Where are we?

[URBY]

Its funny though when you ask people here in "reality" what this place is, there's no definitive answer either. Seems like any reality we wake up in, someone somewhere would rather us figure it out on our own, or not figure it out at all. Or maybe we aren't supposed to be asking questions.

I will give a definitive answer. I would put a link for it here if I knew how. It is a post titled "consensus realities" I made a short while back.

Granted that definitive answer is my opinion. It may not be yours. Maybe there is a consensus opinion on the subject that a number of travelers here in the nexus could share that you would like more.

Either way I welcome any questions

 

[PinkiePie]

Science has already proven that the apparent solidity of reality is illusory, and that everything can be interpreted as pure energy. It's not too great a leap to start looking at it all as pure thought. If it is pure energy, and that energy is conscious, then that's an easy conclusion to arrive at.

The notion of this being a place for having a rich variety of experiences, of it being a place for growth... That's more or less what I get from it all.

Nonetheless, I believe that life here in this reality is something that must be taken seriously, embraced, lived to the fullest. We don't know what happens when we die, so it's probably pretty unhealthy to crave an end to this life so we can go into hyperspatial paradise. If there is such a thing, it's a thing we can only arrive at when we are ready, so a rushed exit from life as we know it probably would be a major setback for anyone wanting to graduate to any hypothetical next level.

This is almost perfect, well put Guyomech. I read a really interesting piece on the universe feeling itself subjectively. It may not be true, as it puts what some may feel an overly humorous spin on things, but it is as credible as any other belief I have found so far. Also, it's by Alan Watts, so hopefully at least Blackdust will enjoy it.

I'll post the link (He doesn't use God in the contemporary sense, he means it more in a existential sense, as in the universe as a whole):

http://wedietorememberwhatwelivetoforget.com/AlanWatts.html

It's a little lengthy for the layman, but well worth it.

I'd also like to mention that Global had a great point on the consistency of this reality. For me, that is the deciding factor that this world is separate from the dream realm. Although who is to say that consistency itself is not an illusion. That is why this questions are so hard to answer. You have to find a definitive truth and then use that to measure and proportion the realms of existence. Like Descartes' angelic dream. However, to my knowledge there is no absolute truth that we can use to measure anything in other realms.

In this reality we base our knowledge off of arithmetic, which is only proven valid through more arithmetic, so whether or not it is valid is a matter of perception. Though the general consensus is that it is valid, mainly because applied arithmetic gives us fancy toys to manipulate our environment (e.g. technology). Though this empirical base model is utterly useless in hyperspace or other realms. Our sense are often illusions, there is not enough consistency to use any experimental model, and often in deep states of DMT or dreams the last thing on someones mind is to start testing the world around them for a predictable model of behavior.

Though, with over seven billion people on the Earth, each with endless creative potential, I think we could eventually determine a valid and reliable model for exploration of different states of consciousness. As a community of psychonautic pioneers I think this should be our highest priority (after safety and ethics). If anyone has good ideas I'd be thrilled to hear them.

Honor-bound,
Pinkie Pie

 

[Guyomech]

Here in this apparently primary reality, we encounter other people, interact with them, get to know them. But we really don't know the whole person- we only know the parts of themselves that they've shown us. When we encounter that same person in a dream, we will likely not have any interactions with them deeper than the ones we've had in waking life- because we don't know them well enough to model or simulate their behavior beyond what we already know about them. I believe that our minds are capable of modeling others in great detail. Once you know someone pretty well, you can have a hypothetical conversation with them in your mind, having some sense of how you think they'd respond. In dreams, I believe we are doing this but a more complete and graphic version. Our minds are very capable of modeling and predicting the behavior of others... Not with total accuracy, of course, but with enough detail to be convincing in a dream. So there's a really good chance that the other individuals we interact with in dreams are actually models we have built of them, simulations. If you are a fan of Occam's razor, this is a more likely possibility than the idea that we are actually encountering these folks in our dreams.

