What to do w the GOO??? (post Re-X)

[Cosmicbenji]

So AFOAF just recently ran an A/B on a kilo of A. confusa rootbark... Yields were what was to be expected, and he probably could have gotten even more had he done a few more pulls on each of his jars, but that;s getting beside the point.

My question is THIS:

After the initial Heptane Re-X, he was left with about 5 grams of a brown sludge-y layer at the bottom of his glass vessle after the Heptane was fractioned off, which I'm guessing is STILL quite active in tryptamine compounds.

So how does one go about utilizing this GOO???

Would it be worth while to do another "mini" A/B extraction on the GOO??? (First Acidifying it, by adding maybe 250ml HOT vinegar, and heating the whole mixture up to 125-150 degrees, followed by then a RE-basifification, followed by another 1-2 Heptane pulls???)

Or

Is this brown GOO, the stuff of Changa legend??? (I'm an old school DMT freebase officianado, and am a COMPLETE NOOB in the Changa realm, so would LOVE some direction, if this is the case.) Is this GOO the foundation that one would add either Acetone, or IPA to, and enhance leaf with???

Your advice is GREATLY appreciated

 

[JJ Spigglesworth]

I have found that a mini A/B works very well to clean up yellow goo. some of this is likely DMT-N-oxide (oxidised DMT, yellow oil) but there are no doubt some plant fats in there as well. In my experience a lot of freebase DMT can become trapped in the plant fats decreasing yield.

To remove the plant fats, simply de-fat with naptha after you have dissolved it all in hot vinegar. Then remove the fat-laden naptha, base (solution will become cloudy as DMT precipitates), and extract w naptha untill the aqueous layer is no longer cloudy.

I am also a changa noob, so cant give advice on using the goo for that.

hope this helps!

 

[Parshvik Chintan]

So how does one go about utilizing this GOO???

vaporize... :d

 

[mailorderdiety]

i have used IPA to spread this on calea leaf. it works amazingly well. it is very slow acting compared to straight dmt. it is also more of a body high. So i have just separated the white dmt from the drippy brown goo. I will then smoke a small amount of the brown goo to get potentiated and then keep hitting the white spice.

 

[Hiyo Quicksilver]

Confusa has a LOT of NMT, which is selectively soluble in most solvents we use for DMT extraction. A lot of what you have is "waste" (inert plant oils/solids), but it may well be very active and worth investigating. Though, if you are not wise to the condition and contents of the plant matter and extraction process, it can be unpleasant to go smoking unknown substances. That being said, the dark golden "goo" that comprises the tailing end of confusa extraction is my single favorite substance ever, so do what feels right

 

[Silly(c)One]

Just a note to the OP : changa is not about the DMT, but the harmalas.
You could enhance some leaf with the goo, which might contain much DMT-N-Oxide alongside the NMT mentionned above BTW, but if you don't add harmalas extracted from rue or caapi, it's not changa.
I used to be in love with freebase DMT too, before I met with mother Ayahuasca, but now it seems a bit pointless to me to smoke the DMT on its own.
I love the guidance and control that come with real changa...

I'm not telling you to quit DMT (none of my business), but rather to give real changa a chance
Extracting from rue is not so difficult (just a little time consumming, damn those filterings ) and the yield is so high you don't have to do it often (usually around 4%, and I use half a gram of harmalas to a gram of DMT (1:2), infused on shredded caapi, in order to get the full ayahuasca effect... It's completely different than the usual ratio of 1:4, much more shamanic, maybe a tad less visual, though).

Btw, if that goo is partially made of DMT-N-Oxide, it could be converted back to N,N-DMT with some zinc powder in an acid, then base and extract with naphtha. I guess you could even defat in the acid phase after having filtered out the zinc.
Do a search on "dmt-n-oxide zinc", I think it's even in the wiki...

 

[Parshvik Chintan]

Confusa has a LOT of NMT, which is selectively soluble in most solvents we use for DMT extraction.

[citation needed]

 

[Hiyo Quicksilver]

Confusa has a LOT of NMT, which is selectively soluble in most solvents we use for DMT extraction.

[citation needed]

Funny... In the time it took you to hunt down that link, you could easily have searched for and found dozens of relevant articles on the subject. Here's one to get you started. Happy Trails.

 

[Parshvik Chintan]

Funny... In the time it took you to hunt down that link, you could easily have searched for and found dozens of relevant articles on the subject. Here's one to get you started. Happy Trails.

i don't see anything relating to solubility...
and i know many people have been searching for a way for the kitchen chemist to seperate NMT from DMT with no success...

 

[chocobeastie]

Is this brown GOO, the stuff of Changa legend???

Yes.
Just dissolve it in ethanol or put it on a plate over a pot with some boiling water, the steam will make the goo and oil, add a bit of vodka. mix in your desired herbal blend.
TOO EASY MATE!

Just a note to the OP : changa is not about the DMT, but the harmalas.
You could enhance some leaf with the goo, which might contain much DMT-N-Oxide alongside the NMT mentionned above BTW, but if you don't add harmalas extracted from rue or caapi, it's not changa.

