what should a sitter do if person screams, gets up, gets violent or is visibly haveing bad trip

[kgp4death]

what should a sitter do if person screams, gets up, gets violent or is visibly having bad trip? what else should they do besides be quite, create good atmosphere and hold the pipe.

 

[Global]

Is this question based on an incident that occurred, or are you anticipating something? I think you provide very useful things to do. There is not all too much that can be done. They should settle down fairly quickly. They can be reminded that it will be over very shortly, and that nothing bad can happen to their bodies. That someone should become violent seems unlikely to me. In terms of the screaming, that is an issue that will vary depending on context. If there are neighbors around that can hear the scream, but shouldn't be, then they may be reminded that it is in their interest to keep it down. If this is not an issue, I say let them scream. Screaming can be both cathartic as well as be an interactive element with hyperspace. Sometimes a good scream could be just what the doctor called for. Perhaps it could be arranged that the sitter cue some calming pre-selected music in event of emotional crisis. Music can work wonders in hyperspace.

 

[kgp4death]

yeah friend kept screaming "i am god" over and over very very loud. I tried to tell him calm down but I didn't know what to do, like try to wake him up or tell him to open his eyes or what.

 

[rootsie]

Yeah... years ago that person was me--after an unexpectedly massive hit of 5-MeO-DMT--violently thrashing about with superhuman strength and making strange loud noises for at least two solid hours.

So here's what you do:

First, a pre-flight check-in is a good thing to do with your sitter. Cover your general mood, mindset, and intentions; let them know about any health issues, medications you've been taking, and potential interactions; make sure they are well informed about the substance you'll be engaged with, the benefits you see, as well as the risks involved. And be sure they really understand what you're asking of them and getting clear verbal consent from them to play that role.

Next, invest in lots of soft cushy pillows and such. Remove from the area any sharp, pointy, or otherwise dangerous objects (the corners of tables can really sneak up on you :shock: ).

So when you finally blast off, in spite of all your preparation, you go right for the holy-moly-exorcist-girl-ain't-got-nothin'-on-me trip...

Your friend should try to remain as calm and centered as possible and try to hold your ass down to keep you from hurting yourself while simultaneously keeping you from hurting them. But don't worry, most people eventually come down :surprised (that's what they keep telling me anyway ).

Seriously though, it's pretty rare but it can happen. Just DON'T PANIC! Remember to BREATHE. Everything works out in the end, even though it takes all of eternity.

Peace and safe travels!

 

[rootsie]

The "God" thing is pretty typical and most folks will eventually calm down about it. There is some truth to the idea. But as soon as you identify with the idea, any truth immediately slips away. Humility comes with experience. The one exception is those with bipolar or similar challenges... That's a whole 'nuther ball of wax .

 

[kgp4death]

why did you bring bipolar up is that a problem?

 

[Heyt]

why did you bring bipolar up is that a problem?

To quote the Kool-Aid man - Ooooooh yeeeeeaah.

My close friend ended up butt naked in a tree, covered in mud, singing gibberish at the top of his lungs. DMT and bipolar can be a very tricky business.

 

[rootsie]

Not a problem... It's just I've had good friends that have it and they can sometimes get stuck on the idea, especially during manic episodes, and it can be a recurring theme throughout their lives. Also, these manic states could potentially be triggered by or amplified be use of substances. And it isn't clear sometimes if exogenous or endogenous chemicals or the combination are stirring things up. Manic episodes can last days or weeks with little or no sleep. It can be quite disconcerting to be present and calm with such a friend.

I think the hardest part of being a sitter is not getting caught up in the drama of someone else's trip and projecting your own fears and anxieties onto it. You just gotta let people have their trip, however it looks, and stay centered in your own truth. If there's behavior that puts themselves or others at risk though, then action is certainly warranted--but calm, centered, non-judgemental action (to whatever extent of our capacity). You don't want to escalate a situation.

And just keep breathing!

 

[○]

Not a problem... It's just I've had good friends that have it and they can sometimes get stuck on the idea, especially during manic episodes, and it can be a recurring theme throughout their lives. Also, these manic states could potentially be triggered by or amplified be use of substances. And it isn't clear sometimes if exogenous or endogenous chemicals or the combination are stirring things up. Manic episodes can last days or weeks with little or no sleep. It can be quite disconcerting to be present and calm with such a friend.