 

[mjc490]

Guyomech -
I would have to say I am almost sure that the people in my dreams are not simulations, or models I have built on them based on waking life interactions and memories. Like I said, I remember my dreams better than I remember yesterday. I have "days upon days" worth of dream memories with these people, and I can surely say that they appear to be as real as they are in waking life. I go and have rich, full experiences and conversations with these people in my dreams. Do you remember your dreams well enough to remember your interactions with these people?

I would have to say some of the most interesting people in my dreams are ones that are not from my waking life. They will pop up out of no where and help me out or give me needed information. Some people I have never met before in waking life, that are in my dreams, are some of the most important people of my dreams.

 

[universecannon]

Here in this apparently primary reality, we encounter other people, interact with them, get to know them. But we really don't know the whole person- we only know the parts of themselves that they've shown us. When we encounter that same person in a dream, we will likely not have any interactions with them deeper than the ones we've had in waking life- because we don't know them well enough to model or simulate their behavior beyond what we already know about them. I believe that our minds are capable of modeling others in great detail. Once you know someone pretty well, you can have a hypothetical conversation with them in your mind, having some sense of how you think they'd respond. In dreams, I believe we are doing this but a more complete and graphic version. Our minds are very capable of modeling and predicting the behavior of others... Not with total accuracy, of course, but with enough detail to be convincing in a dream. So there's a really good chance that the other individuals we interact with in dreams are actually models we have built of them, simulations. If you are a fan of Occam's razor, this is a more likely possibility than the idea that we are actually encountering these folks in our dreams.

i agree that probably does happen..although IMO that doesn't really come cloose explaining it all. Just one example is the phenomenon of meeting someone in a dream and then meeting them the next day for the first time in real life. I've had this many times and there are scores of accounts like this all over the place

 

[Guyomech]

I understand what you're both saying, definitely. Dream experiences can be incredibly rich and prescient. This can be explained via these different possibilities:

1) We are so incredibly rich and complex ourselves, and so inextricably linked to the multidimensional network of events, experiences and synchronistic interconnections in the reality we are embedded within, that the dreams we generate within our cranial sensorium are capable of delivering surprising levels of clairvoyance;

2) During the dream state, we actually travel outside of ourselves somehow, and into a larger shared dream realm.

Although I tend to favor choice #1 (Occam's razor, again) I am not opposed to choice #2. My question for MJC490 and Universecannon is: How does this work, in terms of physics? What aspect of physical reality facilitates this ability? I am fully aware that our sciences are incomplete and there could potentially be hidden energy systems or whatnot that we are unaware of. And I will always keep an open mind. What I am suggesting here is that, for the moment, we view this problem from a reductionist angle.

 

[Inner Paths]

I find it really strange that I can encounter complete strangers in my dreams and get to know aspects of their personality just like I can in waking life (though, the strangers in the dream could just be archetypes of typical personas bubbling up from the subconsciousness, like some of the ones Jung proposes in his archetypes theory). I have also had a few dreams where I have been in a place I have never been before and then, later on in waking life, will find myself in that very place that I dreamed of earlier (though again, that place may have unconsciously entered my mind from a television holiday show or magazine, etc).

I tend to treat reality as subjective, as in what I am experiencing in the hear and now. When i am dreaming that is also my reality at the time. It seems like reality is multifaceted and multi-leveled. The different states of consciousness you are in (be it consensus reality, hyperspace or dreaming) might just be different view points of the same core, fundamental reality.

I like the well played out analogy of the radio picking up various different stations, the fundamental radio waves (core reality) are always there, it just depends on what frequency the antenna (the human mind/ consciousness) is tuned to. Because consensus reality is the station I am tuned to most often, that shall be the one I place primary focus on. Flipping to different stations just lets me appreciate how big and mysterious reality really is.

So to me, consensus reality isn't so much an illusion, than it is just a different aspect or reflection of the deeper reality that lies beneath our everyday surface of waking life.

 

[daveyboy91]

I believe dreams are a different but very real reality, just this reality is all in order so it seems logical to us.

In dreams you live in the present moment, and you don't worry about the past or the future, isnt that what many of us in this reality strive for? to live in the present moment?

I do not fear death, live life to your potential as nobody really knows what this reality is.

