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What would it take to make it legal?

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Musiek

Musiek

Rising Star
The worst thing about DMT in my opinion is its legal status.

I would like to share this amazing experience with everyone I know, but I can't and that really bums me out.

So what would it actually take to make it legal, let's say in the U.S or in Australia?

i.e. What sort of social change would be required? Research and evidence? Legislative process? Time-span?

If it's ever going to happen I imagine the NEXUS would play vital role in it... so let's get this discussion goin right? 😁
 
obliguhl said:
So what would it actually take to make it legal, let's say in the U.S or in Australia?
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30+ years and the UN voting in favour of an end on the war on drugs, a high userbase and proven medical benefits. So: never.

but I can't
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Of course you can.
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Well there's certainly an increasing user-base so that's one thing.

And although DMT doesn't show much potential for medicinal use, it (and its analogues) do however show plenty of potential for therapeutic use and also (if I dare say..) they're a fantastic tool for spiritual development. So that's another thing.

I'm not all that optimistic on the UN voting in favour of a total end on the war on drugs any time soon... But I am optimistic on the end on the war on some drugs. Slowly... and one at a time. I mean look at what's happening with marijuana? And all the new developments happening with MDMA research... I'd like to think that somewhere down this line, waiting patiently for us is DMT.
 
Musiek said:
i.e. What sort of social change would be required? Research and evidence? Legislative process? Time-span?
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rick doblin said:
The biggest breakthrough that we’ve been able to experience recently is
this bridge to the military. The other key factor is the FDA. The FDA
has, from the mid-60s through the 70s and 80s, squashed psychedelic
research and then exported that attitude all over the world. Starting in
1990 a new group of people at the FDA took control over psychedelic
research and they decided to put science over politics. The FDA has been
pretty much an ally, not in favor of medical marijuana or in favor of
psychedelic research, but in favor of science over politics.

psychedelicfrontier.com

My Interview with Rick Doblin, Psychedelic Pioneer - Psychedelic Frontier

I recently had the good fortune of meeting my psychedelic hero, Rick Doblin, the founder and president of the Multidisciplinary Association of Psychedelic Studies. What’s more, he graciously agreed to an on-camera interview. I asked him about the origins of MAPS, the Russian ban of methadone in...
psychedelicfrontier.com psychedelicfrontier.com
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It is very possible that it could be legal at some point in the future.

MAPS is stating that they are hopeful to have psychedelic clinics open by the year 2021.

The conversation has started and doors are opening. The war on drugs has proven unsuccessful.

These clinics would be utilizing MDMA, LSD, Ibogaine, medical marijuana, and Ayahuasca assisted psychotherapy.

If your interested in learning more about this check out this link to MAPS --> Our Research - Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies - MAPS
 
Musiek said:
The worst thing about DMT in my opinion is its legal status.

I would like to share this amazing experience with everyone I know, but I can't and that really bums me out.
Click to expand...

I do so much agree with you here Musiek.

Just as a small anecdote I joined a group recently which meets up and discusses a few topics each week. I chose as a topic "Should psychedelics be legal?". I started off with a look at drugs, such as alcohol and tobacco, which are legal but cause a lot of harm. I then went on to drugs such as heroine and cocaine which are illegal and cause a lot of harm. And finally came onto psychedelics which are illegal but don't cause harm in most cases. I outlined how many could be using for healing in one way or the other and even ventured into the area of "understanding oneself".

I don't think I could have received a more outraged response than if I'd been advocating child rape or something. These were normal, intelligent people. Their reaction was "of course these substances cause harm", "people take them and go crazy", "people take them and jump off high buildings", "people take them and turn into useless individuals in society".

I have an ex-partner who, having had a rough period three years ago, is now hooked on legal pharmaceuticals which have horrendous side effects. I have a friend who, having suffered some awful traumas in childhood, has come out as a beautiful and balanced individual full of life and self understanding after six sessions with 5-meo-dmt.

The whole thing makes me very sad.
 
NotTwo said:
I don't think I could have received a more outraged response than if I'd been advocating child rape or something. These were normal, intelligent people. Their reaction was "of course these substances cause harm", "people take them and go crazy", "people take them and jump off high buildings", "people take them and turn into useless individuals in society".
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That's what's happens when the masses are content to allow others to tell them what to think, without a second thought. And I suppose that perhaps I may have turned into a useless member of society as well, if being a member of society includes materialism, and social programming, and generally not giving a shit about anything but myself and how much money I can make. I'm just no longer interested in that sort of thing..
 
The only way I see DMT legal is if the war on drugs ends completely, like obliguhl mentioned.
Otherwise, not anytime soon.

I can see Ayahuasca, LSD or Psilocybin being legalised in therapeutic settings in 10 or more years, but recreational DMT in freebase form use? I don't think so.
I don't see any particular therapeutic benefits in smoking DMT for conditions like depression, general anxiety etc. It's hard for research to prove that a confusing 5-10 minute experience about alien-like entities showing you impossible objects carries real benefits for these kinds of patients.
Ayahuasca (or LSD/Psylocibin) on the other hand, is another topic. I can see Aya retreats in a strictly controlled setting being made legal in the US and other countries without major problems.
 
JustATourist said:
I don't see any particular therapeutic benefits in smoking DMT for conditions like depression, general anxiety etc. It's hard for research to prove that a confusing 5-10 minute experience about alien-like entities showing you impossible objects carries real benefits for these kinds of patients.
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I would respectfully disagree with you there friend. I personally have issues with a mental illness that includes depression as a symptom. The afterglow of a dmt trip ive found has the same effect on my mood as an lsd or mushroom trip. And it lasted for weeks. Even my husband noticed a dramatic difference. For someone who is used to feeling worthless and torn down, its a big deal.
Especially since dmt challenges beliefs and preconcieved notions and helps chip away at ones ego, which i would have to say is what keeps a lot of people depressed. Not only was it a very spiritual experience, it healed me ever so slightly and i feel like future trips could have even more of a positive effect.
Plus you cant really generalize dmt trips like that. No two are the same though they may have similarities.
 
