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Why did you stop smoking DMT ?

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Since the late 1990s, I've been an occasional user of psychedelics. I've tried LSA, psilocybin, N2O, mescaline, and, late last year, DMT.

My main reason for taking psychedelics has always been personal insight. Mostly I'm interested in learning more about myself. But I am also a bit curious from a scientific perspective about how the mind works in general, particularly what is called the "subconscious". And of course, "how the universe works", if that is possible to know.

A few years back, I read Strassman's Spirit Molecule book (about DMT). What I read was interesting, but I didn't think I would ever have a chance to try DMT. Then I learned, from another board I am on, that DMT is actually quite easy to make. So I read more about people's experiences with DMT. Based on reports, particularly by Leary, I thought it was something very similar to other psychedelic drugs, but much shorter acting. The idea of being able to have a quick trip really appealed to me, because my preferred psychedelic (psilocybin) required setting aside at least a day. So I set about extracting some DMT last November.

But it just didn't seem to be working out for me. I've never smoked, so the idea and mechanics of smoking DMT seemed strange and unnatural to me. I was getting tiny doses that basically just made colors change (everything looked yellow). When I was finally successful getting a larger dose, it caught me off guard. I still had my eyes open, and felt like everything was in front of my eyes at once and was torn into small pieces. Then I got a scale and learned better inhalation techniques. I had some trips which were much more pleasant. However, it seemed I had a hard time bringing much in the way of useful insights back from these trips. They happened so fast that it was hard to keep my objectives in mind during the trip, and they didn't last long enough to allow much thinking. Then in early January, I had a very frightening trip, which left me "shell shocked" and somewhat depressed for about six weeks. At that time, I thought I never wanted to use DMT again, but I was not going to make any rush decisions. I decided a would wait a couple months, then think over the risks and benefits and make my decision. I decided that, for me, the risks outweighed the benefits. The biggest risk I found is that it is possible to be totally disoriented on a DMT trip. I could potentially screem, risking legal problems since I live in an apartment, or accidentally injure myself while disoriented from the trip. While I realize that this is probably also a danger with other substances, I've never had a case where I completely forgot I was on a drug or felt I was in danger due to disorientation with any of the other substances I had tried. The second largest risk I found was physical. While DMT won't physically kill you, it, more than any other psychedelic I've read about, tends increase heart rate. I think its possible to "die from fright" on DMT by having a heart attack. I wouldn't parachute jump or ride a huge roller coaster at my age (I'm in my 40's), and I think the risk from DMT is probably comparable. Finally, I didn't see that many benefits. I gained far more insights using other substances, and they didn't seem nearly as harsh either.

So I made my decision, converted my remaining DMT to a soluble salt, and washed it down the drain. That was a little over a month ago. I won't use DMT again unless I can address the above risks and determine additional benefits that outweigh the risks. I do plan to continue using other substances, although I am also taking a break from them in the short term.

I'm still very interested in reading about what others learn from DMT; I just don't think it is for me personally. Its kind of like - I might be very interested in what astronauts see from aboard the International Space Station, but that doesn't mean I would necessarily want to be an astronaut myself. I will be at the MAPS conference next week and do plan on attending the presentations on DMT.

elphologist
 
I'm not gunna lie, DMT scares the hell out of me.

While it's not the main reason I've stopped it certainly is a large contributor.

I've always known when my body had enough of something. My friends would always question me when I said I'd had enough marry-j for the day. They thought I was crazy. The truth is I hit a certain point after smoking it and my body knows it's enough to get the job done. If I take more then it usually kills the whole experience.

Same goes for DMT in a way. I feel like I've gotten from it what I can and it's time to move on. If and ever another calling is felt then I will smoke it again later. I think the best thing I got out of it was a new perception of life. If anything, it's made the mystery a little more complicated. I feel much more familiar with death and no longer fear it.
 
elphologist1 said:
…The second largest risk I found was physical. While DMT won't physically kill you, it, more than any other psychedelic I've read about, tends increase heart rate. I think its possible to "die from fright" on DMT by having a heart attack. I wouldn't parachute jump or ride a huge roller coaster at my age (I'm in my 40's), and I think the risk from DMT is probably comparable.
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I haven’t stopped using (yet), but this part of your post resonates.

