What to do with these?

[jbark]

About 5 yrs ago I was given a bunch of seeds i was told were likely unviable. I poured them into small containers of cactus soil and put them in my seeder under fluorescent grow lights, and lo and behold - hundreds of torch and bridgesii seedlings!! I gave some away and kept about 150, eventually transplnting them into pots (often 4 to a pot). They spent one summer outside, then back to the grow lights for the winter. I split up with my girlfriend at that point, and almost all the seedlings stayed in the basement under the growlights fir nearly 2 yrs. I took a few with me to my new apartment, but, needless to say, the ones that stayed behind etiolated pretty badly.... When I finally moved them to my new place and rotated them indoors by a large window for tge winter and outdoors for the summers on a large balcony, it was too late - they were so badly etiolated that a lot of them grew top heavy and toppled over. The rest grew but stayed pretty thin and only a few grew any significant amounts. The ones I had brought with me originally did quite well - two or three of them are about 2-2.5 inches in diameter and 4 ft tall.

My question is whether or not it is worth chopping down all the etiolated ones and making tea. If, so, what are the perils of slicing them up as is? De-thorning and scraping the green skin from a hundred, thin 6inch to footlong cacti would be tedious at best... Here are some pics of about 30-40 of the etiolated floppy ones and the healthier large ones.

JBArk

 

[Auxin]

At this point I'd stop all watering to get them into dormancy. Once dormant they could be clustered in a cool, lower light position until near the end of winter. After the last frost I'd put them outside and start watering, adjusting them to the strongest sunlight available. ALL summer I would water them 3 times a week, one of those times being high nitrogen fertilizer like the ubiquitous 'grow' fertilizers.
Many of them, the bridgesii especially, would sprout fatter healthy looking pups at the base. The torches would at least get fat at the tops of the stems.
In the fall, 1 month before first hard freeze, stop all watering and around the time of first freeze move them indoors for winter dormancy. The etiolated parts could be cut off then. The torches that didnt basally pup could be cut off at the base and again cut where the stem began fattening up, then kept on a shelf for rooting and planting in the spring. Some people set the cut and calloused stems in dry sand over winter so the base will be covered in root buds, others use an old sock.
Dosing them so heavily with nitrogen will result in the weakest of them to get hit hard by black rot but so what, you've got enough to loose a couple weaklings. The others, getting fed massively in summer and being fully dormant all winter, will finally get fat.
I got a pot grown scop that was so etiolated it was only 1" wide despite being a foot tall. Treating it as above I now have several scops, some of which are thicker than my thigh- and all still in pots. Theyre getting hard to move :lol:

Edit: I love that curtain

 

[jbark]

Auxin - thanks for the advice. I may do this with the healthier of them, but I should have mentioned in the OP that I am also trying to clean house - having a hundred plus cacti take up too much damn room! I have given some of the more robust, smaller ones away, but cringe at the thought of throwing these cacti out... I would like to salvage any mescaline in them, but I don't have days to devote to making a single (questionably active) brew... What are the pros and cons of just cutting them up and brewing them as is, spines and core and flesh and all...?

Cheers,

JBArk

PS - the curtain struck me too, and I had to buy it. Believe it or not, it's IKEA!

 

[jbark]

And then there's this fella - the lone survivor from 5 seedlings. The seeds were planted at the same time as the others so it is 5 yrs old, though it came with me on the first move and was not subjected to almost 2 years under the grow lights. It gets a fair amount of light, but always indoors; I can't bring myself to losing this little guy - as strange as he is - by risking putting him outdoors in direct sunlight and changing meteorological conditions... He has etiolated nevertheless, then burgeoned on the top. I was thinking of replanting and burying the stem piece to see what would happen. He'd look a little more normal, but younger I think (the top bit is maybe an inch in diameter.)

JBArk

 

[Auxin]

I know what you mean about space, my cacti have their own whole bedroom in the winter, and I've taken to bare-rooting them for the winter so they'll fit! :lol:

... What are the pros and cons of just cutting them up and brewing them as is, spines and core and flesh and all...?

Roughly speaking the green skin and the non-core white flesh contain about the same amount of mescaline while the core contains virtually none. People usually remove the core, quarter it the long way and often the flesh will peel right off the core- particularly if the cactus was thirsty. Leaving the spines in wont cause any harm if you trust yourself to filter and decant the brew properly.

 

[Spanishfly]

And then there's this fella - the lone survivor from 5 seedlings. The seeds were planted at the same time as the others so it is 5 yrs old, though it came with me on the first move and was not subjected to almost 2 years under the grow lights. It gets a fair amount of light, but always indoors; I can't bring myself to losing this little guy - as strange as he is - by risking putting him outdoors in direct sunlight and changing meteorological conditions... He has etiolated nevertheless, then burgeoned on the top. I was thinking of replanting and burying the stem piece to see what would happen. He'd look a little more normal, but younger I think (the top bit is maybe an inch in diameter.)