I think the hardest part of being a sitter is not getting caught up in the drama of someone else's trip and projecting your own fears and anxieties onto it. You just gotta let people have their trip, however it looks, and stay centered in your own truth. If there's behavior that puts themselves or others at risk though, then action is certainly warranted--but calm, centered, non-judgemental action (to whatever extent of our capacity). You don't want to escalate a situation.

And just keep breathing!

Good stuff. :thumb_up:

 

[Global]

yeah friend kept screaming "i am god" over and over very very loud. I tried to tell him calm down but I didn't know what to do, like try to wake him up or tell him to open his eyes or what.

That sounds fine. I don't feel like it's the sitter's place to interfere unless physical or legal danger is imminent. It's hard to tell what's going on on the "inside" from the outside, and trying to talk someone down from screaming "i am god," could ruin their experience. Unless those dangers are imminent, you should only intervene if asked.

 

[Jees]

...And just keep breathing!

If you could gently get/persuade them into a breathing together exercise status, and slow the breathing tempo. :thumb_up:

 

[kgp4death]

...And just keep breathing!

If you could gently get/persuade them into a breathing together exercise status, and slow the breathing tempo. :thumb_up:

Is someone into Tantra (no not in the bastardized sense of the word, but in the energy work sense of the word).....

 

[FLeP]

Not a problem... It's just I've had good friends that have it and they can sometimes get stuck on the idea, especially during manic episodes, and it can be a recurring theme throughout their lives. Also, these manic states could potentially be triggered by or amplified be use of substances. And it isn't clear sometimes if exogenous or endogenous chemicals or the combination are stirring things up. Manic episodes can last days or weeks with little or no sleep. It can be quite disconcerting to be present and calm with such a friend.

I think the hardest part of being a sitter is not getting caught up in the drama of someone else's trip and projecting your own fears and anxieties onto it. You just gotta let people have their trip, however it looks, and stay centered in your own truth. If there's behavior that puts themselves or others at risk though, then action is certainly warranted--but calm, centered, non-judgemental action (to whatever extent of our capacity). You don't want to escalate a situation.

And just keep breathing!

Are the friends that you've noticed this with well medicated? Also, do you just suspect they are bipolar because of their mood swings or have they been diagnosed by a professional?

 

[Cognitive Heart]

Fantastic thread so far. :thumb_up:

I can relate with a friend who experienced violent-odd behavior whilst on a psychedelic. Out of all substances, ergine promoted this kind of behavior anyone 'sober-minded' could see as dangerous if he were by himself. At the time, anyways. It was his first experience with any entheogen and he had a difficult time accepting the present sensations he was feeling. He ended up with no shirt, shoes or socks on, throwing his clothes off carelessly with eyes so wide and confused, sweating profusely and completely unable to associate himself with reality. He walked around aimlessly and almost 'stuck' on a looped pattern of thinking. It can happen. Especially if it is extremely humid and high temp outside. I focused his attention on hydration, relaxing, breathing and simple, repetitive interactions with the world in a small, isolated forest away from city where he originally ingested it. He actually ended up having an interesting, enjoyable yet intensely profound dream-like experience in where he had a radical vision with his mother.

I'd also like to suggest that sitters who are of witness to any violent behavior that you do not associate yourself with them and just be there and care for them. Telling them to do something might be against their will during the experience and offset said person leading to possible agitation. Allow them to see it for themselves.

I would also agree that screaming during the experience can certainly be beneficial when and if it feels natural to do so. Mainly as a way of expressing oneself. Of course, this can be dangerous if their physicality is involved/active but their mind is elsewhere. Caution in set and setting, sitter and having some peaceful music are all mutually good practices during these powerful states of consciousness. Prevention is key.

 

[kgp4death]

I want to add if someone is taking cloths off and wanting to walk around make sure they do not go outside on cold days frost bite and hypothermia happen pretty quick, and if one passes out in the snow or something real bad things could happen.

 

[quetzalcoatl42]

chill, talk soothingly, love your friend...

EDIT: Restrain if subject is in danger of itself, most of all, DON'T panic yourself.

 

[sdspark]

yeah friend kept screaming "i am god" over and over very very loud. I tried to tell him calm down but I didn't know what to do, like try to wake him up or tell him to open his eyes or what.

