Why DMT Scares Me

[Voidmatrix]

PRE-CONDITIONS
(mind)Set: Actually, very fine.
(physical condition) Set: Fit and healthy
Setting (location): My room at my altar.
time of day: Early evening. 1730
recent drug use: Cannabis earlier in the day, was on my microdose, harmalas 15min prior to changa.
last meal: Jumbalaya- 1630

PARTICIPANT
Gender: M
body weight: 63.5kg
known sensitivities: Sensory Processing Sensitivity
history of use: Seasoned (15 years)

BIOASSAY
Substance(s): Cannabis with 30mg+ harmine layered in between. Several minute hits from changa pipe
Dose(s): 30mg+ harmalas, one bowl cannabis (GMO), changa blend is 1:1:.3 (or 3:3:1)
Method of administration: SMOALKED


EFFECTS
Administration time: Harmalas: 1730 Changa: Approx. 1745
Duration: 40min


Intensity (overall): 2.5
Evaluation / notes: I need to do this more often :twisted:

OPTIONAL
Pleasantness: 3
Implesantness: 1 (headache)
Visual Intensity: 1
.
.
.


AFTER-EFFECTS
Hangover: 0
Afterglow: 4, feeling elevated, centered, whole


REPORT


I unfortunately didn't get the chance to proof-read this, but wanted to share it.

I really should be working on my treatise if I want to be serious about it, but... here we are.

I've spoken about my fear of DMT, despite my frequency of low level experience, but never really why. I've certainly broken through my fair share of times. But the idea at this point and for the past few years tends to send me into feelings of sheer terror, despite having managed past experiences so well (hence why I keep coming back for more).

One thing I haven't mentioned in the past with regard to my anxiety, partly because I do find it a little embarrassing, is that when my anxiety reaches a certain point I experience tremors where my extremities in particular begin shaking. This happens when I'm trying to hit a heavy dose, making hitting said heavy dose a great deal more difficult.

I had slight tremors tonight.

Sandwiching 30mg+ of harmine between cannabis layers, I sat at my altar, playing the song (Dorje Ling) that I have chosen as my meditation song for months now. In full-lotus, I took several deep breaths, and opened my sacred space. After welcoming and thanking the cannabis and harmine extracted from rue for their presence in my meditation, I proceeded to smoalk the bowl from my “ritual bong.” Noticing my thoughts straying from the present moment, I calmly and gently redirected my awareness to the glass piece in my left hand and the experience of smoalking these medicinal and centering substances.

Harmalas help me to get to where I'm going in meditation and are very fulfilling to explore for me. Some may say I'm cheating when I use such a supplement (I don't smoalk them every time I meditate; and while I've always found meditation difficult in the long time I've practiced, harmalas are a welcome change), since they enforce a meditative state, but I really don't care :lol:

I suppose one thing that has always helped, for good reasons and bad, is that some of my first and most intense break-throughs have been with other people around. The positives to this is mainly the element of felt support. It's psychological. A negative is having the idea of not wanting to look like a chump in front of spectators. That's hubris. Granted, this was also around 15 years ago when I was a second-year student in college. I tend to only smoalk DMT alone now, as the times and tides change and I don't really know anyone in my immediate vicinity that I would like to journey with outside of a guide-work setting and intention.

Meditating, calmly, balanced and steadfast, I moved in flux between states of simply being to corrective thinking, to philosophic musing, to exploratory thought, to interacting with what slight visuals I was experiencing. I was suspended in my analyses; without judgment, only varying degrees of interest. Observational and indifferent.

The first experience delivered some insights to me about me that to this day I'm still so uncomfortable with. What's funny, is they weren't necessarily bad... So I ended up doing it two more times the same night, either to get a retraction or to receive understanding. Probably why I was so utterly “thrown” in the third experience (somehow being in the experience for over 50 minutes (according to a friend at least)). I recall coming back, with my face in my friend's chest while we were laying on my bed, me asking why the hell he was holding me, him telling me that I asked him to because I thought I was dying, realizing I was back in my meat-suit, in shock by the world I returned to, then running to the bathroom to vomit from my sense of shock. And this wasn't even what some may call a hyperslap.