Well, Changa originally never contained extracted harmalas, and contained Ayahuasca vine which works extremely well by itself! I personally do not like extracted harmalas and lots of Changa is made all round the world (in fact most of it as far as I know) without extracted harmalas. Some people do not even add any Ayahuasca vine or leaf!

They still call it Changa, and it still does sortof the same sort of things, but without the benefits of the vine (longer duration, more guided, smoother, nice afterglow etc)

 

[Silly(c)One]

Just a note to the OP : changa is not about the DMT, but the harmalas.
You could enhance some leaf with the goo, which might contain much DMT-N-Oxide alongside the NMT mentionned above BTW, but if you don't add harmalas extracted from rue or caapi, it's not changa.

Well, Changa originally never contained extracted harmalas, and contained Ayahuasca vine which works extremely well by itself! I personally do not like extracted harmalas and lots of Changa is made all round the world (in fact most of it as far as I know) without extracted harmalas. Some people do not even add any Ayahuasca vine or leaf!

They still call it Changa, and it still does sortof the same sort of things, but without the benefits of the vine (longer duration, more guided, smoother, nice afterglow etc)

Not wanting to be a smart ass, but a lot of people being wrong doesn't make them right

I agree that calling DMT enhanced leaf as changa is much more practical...
Ayahuasca vine doesn't work by itself without added harmalas.
It's scientifically impossible and I made a few experiments to prove it. I never got more than 0.5% freebase harmaline from "normal" Ayahuasca (ourinhos, cielo, amarillo), and Gibran2 got 2% from Black Ayahuasca which is known to be extremely potent.
So let's say you're using cielo caapi in your "changa" : for a g of DMT, I'll use a g of shredded vine. How much harmalas are in there ? Let's be kind and say it's a potent one and it has 1% alks, that's 10mg of harmalas for 1000mg of DMT !!!
So let's say you're smoalking 100mg of your "changa", that makes for 50mg DMT and 0.5mg harmaline !
Utterly useless.
And that's using caapi... The concentration of harmalas in passionflower f.e. is at least 10 times inferior to caapi (which is in avg between 4 and 8 times less concentrated than rue).

Now, let's analyze a standard glass of Ayahuasca : 100g caapi and 10g of mimosa. That's 500mg harmalas and 200mg DMT.
That's a ratio of 5:2 in favour of the harmalas.

QED, I believe...

Initially I was making my changa only with caapi and spice, but since I added 0.5g harmaline per g of DMT, everything changed.
"My" changa is really smoked Ayahuasca, "yours" is really DMT enhanced leaf. Which is very fun, but definitely not the same entheogen. I use my changa in ceremonies, DMT enhanced leaf is not really useable that way due to the lack of grounding and guidance. I'm not saying one is better than the other, just that we should differentiate them more.

 

[nen888]

chocobeastie wrote:

DMT enhanced leaf is not really useable that way due to the lack of grounding and guidance.

..i think it's more a matter of head-set here..acacia extract ('dmt'+) is a powerful teacher, but not as forgiving as ayahuasca..

..incidentally..in several tests of acacia dmt 'goos' done by endlessness there was NO DMT-N-Oxide..infact, almost absent from nearly all acacia samples..the oxide can be created by over-basification ..it tastes absolutely awful..you would know it if it's there, it's nothing like NMT..i oxide thing is partial unsubstantiated rumour..

if you don't want to learn from the changing world of Multi-alkaloids many plant teachers choose to blend, then just stick to the 1 or 2 species which are known to be usually just DMT, or else MHRB..

..i think people who want to change NMT into DMT when they're in mixture are either not ready for deeper entheogenic complexities, or don't know how to toke/vaporise efficiently..

50% NMT/DMT can result in incredibly profound breakthroughs, deeper and more 'workable' i would say than just DMT..but, smoked in a changa or enhanced-leaf fashion will not do that..it still does something nice though..

Vaporisation is getting the most efficient effects from the smallest amount of alkaloid..
in some ways i find 'enhanced leaf' both a waste and a cop out to be honest..
.
.

 

[Silly(c)One]

Silly(c)One wrote:

DMT enhanced leaf is not really useable that way due to the lack of grounding and guidance.

..i think it's more a matter of head-set here..acacia extract ('dmt'+) is a powerful teacher, but not as forgiving as ayahuasca..

I have no experience with acacia extract with NMT, only DMT from MHRB.
While I have received teachings from DMT in the past, the more I do it without harmalas, the weirder it gets, and it doesn't seem to get more insightful... But that's just me.

Your post makes me want to get some ACTB for some experiments.
Thank you

 

[chocobeastie]

Ayahuasca vine doesn't work by itself without added harmalas.

Well, Dorje and I, and a helluva lot of people I know, would beg to differ!