At the end of February I had a DMT experience that was very similar to a Near Death Experience, perhaps (depending on definition) it was a NDE. I was quite certain that I had died – I assumed that I died of a heart attack after taking a full dose in about 10 seconds. I’ll be 50 next month, and I have a sibling who had a heart attack at age 39, so a heart attack isn’t an impossibility for me. This experience shook me more profoundly than any previous experience I’ve ever had. Beautiful and terrible.

Since then, I’ve cut way back on my frequency of use and dosage. I had another experience about 2 weeks ago where I saw an entity of incredible beauty. The beauty was so overwhelming that I thought I might literally die if I continued to look. So I looked away and “requested” return to my body. When I returned, it felt like my heart was beating 120+ (I don’t know if it actually was).

So I seem to be developing a fear (unfounded, I hope) that I might die while under the influence of DMT. This fear seems irrational, but it’s hard to describe how traumatic an unexpected NDE type of experience can be. I’m responsible in my use and have never taken huge doses, but letting go of this fear is proving to be a challenge. So I haven’t stopped using altogether, but my relationship with DMT has changed.
 
endlessness said:
what about oral dmt? imo it takes away most if not all of those risks away...
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I would in fact try it, but I am permanently on a low dose of an SSRI. I experienced several depressions (starting as early as age 6, first treated as a young adult). I used to get brief (a few months) but intense depressions every few years, but since staying on a low dose of SSRI starting in 2001 I have not had any recurrance.

endlessness said:
are you healthy, do you exercise and eat well? do you have history if cardiac problems?
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No history of cardiac problems, but my doctor has always said I'm at a high risk for heart disease due to low levels of "good" (LDL) cholesterol. This appears to be genetic, and in fact when I got a DNA test from DecodeMe a couple years ago those results also said that I have an increased chance of heart disease due to genetic factors. I do exercise and keep in shape though, and am generally in good health (rarely get sick).

endlessness said:
what about having a sitter?
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Could, but I don't really know anyone in person who I would trust to know what to do. Only a few close friends know about my psychedelics use, and each of them either has never used them or tried once and didn't like it.

elphologist
 
Just to clarify something, a heart attack is caused by a blood clot cutting off the blood supply to a portion of the heart muscle, killing it.

A persons heart can beat really, really fast for a short time without doing any damage. The increase in blood pressure would be more worrisome from a health perspective, but most subjects that had their BP checked while under the influence of DMT had a moderate increase.


Pokey
 
I've heard of combined and frequent use of stimulants inducing arrhythmia, and use of certain enzyme inhibitors interacting with substances to induce serotonin syndrome, but I've never heard of psychedelics causing physical problems on there own. I'm also fairly certain that an increased heart-rate for the amount of time any psychedelic is capable of wouldn't be harmful to a normally healthy person (with the possible exception of a highly abnormal dose).

SWIM used to get a bit raw when his smoking methods were more crude, but that ceased to be an issue when he started using a bubbler. For a time he used to even smoke during -huasca trips, but since improving his pharmahuasca administration techniques, smoking seems to interrupt the desired effects; he smokes a bit less now, due to this. He still enjoys it, but has smoked a lot and quite frequently, and while he's yet to experience physical, emotion, or problems otherwise, it's good to break routine.


As far as the fear goes, SWIM's had a great deal of bad trips and has gotten to points where the fear of death was completely bypassed to the disappointment of having died. It's been a very long time since he's had those feelings, but he regularly encounters the feeling of dying on DMT-related substances and tends to simply play along with it. It's important to put strong faith in one's rational senses when they serve to embolden and ward off unnecessary anxiety; oftentimes, surrendering to one's chosen path, no matter how difficult, will strengthen these senses and armor the traveler to press even further forward with subsequent journey.


SWIM tries not to treat it as something apart from his normal life or as some sort of remedy to his ills, but instead seeks to integrate it as a means to stimulate new thought patterns or to chase ideas a bit deeper than he would normally be capable of. In that way, it's no different from any other psychedelic but for the manner in which it accomplishes this; however, different substances have slightly different capabilities and merge variably with one's lifestyle.

SWIM feels the best way to get the most out of the psychedelic experience is to integrate it with creative endeavor and to integrate a good portion of one's life with that endeavor. If the experience is treated as somehow stratified against the rest of one's life, it's bound to lose appeal. It's important to keep broad focus in the purpose of practice, as these substances have not persisted through the centuries of cultural evolution as a simple hobby or a phase for amusement or escape or any other perceived personal end.
 