JBArk

That miserable little thing is 5 ??!!!! It obviously has not received much TLC -or just maybe TOO much! - you have said it only gets artificial light, which is nothing like enough.

Some 3 year old flowering adults and some yearlings, which I sent to a grower in the US. They have spent all their lives outdoors in the sun.

And here they are unpotted and ready to go - some nice plump taproots.



And if you have been taking note of Auxin´s advice it is no surprise - cacti need light ALL year round. Keep them dry in winter but give them as much daylight as possible. Growth slows right down to nothing, but the previous summer´s soft green growth will harden and ripen ready for the next year. However, they do not become dormant - I will still see the occasional flower in January. Mine go in a cold frame - when I was growing in the UK I would keep the frost off with a paraffin heater.

PLEASE - give that poor little thing some LIGHT !!!!!!!

 

[jbark]

Spanishfly - the peyote started out under growlights but after less than a year was put by a bright window with a moderate amount of natural light. I thing part of it is etiolation, maybe the rest just down to the fact that I ended up with a weird mutant (?). Do you think repotting it and burying the long bit is a good idea?

JBArk

 

[jbark]

Roughly speaking the green skin and the non-core white flesh contain about the same amount of mescaline while the core contains virtually none. People usually remove the core, quarter it the long way and often the flesh will peel right off the core- particularly if the cactus was thirsty. Leaving the spines in wont cause any harm if you trust yourself to filter and decant the brew properly.

So to your knowledge there is no truth in the notion that the whitish flesh also carries stuff that contribute to body load or digestive problems? That is what i have always heard...

Thanks,

JBArk

 

[Auxin]

Not counting digestive issues I've never heard of white flesh having more body load than green flesh.
Both white and green contain substantial amounts of mucilage (soluble fiber) and the white flesh has more per dose just because a dose takes so much more cactus flesh. The added bulk can cause motility issues in the colon, particularly if the gut is all plugged up with meat and cheese. A diet richer in fruits and vegetables for a few days before could help with that. Also, if the mucilage gets too concentrated in the tea the osmotic properties get reversed and the brew sucks water out of your blood and into your intestine. This gets quite uncomfortable and also may cause dehydration, which could lead to other symptoms more resembling 'body load'.
Many people get gut cramps from cactus tar for that reason.

 

[jbark]

Not counting digestive issues I've never heard of white flesh having more body load than green flesh.
Both white and green contain substantial amounts of mucilage (soluble fiber) and the white flesh has more per dose just because a dose takes so much more cactus flesh. The added bulk can cause motility issues in the colon, particularly if the gut is all plugged up with meat and cheese. A diet richer in fruits and vegetables for a few days before could help with that. Also, if the mucilage gets too concentrated in the tea the osmotic properties get reversed and the brew sucks water out of your blood and into your intestine. This gets quite uncomfortable and also may cause dehydration, which could lead to other symptoms more resembling 'body load'.
Many people get gut cramps from cactus tar for that reason.

You know your stuff.

I guess it was the cramps I was remembering hearing about, though I have never experienced them myself (from either tea or "tar" as you call i - assuming by "tar" you mean the resin residue from an evaporated tea.)

Thanks for all the info. I will definitely be chopping most of them down and throwing them into a pot now, but the less unsightly smaller ones I will pass on to friends.

JBArk

 

[Jees]

... if the mucilage gets too concentrated in the tea the osmotic properties get reversed and the brew sucks water out of your blood and into your intestine. This gets quite uncomfortable and also may cause dehydration,...

I've noticed when downing powder with too less volume of liquid, the following day a hard dung is formed in the intestine, and b/c of that the excretion becomes difficult. Since using more liquid per volume powder, this did not happen anymore. Used to poor the dry powder in mouth (per spoon wise, not all at once) and flush with apple juice, few times till dosage done. Style adopted from Huicholes.

 

[Spanishfly]

Spanishfly - the peyote started out under growlights but after less than a year was put by a bright window with a moderate amount of natural light. I thing part of it is etiolation, maybe the rest just down to the fact that I ended up with a weird mutant (?). Do you think repotting it and burying the long bit is a good idea?

JBArk

Yes I do - naturally just the domed ´button´ is above the surface. I am not sure why it is growing the way it is. Has it fallen out of the pot?
Repot in a well draining mix, preferably with some limestone added - about 20% of crushed eggshell or seashell makes a good substitute. Mexican desert cacti grow amongst masses of limestone.

Make sure there is some room for the taproot to grow downwards. And give it as much daylight as possible!!!