So indifferent in fact, that while reflecting on how my mind magnifies things a great deal more than is necessary, and thinking about specific instances in which something was not that hard or was more of a success than my mind would allow me to think it could be, I also began reflecting on the sort of “**** it” mentality that I have felt is necessary to adopt in the past few weeks. This sent chills down my spine immediately, as my “rocket” (mod with Divine Tribe V4 Crucible that always has at least 10mg of DMT in it).

The fifth time was the closest thing that I've ever come to a hyperslap wherein one feels they are being punished. It's what I get since “she” told me to hold off and I went back again anyway, around 20 minutes later, because I “didn't want to waste it” after sending others off and there still being some in the bowl. This precipitated a 6 year hiatus. To be fair, I also couldn't find it again in that time, and didn't realize that I could extract it (both in the sense of the process being accessible to a layman and the sense of my confidence in myself to do so).

I instead grabbed my changa pipe, which is always loaded, even with something that I started smoalking at some point in the past (I rarely finish a whole bowl in one sitting). I've taken my usual hits while already dosed on harmalas, both smoalked and drank/oral, and go waaaaaayyyyyyy further. It's also a bit more to manage, especially with the added harmala component. So, I took several very very small hits until I reached the level I was comfortable with. Visuals were ever so slight, but much more apparent and “obvious” than the harmalas alone; I was seeing the “other side” even if not vividly.
It was the inspiration to write this.

When I did come across it again, things were great for a while. But as I began working with it more, things began to change. While my relationship and bond deepened, the depths that I'd go comfortably became shallower. It simply became “harder to handle.” It also keeps getting weirder. While they [these experiences] are of the utmost value to me and my mind, thinking, and being (well then what the hell was the “me” then, right?), it's come to a point that with that depth of experience I can't tell you how or why it's valuable to me. The reason is ineffable.

I've experienced energetic discharge before, but never like tonight. It began as it usually does; full body and a great deal of shaking in the arms and shoulders. I always allow it to run its course without preference or judgment, being aware that it is a healing action that my body is taking through it's input with my psychological flow with their mind-body connection; it's healing. But the healing was almost violent tonight. Breathing deeply, steadying myself in the moment and movement, I allowed it to reach its apex, being somewhat winded and out of breath by the end, by staying with my breath through the entirety of the discharge period.

It's all in the breath.

This is kind of why when I do break-through now, it's by surprise and accident, and typically I end up thinking “uh, oh.” It doesn't help that my sensitivity (which is already high) seems to have increased, with breakthroughs occurring between 10mg and 15mg (last time I did 10mg was a lot more than I anticipated). There was also a long period where my experiences were on the darker side, which I find takes more mindfulness and will-power to navigate and integrate thereafter. Then there are those that give an ominous vibe in weird ways, but are completely fine and enjoyable (still kinda kicking myself for inadvertently casting judgment on entities that I mischaraterized until they imparted me with gifts; they scared me at first). Granted, while I used to eat around 7g of mushrooms every time (because I didn't know any better the first time and just kept going from there), a gram intimidates me now depending on the strain. A lot of this difficulty can be attributed to my constant battle and management of depression. It has a way of enjoying influencing me to avoid that which I enjoy, like, love, what's beneficial, therapeutic, etc; endogenous brainwashing.

Blissfully floating on a sea of awareness (but not listening to the actual song), I rode out the rest of the experience allowing myself the feeling goodness and healing, and being aware that it was a gift to myself that I am deserving of.

While I've been getting much more comfortable approaching DMT, and am releasing some of my “standards of justification” (such as allowing myself to go far enough to see something; why I can't allow myself this is beyond me aside from what's already been shared; I'm neurotic), I'm still not quite there to send myself the distance. However, I have taken a step in that direction by NOT JUDGING MYSELF FOR WHERE I AM NOW. It's all good. Truly. I know what I'd like, but where I am is also satisfactory.

Thank you for reading. I hope you enjoyed.

One love

 

[Pandora]

Voidmatrix,

Thank you for sharing this truly inspirational post.