Stronger memes - The likes of which spark curiosity about psychedelics in as large a set of the population as possible with as simple, accurate, and thought inducing language available.

^^^ Unlike that sentence :|
 
Lizz said:
JustATourist said:
I don't see any particular therapeutic benefits in smoking DMT for conditions like depression, general anxiety etc. It's hard for research to prove that a confusing 5-10 minute experience about alien-like entities showing you impossible objects carries real benefits for these kinds of patients.
Click to expand...
I would respectfully disagree with you there friend. I personally have issues with a mental illness that includes depression as a symptom. The afterglow of a dmt trip ive found has the same effect on my mood as an lsd or mushroom trip. And it lasted for weeks. Even my husband noticed a dramatic difference. For someone who is used to feeling worthless and torn down, its a big deal.
Especially since dmt challenges beliefs and preconcieved notions and helps chip away at ones ego, which i would have to say is what keeps a lot of people depressed. Not only was it a very spiritual experience, it healed me ever so slightly and i feel like future trips could have even more of a positive effect.
Plus you cant really generalize dmt trips like that. No two are the same though they may have similarities.
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I agree
 
Musiek said:
And although DMT doesn't show much potential for medicinal use, it (and its analogues) do however show plenty of potential for therapeutic use and also (if I dare say..) they're a fantastic tool for spiritual development. So that's another thing.
Click to expand...

What are you talking about? I use smoked DMT to kill my cluster headaches. LSD prevents them all together. Thats just one facet of medicinal use.
Sumatriptan is a DMT analogue
 
NotTwo said:
Musiek said:
The worst thing about DMT in my opinion is its legal status.

I would like to share this amazing experience with everyone I know, but I can't and that really bums me out.
Click to expand...

I do so much agree with you here Musiek.

Just as a small anecdote I joined a group recently which meets up and discusses a few topics each week. I chose as a topic "Should psychedelics be legal?". I started off with a look at drugs, such as alcohol and tobacco, which are legal but cause a lot of harm. I then went on to drugs such as heroine and cocaine which are illegal and cause a lot of harm. And finally came onto psychedelics which are illegal but don't cause harm in most cases. I outlined how many could be using for healing in one way or the other and even ventured into the area of "understanding oneself".

I don't think I could have received a more outraged response than if I'd been advocating child rape or something. These were normal, intelligent people. Their reaction was "of course these substances cause harm", "people take them and go crazy", "people take them and jump off high buildings", "people take them and turn into useless individuals in society".

...The whole thing makes me very sad.
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This is exactly the sort of thing I'm getting at. The stigma surrounding psychedelics is so strong that it's difficult to know where and how to start peeling away at it. In my experience the reaction contrary to psychedelics is usually so overwhelming that it instantly closes the door to any rational discussion about them.

Some of the most meaningful, loving, innocent and creative experiences of my life have been a result of psychedelics and yes it is sad and bizarre that it is so difficult to speak openly about them.

I totally agree that we need;
Stronger memes - The likes of which spark curiosity about psychedelics in as large a set of the population as possible with as simple, accurate, and thought inducing language available.
Click to expand...
 
Muskogee Herbman said:
Musiek said:
And although DMT doesn't show much potential for medicinal use, it (and its analogues) do however show plenty of potential for therapeutic use and also (if I dare say..) they're a fantastic tool for spiritual development. So that's another thing.
Click to expand...

What are you talking about? I use smoked DMT to kill my cluster headaches. LSD prevents them all together. Thats just one facet of medicinal use.
Sumatriptan is a DMT analogue
Click to expand...

I feel like the spiritual aspect is important as well. More and more people seem to be awakening, and as they do, you'll see a larger and larger segment of society become tolerant of this stuff.
 
Muskogee Herbman said:
Musiek said:
And although DMT doesn't show much potential for medicinal use, it (and its analogues) do however show plenty of potential for therapeutic use and also (if I dare say..) they're a fantastic tool for spiritual development. So that's another thing.
Click to expand...

What are you talking about? I use smoked DMT to kill my cluster headaches. LSD prevents them all together. Thats just one facet of medicinal use.
Sumatriptan is a DMT analogue
Click to expand...

Was not aware of that. That is awesome :thumb_up:

So, so far DMT is kicking these goals:

> Increasing user-base (Can't argue with this...)
> Therapeutic potential (In the form of Ayahuasca AND smoked DMT)
> Medicinal Benefits (i.e cluster headaches, DMT analogues like Sumatriptan etc)
> Tool for self discovery and spiritual development
 
DmnStr8 said:
It is very possible that it could be legal at some point in the future.

MAPS is stating that they are hopeful to have psychedelic clinics open by the year 2021.

The conversation has started and doors are opening. The war on drugs has proven unsuccessful.

These clinics would be utilizing MDMA, LSD, Ibogaine, medical marijuana, and Ayahuasca assisted psychotherapy.

If your interested in learning more about this check out this link to MAPS --> Our Research - Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies - MAPS
Click to expand...

Thanks man :thumb_up:

I've only recently started following the great work MAPS has been doing. Joe Rogan just did another podcast with Rick Doblin, haven't finished it yet but they talk about some pretty awesome progress regarding MDMA therapy.

It is pretty surreal following this stuff - it's hard to imagine Ayahuasca/MDMA/LSD etc clinics becoming legal and (I hope eventually) an accepted thing.

Makes me happy :d
 
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