thing I could do was "dispatch him" as quickly as I could. I dragged this deer for 8 hours to the nearest logging road.
Since that day I have continued to hunt and have garnered even a greater respect for the animal, but I NEVER shoot unless I am sure he will "never knew what hit him".
On the other hand, we have an enormous "winter kill" here. Winters are devestaing to the herd. Up to 90% stravation rates. This area would never have such a large deer population, leaving it to nature. The estimated whitetail deer population at the time of colonization was around 1,000,000 nationwide. Today we have that many in NY State alone. Deer are highly dependent on human habitation to provide them with otherwise unavailable food (lawns, flower beds & crops). It is actually humane to to thin the population.
I have recently dealt with colon cancer and and that it's nasty cure entails (surgery, chemo & radiation). I was left with nearly a year to contimplate my life and the impact I have had on all of the lives I have touched, including the lives of animals.
Sorry if my post is tangental. My gun ownership has never been defense related. Though I rest assured I can reach out to 600 yards with my 7mm ultra mag so I guess self defense has been taken for grantid. I also enjoy shooting for the sport. There is a sense of being in ultimate control over an incredibly powerful weapon.
I am not sure if my past hunting experiences will "interfere" with hyperspace? I am trying to purify my heart and purge myself of guilt not just related to hunting, but for all and any pain I have caused anyone in my life, before entering hyperspace. My best hope on these issues is that they are trivial in the light of eternity.
Let me end this post before I ramble into any other tangental subjet matter.
Wineart, I found that to be a beautiful and deeply moving post. I completely agree with your statement about carnivores who openly disdain hunting (and thank you for putting it so succinctly). Thank you for sharing this and...if I may, allow me to say that, from this post you come across as a deeply insightful/self-aware individual who has a very solid grasp on "what's up". I would be greatly surprised if these experiences interfered with a hyperspace experience for you for several reasons.
First, having gone through cancer treatment and the associated life (mental and physical) you have been to the proverbial edge, so to speak. You have had to contemplate your own mortality in ways that I can't even begin to comprehend (seriously, I can't imagine dealing with the doctors and treatments and the long, drawn-out, arduous process that you no doubt went through). Imo, anyone who has experienced that and displays the compassion towards living things that you clearly do and has the outlook that you espouse is more than equipped for the experience of hyperspace and has at least as good a handle on their "baggage" as anyone else on here.
Additionally, with regards to your hunting, not only are you clearly self-aware and conscious of what you are doing, but even in your contemplating hyperspace you are still so aware of the roles you have played in these various life interactions that again, I would posit you are more than equipped for hyperspace. Finally, as a parting thought, I would point out that many of the cultures in which ayahuasca/dmt are used are hunter/gatherer (not a fan of the term, but it applies) societies.
I don't know all that much about their hunting rituals, but I would imagine they have a framework with its own similarities and differences to Native American hunting cultures (many of which also used psychoactives) and that this framework relies on self-conscious and eco-conscious individuals and hunting methodologies. I believe, from your post, that your outlook would fall into a similar vein as these societies and you have nothing to worry about...I can't guarantee it, but I feel fairly confident in saying so, having read your posts.
I can't tell you how moving I found this post, it was a really great way to start my day today and I thank you for sharing. I look forward to hearing about your hyperspace experiences if/when you decide to take the plunge and I hope to interact with you more in the future.
peace
SB
First, having gone through cancer treatment and the associated life (mental and physical) you have been to the proverbial edge, so to speak. You have had to contemplate your own mortality in ways that I can't even begin to comprehend (seriously, I can't imagine dealing with the doctors and treatments and the long, drawn-out, arduous process that you no doubt went through). Imo, anyone who has experienced that and displays the compassion towards living things that you clearly do and has the outlook that you espouse is more than equipped for the experience of hyperspace and has at least as good a handle on their "baggage" as anyone else on here.
Additionally, with regards to your hunting, not only are you clearly self-aware and conscious of what you are doing, but even in your contemplating hyperspace you are still so aware of the roles you have played in these various life interactions that again, I would posit you are more than equipped for hyperspace. Finally, as a parting thought, I would point out that many of the cultures in which ayahuasca/dmt are used are hunter/gatherer (not a fan of the term, but it applies) societies.