Although you claim at the beginning that it is unedited it felt as mindful as some of the meditations you describe.

I love your implicit understanding that the present does not happen in a vacuum and is radically informed by our past experiences and perceptions.

Your self awareness, understanding and willingness to work with and forgive yourself I think are as right on as a path can be and probably about as good a solution to depression as can be found in the current era.

I am sending you waves of love and I'm so grateful to have read this.

-Pandora

 

[Voidmatrix]

Voidmatrix,

Thank you for sharing this truly inspirational post.

Although you claim at the beginning that it is unedited it felt as mindful as some of the meditations you describe.

I love your implicit understanding that the present does not happen in a vacuum and is radically informed by our past experiences and perceptions.

Your self awareness, understanding and willingness to work with and forgive yourself I think are as right on as a path can be and probably about as good a solution to depression as can be found in the current era.

I am sending you waves of love and I'm so grateful to have read this.

-Pandora

Thank you so much, Pandora I'm happy to hear you enjoyed in and there was some value in it for you.

I also appreciate the feedback and encouragement.

I also agree the "present moment" is a magically elusive and mutable thing, influenced by the mechanisms you've mentioned along with inherent inner workings of the mind that are also influence by our past experiences, but also our choices made in those situations and the patterns we internally generate therein.

Sending you love as well

One love

 

[Panpsychic]

PRE-CONDITIONS
(mind)Set: Actually, very fine.
(physical condition) Set: Fit and healthy
Setting (location): My room at my altar.
time of day: Early evening. 1730
recent drug use: Cannabis earlier in the day, was on my microdose, harmalas 15min prior to changa.
last meal: Jumbalaya- 1630

PARTICIPANT
Gender: M
body weight: 63.5kg
known sensitivities: Sensory Processing Sensitivity
history of use: Seasoned (15 years)

BIOASSAY
Substance(s): Cannabis with 30mg+ harmine layered in between. Several minute hits from changa pipe
Dose(s): 30mg+ harmalas, one bowl cannabis (GMO), changa blend is 1:1:.3 (or 3:3:1)
Method of administration: SMOALKED


EFFECTS
Administration time: Harmalas: 1730 Changa: Approx. 1745
Duration: 40min


Intensity (overall): 2.5
Evaluation / notes: I need to do this more often :twisted:

OPTIONAL
Pleasantness: 3
Implesantness: 1 (headache)
Visual Intensity: 1
.
.
.


AFTER-EFFECTS
Hangover: 0
Afterglow: 4, feeling elevated, centered, whole


REPORT


I unfortunately didn't get the chance to proof-read this, but wanted to share it.

I really should be working on my treatise if I want to be serious about it, but... here we are.

I've spoken about my fear of DMT, despite my frequency of low level experience, but never really why. I've certainly broken through my fair share of times. But the idea at this point and for the past few years tends to send me into feelings of sheer terror, despite having managed past experiences so well (hence why I keep coming back for more).

One thing I haven't mentioned in the past with regard to my anxiety, partly because I do find it a little embarrassing, is that when my anxiety reaches a certain point I experience tremors where my extremities in particular begin shaking. This happens when I'm trying to hit a heavy dose, making hitting said heavy dose a great deal more difficult.

I had slight tremors tonight.

Sandwiching 30mg+ of harmine between cannabis layers, I sat at my altar, playing the song (Dorje Ling) that I have chosen as my meditation song for months now. In full-lotus, I took several deep breaths, and opened my sacred space. After welcoming and thanking the cannabis and harmine extracted from rue for their presence in my meditation, I proceeded to smoalk the bowl from my “ritual bong.” Noticing my thoughts straying from the present moment, I calmly and gently redirected my awareness to the glass piece in my left hand and the experience of smoalking these medicinal and centering substances.

