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what tek do you use? and why?
- Thread starter travinski
- Start date
SWIM uses his own STB tek, alien tek. It is a normal STB, except SWIM does sodium carbonate wash and recrystalizes at least once.
SWIM has done an STB side by side with an A/B tek and found no gains in yield or purity in the A/B, but only more work.. Thats why SWIM wont do an A/B extraction with mimosa root bark, its unnecessary. With other things, he could do.
SWIM has done an STB side by side with an A/B tek and found no gains in yield or purity in the A/B, but only more work.. Thats why SWIM wont do an A/B extraction with mimosa root bark, its unnecessary. With other things, he could do.
SWIM doesn't use a tek, he just freehands the extraction. He prefers A/B extractions, since mixing the naphtha and nonpolar layer can be done more thoroughly without forming emulsions in a sep funnel, and you can't use a sep funnel doing an STB (with naphtha). Also, he doesn't find A/B to be any more work than STB.
What SWIM does: Break up bark in a saucepan. Cover with water and add a bit of citric acid to acidify to pH 4-5, leave on a low simmer for a couple hours. Pour off the water, cover bark with fresh water and a fresh pinch of citric acid, simmer on low for a couple hours, pour off the water. After one more round of simmering with fresh acidified water, the bark is discarded, and all extractions are pooled together in the saucepan and left simmering for several hours until they're down to 400-500 mL. This is then left overnight to allow fiber/particulate to settle into a cake at the bottom. (So far, the process has only taken about 15 minutes of active attention). Next, a strong solution of NaOH is mixed and added gradually to the acidic extract, until it changes to a dark slippery black, at which point the solution is saturated with NaCl. This goes into the sep funnel with some heated naphtha. Only one pull is done at a time, so that the supernatent can be re-used for the next pull after freeze-precipitation.
SWIM doesn't weigh/measure anything (except for the final product), and doesn't even check pH after getting a feel for how much citric acid it takes to appropriately acidify the water for the initial extractions.
What SWIM does: Break up bark in a saucepan. Cover with water and add a bit of citric acid to acidify to pH 4-5, leave on a low simmer for a couple hours. Pour off the water, cover bark with fresh water and a fresh pinch of citric acid, simmer on low for a couple hours, pour off the water. After one more round of simmering with fresh acidified water, the bark is discarded, and all extractions are pooled together in the saucepan and left simmering for several hours until they're down to 400-500 mL. This is then left overnight to allow fiber/particulate to settle into a cake at the bottom. (So far, the process has only taken about 15 minutes of active attention). Next, a strong solution of NaOH is mixed and added gradually to the acidic extract, until it changes to a dark slippery black, at which point the solution is saturated with NaCl. This goes into the sep funnel with some heated naphtha. Only one pull is done at a time, so that the supernatent can be re-used for the next pull after freeze-precipitation.
SWIM doesn't weigh/measure anything (except for the final product), and doesn't even check pH after getting a feel for how much citric acid it takes to appropriately acidify the water for the initial extractions.
SWIM also freehands. He uses A/B (HCl/NaOH) with toulene pulls followed by the ever-so-handy FASA method. SWIM has a soft spot in his heart for HDPE jugs (for NPS pulls), 5gal buckets (for final pulls leading up to disposal), nasal aspirators (thanks acolon), and and chianti bottles (for pipetting from the bottle neck). SWIM collects all leftover materials--bark and soup--in a 5gal bucket for final pseudo-STB pulls (which turned out to be a life-saver last time, likely due to ph levels).
However, SWIM will now be focusing on helping develop the newer acetone-based techniques, so SWIM currently uses sodium carbonate with minimal water followed by acetone pulls and evap to freebase from fumarate product. SWIM still uses VM&P naphtha with freeze-precip to retrieve pure spice from jungle-spice, but hopes to one day practice proper crystal growing techniques.
SWIM hopes to see some success from the acetone based extraction, but if not SWIM would likely experiment with DCM pulls, as he has vowed to never purchase another can of xylene or toulene ever again. These would be performed almost completely within a 5-gal bucket--to include grinding MHRB--as an A/B and STB hybrid.
However, SWIM will now be focusing on helping develop the newer acetone-based techniques, so SWIM currently uses sodium carbonate with minimal water followed by acetone pulls and evap to freebase from fumarate product. SWIM still uses VM&P naphtha with freeze-precip to retrieve pure spice from jungle-spice, but hopes to one day practice proper crystal growing techniques.