 

[mjc490]

Guyomech-

How does this work, in terms of physics? I have no idea . Here I am speaking more on the outer layer, the overall concept of whats going on, not the specifics of it.

I really do like your approach though and have, and continue to, consider that every day. If we really are creating our own dreams, then we are greatly more wonderful beings than I show appreciation for.

I really don't hold down one idea over another when it comes to these questions. I think we're all just reaching for something that can't be fully reached for at this moment.

In the end, if we get a real answer, then I think we'll find that we were all trying to describe the same thing, just using different "languages" and phrases to describe it.

InnerPathsToOuterSpace and daveyboy91
From InnerPath's post - "I tend to treat reality as subjective, as in what I am experiencing in the hear and now. When i am dreaming that is also my reality at the time."

From daveyboy's post - "In dreams you live in the present moment, and you don't worry about the past or the future"

Isn't that wonderful how the dream becomes your reality, and (unless you become lucid), you really have no memory or concern for this life here? You live in the present moment, as your environment shifts miraculously around you and people pop up here and there. In a dream its like you have no long term memory. You just constantly roll with whats going on, without questioning it, no matter how ridiculous it can get. That's why living in the present here is so great, if you pull it off, you feel free.

 

[Guyomech]

MJC: I am certainly open to the real answer being perhaps a combination of the two that I proposed... Nonetheless, I do think that we are greatly more wonderful beings than any of us suspect. When you realize the sheer quantity of parts that we are made of, going down to the subatomic level, and imagine the amount of living, dynamic information that can be carried is such an immense biological structure... It boggles the mind.

 

[URBY]

What if:

These "dreams" are other "dimensions/realities" that you are projecting your conscious, energy body into. The people you meet there could be native to that "reality" or maybe a passer by such as yourself.

If you are not already doing so, I say you should start asking the beings you come across if they can tell you where you might be. Expect a strange answer. Then ask what time the train leaves, always brings a good laugh.

Either way, Im not you so this is all I can really suggest.

 

[wage.]

Does anyone ever take drugs in a dream and feel a powerful placebo effect? I'm constantly on auto-pilot in dreams so I'm guessing my subconscious or something else is doing a lot of the decision making.

In a dream last night, I was offered pure Amphetamine and decided to smoke it in a pipe. it was near identical to when I had smoked amphetamine in real life. I felt the Euphoria, Alertness, Clarity and started socializing in my dream.

Another time I took an Ecstasy Tablet in a dream and felt similar effects to when I had tried MDMA.

Like I've said earlier in the thread, I see Psilocybin Mushrooms in my dreams at least once a month. I've never taken them in a dream though.

 

[WarriorSage]

What if:

These "dreams" are other "dimensions/realities" that you are projecting your conscious, energy body into. The people you meet there could be native to that "reality" or maybe a passer by such as yourself.

If you are not already doing so, I say you should start asking the beings you come across if they can tell you where you might be. Expect a strange answer. Then ask what time the train leaves, always brings a good laugh.

Either way, Im not you so this is all I can really suggest.

Good advice!
Also ask,

“Who are you?”
“Who am I?”
“Why are you here?”
“Why are you acting the way you are?”
“What do you have to tell me?”
“Why is this happening?”
“What do you want from me?”
“What questions do you have to ask me?”
“What do I most need to know?”
“What can I do for you?”
“What can you do for me?”

 

[mjc490]

Wage -

Yes, I've taken drugs in dreams, and yes they do work . I wake up feeling a fleeting feeling of the drug leaving me.

URBY and Warriorsage-
Thanks for the input on questions while in the dream. I'll be sure to ask the next people I have in my dreams these types of questions. It's funny how the answers are always vague or complex. Why don't these people just give it to me honestly?

 

[Guyomech]

That elusive vagueness you get in the answers from these entities... Many people experience this, both with hyperspace entities and with dream inhabitants, and I think that could be a sign that these conversations are in fact your mind doing crazy gymnastics with itself. You might get profound unsolicited statements, but replies to questions are either so obvious as to be empty, or posed as enigmatic riddles. Do you ever experience much more solid 2-way communication with dream entities?

 

[mescaline-man]

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