Harmalas help me to get to where I'm going in meditation and are very fulfilling to explore for me. Some may say I'm cheating when I use such a supplement (I don't smoalk them every time I meditate; and while I've always found meditation difficult in the long time I've practiced, harmalas are a welcome change), since they enforce a meditative state, but I really don't care :lol:

I suppose one thing that has always helped, for good reasons and bad, is that some of my first and most intense break-throughs have been with other people around. The positives to this is mainly the element of felt support. It's psychological. A negative is having the idea of not wanting to look like a chump in front of spectators. That's hubris. Granted, this was also around 15 years ago when I was a second-year student in college. I tend to only smoalk DMT alone now, as the times and tides change and I don't really know anyone in my immediate vicinity that I would like to journey with outside of a guide-work setting and intention.

Meditating, calmly, balanced and steadfast, I moved in flux between states of simply being to corrective thinking, to philosophic musing, to exploratory thought, to interacting with what slight visuals I was experiencing. I was suspended in my analyses; without judgment, only varying degrees of interest. Observational and indifferent.

The first experience delivered some insights to me about me that to this day I'm still so uncomfortable with. What's funny, is they weren't necessarily bad... So I ended up doing it two more times the same night, either to get a retraction or to receive understanding. Probably why I was so utterly “thrown” in the third experience (somehow being in the experience for over 50 minutes (according to a friend at least)). I recall coming back, with my face in my friend's chest while we were laying on my bed, me asking why the hell he was holding me, him telling me that I asked him to because I thought I was dying, realizing I was back in my meat-suit, in shock by the world I returned to, then running to the bathroom to vomit from my sense of shock. And this wasn't even what some may call a hyperslap.

So indifferent in fact, that while reflecting on how my mind magnifies things a great deal more than is necessary, and thinking about specific instances in which something was not that hard or was more of a success than my mind would allow me to think it could be, I also began reflecting on the sort of “**** it” mentality that I have felt is necessary to adopt in the past few weeks. This sent chills down my spine immediately, as my “rocket” (mod with Divine Tribe V4 Crucible that always has at least 10mg of DMT in it).

The fifth time was the closest thing that I've ever come to a hyperslap wherein one feels they are being punished. It's what I get since “she” told me to hold off and I went back again anyway, around 20 minutes later, because I “didn't want to waste it” after sending others off and there still being some in the bowl. This precipitated a 6 year hiatus. To be fair, I also couldn't find it again in that time, and didn't realize that I could extract it (both in the sense of the process being accessible to a layman and the sense of my confidence in myself to do so).

I instead grabbed my changa pipe, which is always loaded, even with something that I started smoalking at some point in the past (I rarely finish a whole bowl in one sitting). I've taken my usual hits while already dosed on harmalas, both smoalked and drank/oral, and go waaaaaayyyyyyy further. It's also a bit more to manage, especially with the added harmala component. So, I took several very very small hits until I reached the level I was comfortable with. Visuals were ever so slight, but much more apparent and “obvious” than the harmalas alone; I was seeing the “other side” even if not vividly.
It was the inspiration to write this.

When I did come across it again, things were great for a while. But as I began working with it more, things began to change. While my relationship and bond deepened, the depths that I'd go comfortably became shallower. It simply became “harder to handle.” It also keeps getting weirder. While they [these experiences] are of the utmost value to me and my mind, thinking, and being (well then what the hell was the “me” then, right?), it's come to a point that with that depth of experience I can't tell you how or why it's valuable to me. The reason is ineffable.

I've experienced energetic discharge before, but never like tonight. It began as it usually does; full body and a great deal of shaking in the arms and shoulders. I always allow it to run its course without preference or judgment, being aware that it is a healing action that my body is taking through it's input with my psychological flow with their mind-body connection; it's healing. But the healing was almost violent tonight. Breathing deeply, steadying myself in the moment and movement, I allowed it to reach its apex, being somewhat winded and out of breath by the end, by staying with my breath through the entirety of the discharge period.

It's all in the breath.