I am in love. :)

What lies behind me? Emptiness, lethargy, fear, unconsciousness, self-hate, confusion, lack of clarity...

What lies before me? Love, gratitude, joy, wisdom, understanding, and, most importantly, ways to integrate myself into society in the deepest and most soulfully satisfying way. I absolutely love who I am and am 100% in love with what I do. I love the growth it inspires in me... and the love and compassion for all living things (even microscopic)! I have been given strength through vision to abandon that which I do not believe in, and find creative ways to forge a path that resonates with me. It is ongoing work. At the end of this month, for example, I am kicking the petrol habit and selling my car, hell or high water.

Sometimes the view gets cloudy again if I stay away from the molecule for too long. It's a challenging path, but it really seems to be the only way forward. There seems to be a dependency, in a sense, especially with Ayahuasca: neurochemically, it keeps me straight and strong (with it, I have conquered depression). Regular meetings with the molecule require brutal self-honesty.

The molecule answers my deepest questions with even deeper questions... and so, I have grown, and continue to grow.

My frequency of meeting with the molecule is currently limited by finances and extraction techniques, I would love to journey more: but, I will add, that if I ever do feel I need to skip a weekly meeting to integrate, I absolutely honor it. I have taken extra downtime between journeys in the past, but my perspective is still of honoring the pause between teachings, rather than abandoning the practice.
 
88 said:
Recently gave it a rest for about 10 days. Needed to integrate, learn lessons, and pay due attention to my life on this plane. Ultimately, the journey is here, right now. We can visit There, but we must bring it back Here in our lives.

That's what they tell me anyways ... and I have learned to listen.
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What he said
 
i only smoked dmt once (plus several very low doses to test the waters) and it's been like a half year now. Fear is the main reason why i did not smoke again till now. I think i passed out for some seconds after smoking..then woke up in the middle of a circus: little gnomes manipulating my voice, a weird pac-man entity playing tricks on me, and then freaking out because i did not remember that i smoked dmt, so what was left of my 'rational' mind said : you're dying or dead.
But the re-integration was heavenly...
Another reason is my daughter...she's only three but we're having so much fun toghether. I realize the power of dmt and i'm just afraid it would mess up my family life..
But there's not one day going by where i'm not building myself up to finaly do it again...i'm just not rushing it
peace
 
I stopped because it revealed a true nature of myself and everything around me that I'll never forget.
Repeating the lesson is not needed anymore.
I have a lifetimes worth of meditations on all that I have experienced.
 
I haven't stopped... probably won't. But I'm taking a very deliberate vacation at the moment and my ethics are kind of falling apart at the seams right now, but I'm looking for something worth while to take back when I return. I'm pushing for some serious change as I feel the molecule grows tired of me. They say I'm all intention with no lasting actions and I shouldn't expect to wake up out of my holy kaleidoscope with a new view unless I'm actually capable of looking at it, which right now I don't appear to be. Wanting to change is a piece of piss. It only takes a few seconds of thought here and there. Actually changing is the commitment of a lifetime.

I think I've come pretty far though :)
 
I had the toughest journey i have ever had few days back. One that is still resonating with me almost 1 week later. It was the single most terrifying experience of my life ,

My feeling is that it was bound to happen sooner or later. Somehow as tough as it was it feels like it was supposed to happen to take me to the next level in my quest.

It's the closest I've been to packing it in with spice though. But Its looking like I'm not finished and its beginning to feel like I'm just getting started with it now.

It feels totally crazy sometimes but I will go back sooner than later. That being said I can completely underdstand coming to a point of being done with it.

Need I remind everyone that this is VERY serious stuff the implications of wich are very uncharted.

Before i go back I plan to plant myself fully in this reality for a while . MY foundation need rebuilding for a while . I'm building it stronger this time!!!!!!
 
Before i go back I plan to plant myself fully in this reality for a while . MY foundation need rebuilding for a while . I'm building it stronger this time!!!!!!
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I gave up tripping on LSD for the exact same reason.

I realized that a solid base must be built upon which the psychedelic experience can become meaningful again.
 
Great thread!

For what its worth, these are my thoughts.

