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What would sceptics say about DMT?

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obliguhl

Rising Star
Senior Member
OG Pioneer
...after smoking their first dose? Imagine them beeing more or less "anti drug", thinking of it as something like cocaine, treating your psychedelic ramblings as the talk of a derranged drug freak.

What would they say? Imagine them beeing open minded enough to see for themselves.

I think it would be:

"Oh...this is IT? I'm so sorry man, i..had no clue...!"

Then a deep hug would follow and the feeling of completness.
 
It would probably be something like this:

Step 1, Denial:
Nah, this can't be happening to me, drugs should be bad, don't they?

Step 2, Anger:
G*d*peep*, why did this happen to me? why didn't SOMEONE show me THIS earlier? Grmbl...

Step 3, Bargaining:
Ok, so there is this thing called DMT...But please allow me to get this into perspective. Something must be wrong, right?

Step 4, Depression:
Ooohhhhhhwwww, this is horrible. all those years being a skeptic.... wasted.... I feel so sad now....

Sep 5, Acceptance:
Since I had this profound experience I can just as well search the DMT-Nexus on how to make my own batch...

:D
 
I think they would have a horrible time facing all their own demons, then defend their egos by declaring it the devil's work.
Especially because you'd have to give it to them without their knowledge!

Maybe some would change their perspectives as a result of their ordeal, as can happen with a near death experience, but they would be more resistant than with an NDE because of their anti-drug stance.
 
P.s. SWIM was sceptical about psychs, until he smoked salvia. That made him think that there might be something in these things, but while hoping for the best from ayawaska he was actually still sceptical about it. He was more than pleasantly surprised! So, SWIM was a moderate sceptic and you all know what he says about DMT now.
 
I watched a skeptic once eat a big handfull of mushrooms(by his own choice)...and he completely freaked out..he was a big drinker...hated philosophy and such, basically a meathead..it did not change him, he couldn't stop freaking out for even 2 minutes to sit still and watch his visions..he was screaming and swearing and running around in the woods...

I dunno what spice would do to these type of people..but like say, I would love to trip with my mother, she's into spiritualist stuff, like sylvia brown lol..but if she sat and drank aya with me I think she would go nuts.. People like that need to go down to peru or something for that and participate in a retreat in my opinion..if at all. Even my own brother was able to stare into the psilocybin "clockworks" as he called it, and forget it all a few days later..well he doesnt really deny these things though, just wont go back anymore becasue he tried to eat something like 5 grams on a pizza one day and see a movie..him and his freinds all got freaked out and went seperate ways, his freinds mother calling us asking why B was lying on the floor naked with his dog, not responding to her!

I think the older people get and the more set in they're ways they are the more ridgid the programming is and forcing it to shatter like that can be devistating to the ego. They lose the reference point and run back to the old imprint..unless it's done slowly in the right setting over a series of experiences. This prob is not true for all cases though.
 
Personally DMT has made SWIM more skeptical then ever. Why? Because all you need to do is take a little bit of this neurotransmitter and your entire world view goes haywire. People see gods, beings, demons, whatever. That suggests to me that all religious experience and mystical experience can be explained by neurotransmitters in the brain going haywire such as during schizophrenia or the other host of mental illnesses out there. Basically DMT confirmed SWIMs atheism.
 
That does not detract from the reality of the matter. Objectively, keep in mind that the experience of "Being" is incredibly common; meditation leads to it, all psychedelic drugs lead to it, having a good life leads to this same realisation.
 
^^Yes and that experience is also a result of altered neurotransmitter levels. All subjective experience can be correlated to something going on in the brain.

My main objection is that people take such experiences to mean there is something more something beyond matter or confirmation of a soul. I think its the opposite. I think it shows that our entire subjective reality is a result of what goes on in our brain and that there is an objective reality out there even if we only perceive parts of it with our 5 senses. We know there is more through science.
 
Oh no, not this again!
Swim is not sure about ANYTHING. And he believes, that he can never be sure of anything. It's ridiciolus.
He treats every experience as what he believes it is: Experience.

But interesting, how the word "sceptic " got interpreted. I was thinking of someone who believes that "all drugs are basically bad"...not someone with a somehow hardwired worldview. They'd propably freak out to the point of insanity or forced to re-think their values.
 
Ah someone who thinks all drugs are bad could react either way. They might like it and find out drugs aren't all that bad or they might freak out.

I took the word skeptic to mean someone who is skeptical of supernatural beliefs.
 
haha, when people tell me they dont need drugs I tell them to stop eating for a week..and see how they feel..we are walking chemical reactions...

This is why I think that in alot of cases talk therapy for things like anxiety is bullshit if they deny the chemical side of the equations...look what seratonin depletion does to people..Id like to see them talk through that. I take cappi every day now becasue I know how I feel if I dont..beats pharma SSRI's.