This is kind of why when I do break-through now, it's by surprise and accident, and typically I end up thinking “uh, oh.” It doesn't help that my sensitivity (which is already high) seems to have increased, with breakthroughs occurring between 10mg and 15mg (last time I did 10mg was a lot more than I anticipated). There was also a long period where my experiences were on the darker side, which I find takes more mindfulness and will-power to navigate and integrate thereafter. Then there are those that give an ominous vibe in weird ways, but are completely fine and enjoyable (still kinda kicking myself for inadvertently casting judgment on entities that I mischaraterized until they imparted me with gifts; they scared me at first). Granted, while I used to eat around 7g of mushrooms every time (because I didn't know any better the first time and just kept going from there), a gram intimidates me now depending on the strain. A lot of this difficulty can be attributed to my constant battle and management of depression. It has a way of enjoying influencing me to avoid that which I enjoy, like, love, what's beneficial, therapeutic, etc; endogenous brainwashing.

Blissfully floating on a sea of awareness (but not listening to the actual song), I rode out the rest of the experience allowing myself the feeling goodness and healing, and being aware that it was a gift to myself that I am deserving of.

While I've been getting much more comfortable approaching DMT, and am releasing some of my “standards of justification” (such as allowing myself to go far enough to see something; why I can't allow myself this is beyond me aside from what's already been shared; I'm neurotic), I'm still not quite there to send myself the distance. However, I have taken a step in that direction by NOT JUDGING MYSELF FOR WHERE I AM NOW. It's all good. Truly. I know what I'd like, but where I am is also satisfactory.

Thank you for reading. I hope you enjoyed.

One love

I appreciate your honesty and forthright reflections in this report. Too many times I see false bravado with people saying they want to 'breakthrough' or have had multiple breakthroughs like its an accolade or some kind of rite of passage.

The true breakthrough, can be overwhelming and not to taken lightly at all.
I have likewise found that as time passes, especially combining with drinking harmalas then smoking that the experience gets stronger and more potent with less material needed. What I thought was going to be a few months supply I now realize is going to be few years probably because so little is needed now to go very deep.

Unlike some, I also seem to generally have consistent experiences and they tend towards degrees of divinity but it is always nonetheless anxiety inducing and a certain amount of apprehension that has to be overcome to proceed. I also can relate to seldom finishing a bowl of the changa as it's not necessary to still get very far and sometimes feeling that energetic overload doing its inner healing can be tough. Its all part of a larger process though and I trust in that.

 

[Voidmatrix]

I appreciate your honesty and forthright reflections in this report. Too many times I see false bravado with people saying they want to 'breakthrough' or have had multiple breakthroughs like its an accolade or some kind of rite of passage.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts. I see this as well. While it may say something about a person, it's not really the badge of honor people like to pretend or think that it is. It's a project. It's devotion. It's sacred. The stances some people take is interesting because the other side of it is how would anyone even really know that that person is being truthful... something I wonder when I speak to people about doing DMT.

While I've had my share of deep experiences, I desire to get back there because of the control of self that is necessary to do so. And because there's an ineffable something there that there is an ineffable reason for interacting with.

What I thought was going to be a few months supply I now realize is going to be few years probably because so little is needed now to go very deep

I've had very much the same experience and I find I can still have deep experiences even if I don't go deep into hyperspace with low doses. There's so much breadth to explore and so many different dosage ranges.

Unlike some, I also seem to generally have consistent experiences and they tend towards degrees of divinity but it is always nonetheless anxiety inducing and a certain amount of apprehension that has to be overcome to proceed. I also can relate to seldom finishing a bowl of the changa as it's not necessary to still get very far and sometimes feeling that energetic overload doing its inner healing can be tough. Its all part of a larger process though and I trust in that.

I wonder what that's like. Haha My experiences are only getting weirder with time which is a contributing factor to my anxieties. But thank you for relating. It oddly makes it easier for me to normalize what I'm going through.

And that's something that I forgot to mention in my trip report was that there was a nice period of energetic discharging that was lightening. Just shedding dross.

I'm now simply continuing to peel more and more layers back by smoalking moar.

One love

 

[Panpsychic]

While I've had my share of deep experiences, I desire to get back there because of the control of self that is necessary to do so. And because there's an ineffable something there that there is an ineffable reason for interacting with.

The first part of that is interesting, while the second is of course part of the enigma and mystery that is DMT. Its true that a certain a amount of self control is required to partake and in your case, you were even open (and shed ego) in mentioning tremors due to the anticipation sometimes, and that the pre anxiety had actually gotten worse as the years had passed, and the trips more weird and variable.
Yet something keeps pulling you back. I would argue that the process of partaking in this case has become part of the purpose itself as you mention in development of mastery of self required, and shows your dedication to the journey.