1.Psychological factors

Strong hits of LSD, psilocybin, mescaline and DMT all take the user to a similar place but the tempo varies.The first three gently undress you, leaving you 'naked and exposed' , without the ego you need to function in real life.Its easier to surrender to this seduction than it is to go with the 'sexual assault' of DMT (clothes ripped off whether you like it or not).

The key to deriving benefit from all these chemicals is being able to go with the experience, to give up all control of it.Sounds straightforward enough, but in practical terms it equates to allowing yourself to die, if the intensity demands it.And with decent doses of DMT the intensity does ( I refer to smoking it).

The main determinant of this (but not the only one) is mind-set and setting-if these are right the chances of a favourable experience are higher.With LSD/psilocybin/mescaline, true 'ego-death' is achieved by massive doses (with all the stresses of a prolonged experience) or by taking biggish doses alone and this is not to be recommended unless one is very familiar with the terrain.Very few people have the mental fortitude to do this repeatedly for prolonged periods.

So, by default, most people will not take large numbers of such voyages and will more likely take repeated forays to the less heavy realms and it eventually becomes apparent that one is pursuing the same ground again and again and new insights soon become less forthcoming.

I think DMT when smoked is in a class of its own-when taken correctly it will take you beyond where the others will take you consistently.But there seems to be an unpredictable element to it-the same weight of the same batch taken in the same way on different occasions can give a range of experiences ranging from the stupidly strong to the downright outrageous, something you will not see with repeating the doses of the others.This assumes you are in a good enough mindset to be taking psychedelics.

I think that once one has had enjoyable trips on all 4 compounds- and I refer here to strong experiences-the mind kind of subconsciously becomes a little complacent and deludes itself into thinking it is now equipped for further ventures.If you play with these compunds often enough, the subconscious complacency will be the cause of your undoing and with DMT, at some point in a heavy come-up the realisation that you need to 'die' once more will have your shattered ego attempting to exert a degree of resistance to this and as you explorers out there know, this is not going to happen.Result is a traumatic painful experience.

Somw will be put off at this stage and decide to quit and understandably so.But the paradox is that further ventures, approached with the right amount of caution and preparation, have much to teach.But it takes a hardy venturer to re-enter the zone.

Im not sure if the realms revealed by DMT are finite or not, but I do know that beyond a certain dose the experience is so overwhelming that the light it sheds on things blinds rather than illuminates.

Im at the stage where I will take a breakthrough dose once every few months and this meets my needs nicely.

2.Physical Factors

Its true enough that heart rate and BP rise with DMT but the others can also do so especially if the trip is bad, the fear causes the tachycardia and as one tends not be physically incapacitated, running around screaming and freaking out can increase the heart rate AND BP further.The mercy in DMT is the physical incapacity which spares the BP rise to some degree.

People struggle with smoking DMT as its hard on the lungs but Xtals made as per Vovins tek to the letter vaporise cleanly and gently without harshness.I think the plastic harshness is due to lye in the gear or burning the spice.This can also be a barrier to ongoing use.For all you regular indulgers-try gently heating it on foil-I find this to be a painless method of use for base and allows one to take 35mg per inhalation if one is so inclined.

3.Social Factors.

Repeated forays can leave you betwixt and between reality and hyperspace and in some cases have you spouting 'hippy-style gibberish' (Im not being judgemental here but you get my drift!).This can make it hard to relate proeprly to either realm plus it can make so-called normal people regard you as odd/eccentric/mad.This can affect your social functioning.


I think DMT has much to teach the responsible explorer but I believe it is self-limiting.I doubt many of us here will be as enthusiastic about it or use it with the same ardour 10-20 years from now.
 
I only stop when an experience takes me to far out i need weeks or months to get my mind together without the risk of losing it completely!

The low-does easy ones are relatively boring now to me, but ironically, the high dose freak outs can satisfy me for months, so my pattern is usually:

1. smoke some, mild trip
2. smoke some mild trip
3. ask myself what kind of wimp i am smoking 'some for a mild trip'
4. smoke a ton in one bowl, freak out trip, lose sense of normal reality
5. take a break

by the way, those who stop smoking spice because of the health issue, boys once he hit 40 and some of the health nuts you grew up with begin getting sick anyways, while some coke heads who drank themselves silly are running around healthy like 18 years old, youll give that crap idea up, you've been spoon-fed it from the television because it sells "healthy' products. We all die "too early",DMT should have made you more confortable with death, not more scared of it in my honest opinion, no?
 
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