Here's what you need to do. Next time he does that, saying "I am God" and he will if he hasn't made any progression mentally past this realization, say to him absolutely (maybe even as loudly as he is screaming) :
"If you are God, then who am I?"
"If you are God, then why must you insist that's so?"
"Does God need to flatter himself?"

Pick any of those. Any will do. Or all three. The point is to humor him by challenging him. Simply, politely, earnestly, in whatever manner you find appropriate, say those things. And if he is truly discovering his genius, those questions will cause him to begin another thought process which will end up wrapping around on top of itself (so-to-speak). What I mean is, if he says he's god, ask god questions about what it's like to be god, who is god, what is god.

I propose this is the healthiest and wisest thing you can do. You have to disrupt an intellect that has gotten stuck on a loop with an equally powerful question to upset his obsession, and the implication of your question will cause in his mind a dismantling of the obsessive and spiritually immature behavior by illuminating a dark intellectual recess not yet investigated. This is how you turn fools into the wise.

I respectfully disagree. The sitters job isn't to challenge the person tripping or to impose their own ideas of what the person should be realizing. The sitters job is to make sure the person tripping stays safe. What you're proposing could set the person off and create a less-safe environment.

 

[Global]

Thinking you shouldn't engage is still a form of control though. The only reason people feel that way is because they don't want to feel responsible for the psyche of their friend. And that's related to our own insecurity about our very own psyche. There is a line beyond which, as the OP was pointing out, that if things get ridiculous and the tripper seems be stuck in a thought loop, then That's when a slight push on the sitter's part is helpful, though not necessary. We're not trying to trying to create a permanent inflexible rule - we're saying feel out the situation and do what simply feels appropriate. What people do not seem to see is that your trip is everyone's else trip, just as everyone else's trip is too your trip. We trip together. We trip alone. Like back and front, yang and yin; the point is to react by the heart not by the mind. But sometimes, as I pointed out, it's going to be more helpful to use the mind.

Peace

I think that sounds pretty ridiculous. The tripper is the one who is letting the sitter be present, so it should be on the tripper's terms which can very easily be worked out ahead of time. Quite frankly, I don't think that the sitter is responsible for for the other's psyche. It's a shame that our trips aren't each other's, but that's just simply not how the whole process works. I personally avoid sitter's because outside influences are incredibly annoying.

Going back to the god example, if someone is blissfully enraptured as they never before have been and may very well never be again, and then you decide that you need to talk them down from a cherished moment in life just because you act impetuously with your heart in an effort to play some kind of role in an experience that really is not yours and has little to do with you, then I would find that to not only be inappropriate, but unethical as well. IMO you belong best in the other room, to be summoned if need be.

 

[jamie]

I think as sitters, facilitators..maybe some of you are actual therapists etc, the best thing we can do is nothing.

Unless a person is actually violent, or hurting themselves physically, just do nothing. No one can really say what process is good or bad for another when simply observed from the outside. In the end, none of us know, period.

Find the least intrusive way to minimize actual harm being done physically, aside from that, let it happen. You don't know, I don't know, but perhaps they do.

 

[tseuq]

I think as sitters, facilitators..maybe some of you are actual therapists etc, the best thing we can do is nothing.

Unless a person is actually violent, or hurting themselves physically, just do nothing. No one can really say what process is good or bad for another when simply observed from the outside. In the end, none of us know, period.

Find the least intrusive way to minimize actual harm being done physically, aside from that, let it happen. You don't know, I don't know, but perhaps they do.

I agree with that.

The sitter should keep the atmosphere smooth and accepting to keep the experience flowing. The mysterium regulates itself. Like in a rollersoaster, it can go up and down and up again, important is that the trip "fades out" in a balanced and trusty feeling and not in a peak of fear and weirdness because the sitter fears her/himself and pulls the tripping person out of the rollercoaster car.

Things that support me as a sitter and tripper:
+Breathing: the ultimate mechanism, it is the elementary regulation system, breath is like god, flow of energy
+Chanting/Oming: it regulates the breath and brings vibrations and other sensations, f.e.sound and a change of the atmosphere, to the experience
+Bodycontact: ask before, f.e. gently touch the tripping person on the shoulder, back, hands, feet, head,.. and stay in contact
+Offering sip of fruitjuice: Liquid and sugar act grounding and reenergizing
+An open and accepting attitude, trust in yourself, in your own power, the other person and the mysterium that everything is just perfect as it is.

tseuq