I don't know all that much about their hunting rituals, but I would imagine they have a framework with its own similarities and differences to Native American hunting cultures (many of which also used psychoactives) and that this framework relies on self-conscious and eco-conscious individuals and hunting methodologies. I believe, from your post, that your outlook would fall into a similar vein as these societies and you have nothing to worry about...I can't guarantee it, but I feel fairly confident in saying so, having read your posts.
I can't tell you how moving I found this post, it was a really great way to start my day today and I thank you for sharing. I look forward to hearing about your hyperspace experiences if/when you decide to take the plunge and I hope to interact with you more in the future.
peace
SB
Excellent post wineheart and perfect reply too, snozz.. I completely agree!
And yes, hunting in traditional indigenous societies (the ones I know about at least) isnt an unconscious mechanic activity, there is a very big connection to the animal, who's soul is "blessed" and thanked for serving its purpouse of feeding them. I think the way you are doing, wineheart, is infinitely better than just buying some mass-produced industrialized pre-packaged meat.
One thing that still remains though, but thats only my personal opinion and im sure some wont agree, is that even if you are using the guns rightfully, one still is supporting the arms industry when purchasing the guns and ammunitions, and this is something I feel is negative. But given the use you make, I think its much better than the typical trigger-happy idiots out there.
In any case, Wineheart im happy for your display of awareness and self-criticism. We can never know but I think you'll do just fine in hyperspace. Good luck and do tell us how it went
And yes, hunting in traditional indigenous societies (the ones I know about at least) isnt an unconscious mechanic activity, there is a very big connection to the animal, who's soul is "blessed" and thanked for serving its purpouse of feeding them. I think the way you are doing, wineheart, is infinitely better than just buying some mass-produced industrialized pre-packaged meat.
One thing that still remains though, but thats only my personal opinion and im sure some wont agree, is that even if you are using the guns rightfully, one still is supporting the arms industry when purchasing the guns and ammunitions, and this is something I feel is negative. But given the use you make, I think its much better than the typical trigger-happy idiots out there.
In any case, Wineheart im happy for your display of awareness and self-criticism. We can never know but I think you'll do just fine in hyperspace. Good luck and do tell us how it went
I have to agree with the last two posts, that i was moved by wineheats words.
I also find it huge a relief that the 'debate' on guns for once isn't being hijacked by paranoid conspiracy theories.
I have posted in another thread that i feel that occupying your mind with subjects that in some sense involve agression, even if it's in an abstract manner, does seem to move your mindset to a more agressive state of being.
That is exactly what so often seems to plague the debate on guns. It is a huge relief to see how someone can talk about gun-ownership and use and that at the same time he can distance himself from that psychological mechanism.
Thinking about anything that involves vile agression just so often lures you into thinking and feeling in a certain way.
Winehearts post shows exactly how it is totally possible to rise above that.
All we have to do is to think about life and death, and ask ourselves: "is THIS* the way i want to spent my limited stay on this planet?"
*-referring to paranoia, one-sidedness, unforgivingness, agression, etc.
I also find it huge a relief that the 'debate' on guns for once isn't being hijacked by paranoid conspiracy theories.
I have posted in another thread that i feel that occupying your mind with subjects that in some sense involve agression, even if it's in an abstract manner, does seem to move your mindset to a more agressive state of being.
That is exactly what so often seems to plague the debate on guns. It is a huge relief to see how someone can talk about gun-ownership and use and that at the same time he can distance himself from that psychological mechanism.
Thinking about anything that involves vile agression just so often lures you into thinking and feeling in a certain way.
Winehearts post shows exactly how it is totally possible to rise above that.
All we have to do is to think about life and death, and ask ourselves: "is THIS* the way i want to spent my limited stay on this planet?"
*-referring to paranoia, one-sidedness, unforgivingness, agression, etc.
Kartikay
Rising Star
If the masses can't have guns, the masses can't have a revolution. Sometimes a revolution is needed to overthrow a failed government.
It sucks that guns cause so much damage in the interims, and that the masses only need guns because the military already has them.
Also, I think we should be allowed to hunt with guns. For food, not game.
It sucks that guns cause so much damage in the interims, and that the masses only need guns because the military already has them.
Also, I think we should be allowed to hunt with guns. For food, not game.