When I found out I was allergic to dairy, which is where I got lots of my brain "drugs", and stopped eating it I could tell something was going wrong, and I wasnt eating meat so there was a big problem..eating lots of turkey and cappi micro doses fixes that..so yes, drugs are good. Just tell them that.
 
Interesting about these Caapi micro doses, thanks for the reminder!

I can't imagine force-feeding DMT to for example Bush would help him or anybody... he wouldn't break through because of resistance and excessive fear levels :cry:
 
obliguhl said:
Oh no, not this again!
Swim is not sure about ANYTHING. And he believes, that he can never be sure of anything. It's ridiciolus.
He treats every experience as what he believes it is: Experience.

F'n right! Right on man.

Thats exactly how SWIM feels. He's been down both paths. He is currently a 4th year physics major, but also travels when he can, and has gotten to see a great deal in regards to the spiritualistic route and the objective scientific route.

Even through all the lectures, books, science journals/articles, first hand objective studies, SWIM is still open to alot of possibilities. And at the end of the day he isn't too sure on either or.

SWIM will take the series of experiences called "life" and run with it and never look back.

We know so little.
 
obliguhl said:
...after smoking their first dose? Imagine them beeing more or less "anti drug", thinking of it as something like cocaine, treating your psychedelic ramblings as the talk of a derranged drug freak.

What would they say? Imagine them beeing open minded enough to see for themselves.

I think it would be:

"Oh...this is IT? I'm so sorry man, i..had no clue...!"

Then a deep hug would follow and the feeling of completness.


.... that would be far too easy.
 
obliguhl,

I love this thread! Just a few short months ago SWIM used to be a hard-core, stone-cold, dyed-in-the-wool, card-carrying (literally!) skeptic. DMT has changed her and is continuing to do so.

Traveler, I loved your post. It was hilarious, but as they say, "It's funny because it's true!"

burnt, Yeah, I feel you man. SWIM is someone who insists on empirical and/or experiential data to engender anything resembling "belief." She understands in what is left of her "rational mind" that these profound and divine experiences are produced by her act of introducing high doses an exogenous neurotransmitter into her brain which has receptors and active transport for what is in fact an endogenous neurotransmitter. Yet she's had some outrageously profound "more real than real" experiences in hyperspace that are starting to change her. She didn't think anything could. She is in her 40's and has been stuck in her atheistic and skeptical ways since she was 12!

SWIM always thought of herself as skeptical but open-minded. Again, experiential evidence . . .

Weird things started happening right away. SWIM lives for and creates the weird, but this was weirder . . .She questioned her sanity, but she was too old, experienced and stable . . . she began to encouter wonderful and magical things in hyperspace and there was a bit of a leak-through effect to consensual reality. She has just begun a process of what feels like profound and deep healing.

She is still OFF the drugs. She has decided that her usual 2x per year alcohol consumption pattern (Thanksgiving & her Bday) is too much. She is even off of Advil and Glucosamine/Chondritin . . .

So, things are changing for SWIM. She is not quite sure what to believe anymore. She remains utterly convinced that consciousness survives the death of our physical bodies. She NEVER thought anything could ever convince her of this. It was worms all the way down.

At an absolute minimum, her mind/consciousness is infinitely vast and creative. And I do not trifle when I use a word like INFINITE. She always thought it was a maximum of four to 20 terrabytes up there. No, no, no, no, no. There are realms and areas to the unconscious that are deeper and wider than she could have ever imagined, that contain content she is convinced she could never come up with in her most creative moment, her most psychotic moment, her most intoxicated moment, etc. . . .At age 41, she thought she had the right to say she knew herself . . .

What would a skeptic say? SWIM used to be skeptical. Her husband still is. She says, "See the Traveler's post! No, seriously, I am no longer completely skeptical. I continue to be surprised at the depth and profoundness of my conversion!"

Peace & Love,
Pandora
 

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The Traveler said:
It would probably be something like this:

Step 1, Denial:
Nah, this can't be happening to me, drugs should be bad, don't they?

Step 2, Anger:
G*d*peep*, why did this happen to me? why didn't SOMEONE show me THIS earlier? Grmbl...

Step 3, Bargaining:
Ok, so there is this thing called DMT...But please allow me to get this into perspective. Something must be wrong, right?

Step 4, Depression:
Ooohhhhhhwwww, this is horrible. all those years being a skeptic.... wasted.... I feel so sad now....

Sep 5, Acceptance:
Since I had this profound experience I can just as well search the DMT-Nexus on how to make my own batch...

:D

But to the sounds to year 2010 theme song.
 
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