I've had very much the same experience and I find I can still have deep experiences even if I don't go deep into hyperspace with low doses. There's so much breadth to explore and so many different dosage ranges.

Yes, people miss a lot trying to shoot for a whirlwind rollercoaster of a high dose especially if its just freebase. I remember in the book 'The Spirit molecule' they gave it to one native guy and he said that it felt off because the traditional culture had a way of modulating the raw power of the DMT which is of course where the Harmalas come in even if just smoking.
Its like drawing out that spectrum and exploring the stages which each have great value, and the harmalas allow for that much more.

I wonder what that's like. Haha My experiences are only getting weirder with time which is a contributing factor to my anxieties. But thank you for relating. It oddly makes it easier for me to normalize what I'm going through.

And that's something that I forgot to mention in my trip report was that there was a nice period of energetic discharging that was lightening. Just shedding dross.

I'm now simply continuing to peel more and more layers back by smoalking moar.

It is interesting how it can be variable between people. I am reassured somewhat by the consistency in that I know its going to be an interfacing with "God" in some way and to some degree, but thats also hardly reassuring because if I overshoot it feels that, short of literally dying I couldnt go much further.

The presence of that field or depth consciousness or reality can be awe inspiring but also intimidating, especially as it seems to be demanding increasing levels of bodily and mental purification and development in daily life that I seldom am meeting at present each time I commune with it. The energetic bodily overload is sometimes very hard to manage and I remember telling myself one time "Its supposed to be doing this, let it do its work" as I struggled to contain it.

It has turned into basically a spiritual ritual for me now, but I trust that as long as I follow its 'plan' things will continue to unfold as they should.

 

[Voidmatrix]

Yet something keeps pulling you back. I would argue that the process of partaking in this case has become part of the purpose itself as you mention in development of mastery of self required, and shows your dedication to the journey.

Thank you so much for your response. I wanted to take a little time to chew on it.

I feel very understood by the section quoted above. And it's been something that's been hard for me to put into words because the situation has become rather recursive. It reminds me of a yogic perspective where "the point or purpose of yoga is yoga;" "the point or purpose to smoalking DMT is to smoalk DMT."

All the same, whether you meant to or not, thank you for the implied encouragement. I am where I am and there's no going back. One can't unring a bell.

Yes, people miss a lot trying to shoot for a whirlwind rollercoaster of a high dose especially if its just freebase. I remember in the book 'The Spirit molecule' they gave it to one native guy and he said that it felt off because the traditional culture had a way of modulating the raw power of the DMT which is of course where the Harmalas come in even if just smoking.
Its like drawing out that spectrum and exploring the stages which each have great value, and the harmalas allow for that much more

Definitely. I come across many that are still in the honeymoon phase that tend to be confused by my trepidation and internal blocks. Some of them even thinking that low dose is a waste of time, which is funny because it's something that they haven't explored themselves, so epistemically that don't have a very strong leg to stand on.

I remember that part as well. And I also find that harmalas do modulate the intensity very well, in such a way that it allows one to bring back more from a journey (I still see the insectoid apparatus from the other day).

The spectrum view is something that I have adopted more and more as time has gone on and applied it to more and more things. The spectrum within the realms of DMT and hyperspace are unparalleled and to some degree may be necessary for more in-depth work with deeper experiences.

It is interesting how it can be variable between people. I am reassured somewhat by the consistency in that I know its going to be an interfacing with "God" in some way and to some degree, but thats also hardly reassuring because if I overshoot it feels that, short of literally dying I couldnt go much further.

The presence of that field or depth consciousness or reality can be awe inspiring but also intimidating, especially as it seems to be demanding increasing levels of bodily and mental purification and development in daily life that I seldom am meeting at present each time I commune with it. The energetic bodily overload is sometimes very hard to manage and I remember telling myself one time "Its supposed to be doing this, let it do its work" as I struggled to contain it.