It's scientifically impossible and I made a few experiments to prove it. I never got more than 0.5% freebase harmaline from "normal" Ayahuasca (ourinhos, cielo, amarillo), and Gibran2 got 2% from Black Ayahuasca which is known to be extremely potent.
So let's say you're using cielo caapi in your "changa" : for a g of DMT, I'll use a g of shredded vine. How much harmalas are in there ? Let's be kind and say it's a potent one and it has 1% alks, that's 10mg of harmalas for 1000mg of DMT !!!

yes, and like I said in another thread, it only takes micrograms of smoked harmine to effect 50% MAO-A inhibition. That is the magic of Changa.

from this link:

http://www.ayahuasca.com/ayahuasca-overviews/basic-scholar-readings-on-ayahuasca/

SCHWARZ M.J., HOUGHTON P.J., ROSE S., JENNER P., LEES A.D. (2003) Activities of extract and constituents of Banisteriopsis caapi relevant to parkinsonism. Pharmacology, Biochemistry and Behavior, 75: 627-633.
Amazing recent in vitro assessment of MAOI (rat liver) and dopamine (DA) release (from rat striatal slices) activities of a B. caapi extract compared to known industrial MAOIs and pure harmine or harmaline. The caapi extract was shown to be the most selective toward MAO-A (with 15% maximal inhibition of MAO-B vs. 25% and 20% for clorgyline and harmine, respectively) and to surpass the MAO-A inhibition efficacy of pure harmine by at least two orders of magnitude, being efficient, in term of equivalent concentration, in the low picomolar range (where harmine is in the low nanomolar range). DA release was, again, effective with the extract at a dose where harmine and harmaline alone did not significantly increase it. A synergistic effect (not found by McKenna et al. 1984) or the presence of an unknown highly active compound is postulated by the authors. Highly interesting and to be replicated.

and a link to the original study.

Activities of extract and constituents of Banisteriopsis caapi relevant to parkinsonism | Scholars Portal Journals

journals2.scholarsportal.info

"My" changa is really smoked Ayahuasca, "yours" is really DMT enhanced leaf. Which is very fun, but definitely not the same entheogen. I use my changa in ceremonies, DMT enhanced leaf is not really useable that way due to the lack of grounding and guidance. I'm not saying one is better than the other, just that we should differentiate them more.

I find extracted haramalas too heavy and unecessary. Dorje came to the same conclusion. I was the one who first told him about this technique of adding harmalas to Changa. A friend of mine did it and shared it with all his friends and they decided it was too harmala heavy. Nontheless, I thought this info was worth sharing; and Dorje was convinced it was the way to go, but has since changed his mind!

Returning to the light - Changa - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus

Dorje often stresses the "Ayahuasca" element of Changa, however, it is really an evolution in the smoking of DMT - I feel.

 

[chocobeastie]

Yes, Nen makes a good point, the admixtures, the Acacias have their own teachings, have their own guidance and grounding. The thing is, the Ayahuasca presence helps ground the admixture.

A friend, after he vapourised crystal DMT, has even had the DMT communicate to him, in words he could see, say, "where is my caapi?"

At this point, I find working with straight up crystal, even for full breakthrough to be a waste of time. One or two cones in a bong or pipe of 40-50% we find to just be WAY more efficient for DMT breakthrough than using crystal in any form.

Actually the Brazilians are often not using vine in their Changa... weird hey! For them, it seems to be a way of transporting DMT so it doesn't melt, and the alchemical blend of herbs does have its own effect, even without the Ayahuasca. They still call it "Changa" and the only time I have heard of the term "enchanched leaf" is on this forum. Personally, I'm not totally comfortable with people calling it Changa without the addition of Ayahuasca, but whaddaya do?

For Silly to come on and say Changa should only be called Changa with the addition of extracted harmalas... is well... my thesaurus is not working so well today!

btw, Changa came to exist because making a 50/50 blend of Goo and straight up Ayahuasca vine, everyone found this blend to be strong on the Ayahuasca side, and just too strong on every level. so we halved the DMT content and added a few different herbs making it more friendly and accesible. Even still, it became completely obvious the Ayahuasca content at around a third of the herbs used was still heavily effecting the nature of the experience.

 

[Silly(c)One]

Yeah, I always come strong at first

You're right, to each his own, but I and a few others started experimenting with harmala heavy caapi changa and we loved it so much we were amazed nobody was talking about going that way...

Maybe I should call it Ayachanga so as not to confuse people and their expectations

Nonetheless... Guyz, if you haven't tried it, it's worth a shot

 

[Volvox]

Go down this rabbit hole for some answers:

Summary of jungle spice analytical work - Plant Analysis and Substance Testing - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus

 

[Hiyo Quicksilver]

Funny... In the time it took you to hunt down that link, you could easily have searched for and found dozens of relevant articles on the subject. Here's one to get you started. Happy Trails.

i don't see anything relating to solubility...
and i know many people have been searching for a way for the kitchen chemist to seperate NMT from DMT with no success...

I read the information on the wiki. I believe it was on a page with a lot of info on various solvents.

 

[nen888]

..good point about other substances present Hiyo Quicksilver..

and, as you suggest, search and you will find: Psychedelic Compounds Chemical and Physical Properties - DMT-Nexus Wiki

 

[Hiyo Quicksilver]

Thank you for the link! I believe that was the one.