SWIM hopes to see some success from the acetone based extraction, but if not SWIM would likely experiment with DCM pulls, as he has vowed to never purchase another can of xylene or toulene ever again. These would be performed almost completely within a 5-gal bucket--to include grinding MHRB--as an A/B and STB hybrid.
Entropymancer said:
This is the first swim has heard of folks dreaming about such a high pH acidifying. Granted he is making a return from a few years of hiatus.
What is the reason for this? Swim used to go down to pH ~1-1.5 back in the day.
Also, could swiy give an eyeball esitmate as to how much citric acid he uses to acidify?
Swim kknows what color to basify to, and he really doesnt want to invest in a digital pH meter.
One last question... saturating with NACL... does this help push the alkaloids or something, or is it simply done to keep emulsions at bay?
A pH of 4-5 is plenty low enough to make sure all of the DMT is in its ionized (water-soluble) state; I'm not sure I understand the logic in acidifying down to pH 1.5. Even water which hasn't been acidified should still be relatively effective at pulling the spice out of the bark.
If SWIM had to guess on the citric acid, he says it's probably somewhere around/under a tablespoon per liter.
The NaCl is used with the intention of keeping emulsions at bay, though it may also shift the partition coefficient slightly in a favorable direction (pushing the alkaloids, as you put it).
If SWIM had to guess on the citric acid, he says it's probably somewhere around/under a tablespoon per liter.
The NaCl is used with the intention of keeping emulsions at bay, though it may also shift the partition coefficient slightly in a favorable direction (pushing the alkaloids, as you put it).
I use my own method just like I am guessing most people after a few extractions do.
I use phosphoric acid instead of HCL or vinegar.
I cook the MHRB longer and more times than any of the teks out there require (and find that I can still get spice out of my 5th and 6th cook).
I use only enough lye to bring the pH up to 11.8-12.00tops
I use much less naptha than is called for 75mL per pull.
I do many more pulls do to the small volume of naphtha, but I never need to reduce the volume before sticking in the freezer.
I will let my basified jug sit in the closet for weeks after it appears to have stopped giving up the spice, and can usually get an additional 300-400mgs from that (1/2K of bark).
I usually grind up my own bark, but it's really a pain, and have probably switched for a while to powdered bark.
I've tried STB extractions, but the clean up and waste of NaOH seems to outweigh the extra steps in an A/B, plus I like to be able to defat the acidic solution before basifing. I also really enjoy the extraction process and am not looking for the easiest way possible. Stealth is also not an issue.
I use phosphoric acid instead of HCL or vinegar.
I cook the MHRB longer and more times than any of the teks out there require (and find that I can still get spice out of my 5th and 6th cook).
I use only enough lye to bring the pH up to 11.8-12.00tops
I use much less naptha than is called for 75mL per pull.
I do many more pulls do to the small volume of naphtha, but I never need to reduce the volume before sticking in the freezer.
I will let my basified jug sit in the closet for weeks after it appears to have stopped giving up the spice, and can usually get an additional 300-400mgs from that (1/2K of bark).
I usually grind up my own bark, but it's really a pain, and have probably switched for a while to powdered bark.
I've tried STB extractions, but the clean up and waste of NaOH seems to outweigh the extra steps in an A/B, plus I like to be able to defat the acidic solution before basifing. I also really enjoy the extraction process and am not looking for the easiest way possible. Stealth is also not an issue.
One could be actually using a A/B - STB hybrid; id est, soak the powdered/shredded bark in water containing 1-2 grams of ascorbic acid for a day or so. Then add enough NaOH for a standard STB, pull 5-6 times using xylene, and salt the alkaloids out using FASA. Fumarates can be converted to their freebase using calcium hydroxide paste and acetone.
This method could produce spectacular results, it has been quite a few times the subject of some intense dreams where yields reaching easily to 2% of total alkaloids in bark has been a recurrent theme. No need to separate pure white spice out of the alkaloidal mixture; it's both a waste of time and loss of the intense experience brought by the smoked synergy of all MHRB alkaloids.
This method could produce spectacular results, it has been quite a few times the subject of some intense dreams where yields reaching easily to 2% of total alkaloids in bark has been a recurrent theme. No need to separate pure white spice out of the alkaloidal mixture; it's both a waste of time and loss of the intense experience brought by the smoked synergy of all MHRB alkaloids.
Infundibulum said:
SWIM was considering switching from sodium carbonate to calcium hydroxide, as some of the sodium carbonate tends to rock up when water is added. Does calcium hydroxide ever do this?
SWIM doesn't have enough experience to say whether it's beneficial to separate them or not, but he notices some differences in the aesthetic qualities of the hallucinations, so he would prefer to leave his options open.