I've met a few people that seem to have almost the same exact experience every time. The closest I get is passing through areas that I've spent time in before. I've never really tried to stop in one of them again though. Part of me is always open to the novel. But maybe there's a hint there that there's some navigation that can be done in the pocket of hyperspace I seem to frequent.

That rush is in and of itself intimidating, and, as you say, demanding, mentally and physically. And with lots of life stressors and a sense of being overwhelmed makes it hard to create the psychological space to be able to aptly prep for "that" depth. But it's nice that I get to touch it from time to time.

However, and part of how things have gotten weirder, the space has brought itself closer to me. I've been immersed with my eyes closed, but then have plenty of autonomy once I open my eyes, almost as if I'm not really that altered. In those instances, it's also interesting because I can also have barely any discernible difference in my open eyed vision but see plenty with my eyes closed.

Thank you again

One love

 

[Voidmatrix]

@Panpsychic I just smoalked a small amount and started thinking about this again.

I would argue that the process of partaking in this case has become part of the purpose itself as you mention in development of mastery of self required, and shows your dedication to the journey.

Which lends me to say that the physical or visual representation of such is...



And this is ironic to me. I've had an idea, for a long time, that DMT and the spaces it unlocks aren't so much a byproduct of our minds, but perhaps there are doorways to other places only found in our minds. We have to go in to go out. I kind of feel this idea also resembles a Klein bottle, but in a more inverse way.

One love

 

[Panpsychic]

Which lends me to say that the physical or visual representation of such is...


And this is ironic to me. I've had an idea, for a long time, that DMT and the spaces it unlocks aren't so much a byproduct of our minds, but perhaps there are doorways to other places only found in our minds. We have to go in to go out. I kind of feel this idea also resembles a Klein bottle, but in a more inverse way.

One love

This is genius! You have hit on something very profound there. Of course DMT is a key opening doorways to different dimensions accessed only through the mind.

The idea that such experiences are 'just a product of our minds and brains' is a safety belief coming from fear of the limited ego mind to find reassurance when confronting what is vastly beyond itself. Such limiting beliefs may reduce fear, but they do so by minimising and tricking oneself into interpretating things through a familiar mundane window, because one is incapable of apprehending the experience on its own terms and seeing it for what it is.
The other limitation of such ways of thinking is that we dont even know what mind is according to current understanding, only that it functions in some way in relation to the brain.

So part of the reason you are having such fears I think, is because you actually correctly perceive what you are experiencing without falling back on a false reasurrance that it is 'just a product of the mind' or in other words 'not something to be taken too seriously'.
On the contrary, it is to be taken very seriously, and this is where much of the fear stems from but also the far greater potential benefits.

The Klein bottle analogy however is very deep in representing the relation of our individual mind to the deeper dimensions of Universal Mind and Depth Reality.

 

[Voidmatrix]

The idea that such experiences are 'just a product of our minds and brains' is a safety belief coming from fear of the limited ego mind to find reassurance when confronting what is vastly beyond itself. Such limiting beliefs may reduce fear, but they do so by minimising and tricking oneself into interpretating things through a familiar mundane window, because one is incapable of apprehending the experience on its own terms and seeing it for what it is.

I feel similarly, though it's not something I feel I know, but an inkling that I have. Certain perspectives are effectively safety blankets for that which we have a hard time wrapping our minds around. However, having a stance in the unknown only serves to foster delusion. And perhaps I have more courage than I think since I don't subscribe to a stance out of rhe cognitive need for some understanding to instantiate a sense of comfort.

The other limitation of such ways of thinking is that we dont even know what mind is according to current understanding, only that it functions in some way in relation to the brain

But many people will act like they know what the mind is, which, again, only serves to stoke delusion. We can observe function and experience, that's about it it seems.

So part of the reason you are having such fears I think, is because you actually correctly perceive what you are experiencing without falling back on a false reasurrance that it is 'just a product of the mind' or in other words 'not something to be taken too seriously'.
On the contrary, it is to be taken very seriously, and this is where much of the fear stems from but also the far greater potential benefits.

Sometimes we need an outside perspective to tell us such things. So, thank you

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