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why do asians get humiliated?

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[quote='Coatl]Yes I was born and raised in the U.S., correct.
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Apology for the intervention; I remember 'Coatl saying in another thread that he' also Native American. Is that also right?
 
FWIW, I work closely with a man from Korea and he gets humiliated to the point of being utterly counter-productive. If there is something about which he is unsure or that he forgets, he'll simply turn bright red and loudly accuse me of actually trying to embarrass him until I walk away.

It might seem to get the job done in his mind, but 9 times out of 10 the problem simply persists. The last time this occurred was when I happened to be doing a lab inventory of hazardous chemicals. He forgot what was in his freezer and not-so-politely told me to just mind my own chemicals. So I did... Two weeks later we got audited and I came out smelling like a rose while he's still dealing with the consequences of having bad logs.

Oh well, sometimes a bit of humility goes a long way. I still get the feeling that he has no idea how this could have been avoided though.
 
Face-saving goes on in all cultures, including ours. You are only noticing that it's more pronounced in certain cultures.

I find Asian men a lot more pleasant to converse with than the average Westerner. I think this thing of deprecating your friends is poisonous- it's a pathetic dominance game and it bores me completely.

I also love the way Japanese and Indian girls are. They put many Western women to shame. I'm not after submissive, I just don't like manipulative women, and many Western women seem to have learnt this from our culture. Not all of course... we are in the dangerous territory of cultural generalisations here!
 
It's not typically asian. You see it in all countries where there's a lot of poverty. Even when you manage to get out of the poverty, it will still haunt you somehow. That's why hip-hop dude's always have to drive in big expensive cars, wear kilo's of gold and blingbling stuff, that's why in many poor countries around the equator people drive their car's with closed window's even when you could fry an egg on the carseats; to make everybody believe they got airco. And everybody knows that those second hand dacia's don't have airco's, but you don't tell anybody.
Poverty is basically undignifying and humiliating. So is living under dictatorship. And most asian countries are totally undemocratic and have traditions of dictatorship and supression that go back for centuries.
I agree with ohayoco that there is a danger of generalizing people. On the other hand i feel that it is a problem that the majority of the people on this planet living in poverty or are being opressed or both.
People, on many places in this world, including most asian countries are from birth on, being tought to know their rank in society, often based on the income and social status of their parents, colour of skin or clan to wich they belong, religion, etc. The majority of the people automatically falling in the lower ranks of society. But for the people at the bottom as well as for the people at the top, such class-society's make you very aware of your ranking anyway and sensitive for anything that could be interpreted as something refering to social status.
 
I respectfully disagree. Not insofar as thinking you're wrong, but more in terms of the people with which I personally have contact. Most if not all of the (eastern) Asian people that work with me come from upper-middle to upper class backgrounds.

It may very well be the case that poverty-stricken people are more concerned with saving face. It's clear, however, that it is not the only reason. I attribute my "clash" to be the result of true cultural differences. When I ask him how it should be handled, he definitively says that his chemicals are his business and that mine are my business. He interpreted my trying to help as an insult. I should also add that this is one person and one example that I found to be rather concrete. I detect many instances of this cultural characteristic in my day-to-day interactions with many people.

I'm not saying that it is a flaw on his part, or on the part of the culture for that matter. Instead, I think that it is a real trait which is not beneficial in the context of western culture. Similarly, I would probably be considered nosy or rude by eastern standards.

Generalizations are indeed dangerous territory, but let's not forget that they can also hold some truth. We survive by making generalizations, and use them to interpret the world around us. It's important to keep an open mind, but just as important to trust what we know to be true when assessing various situations. Eh, just my .02
 
ohayoco said:
I also love the way Japanese and Indian girls are. They put many Western women to shame. I'm not after submissive, I just don't like manipulative women, and many Western women seem to have learnt this from our culture. Not all of course... we are in the dangerous territory of cultural generalisations here!
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I know!! ..ever dated a western "feminist"?? ..dont!
Women here have this idea that men are fucking evil..and they actualyl degrade themselves by trying to argue that "men and women are equal", by abandoning they're children to go off and work 9-5 every day..ungratefully accsuing men of having it "so easy"!!..(edit..this may be due to economic issues as well)

I dont understand the whole feminist movement at all in the way most "feminisnt" portray it. Its degrading bullshit. Women are fucking beautiful for so many of those special things that make them women..having children, being the mother than NO man could be ect..why cant most women today see this?? I find that most feminists are just as discriminating as the "evil men" they hate so much, and treat they're men like complete shit, thinking that they are the fucking princess of the land..I love indian women..not to say that they dont get the short end of the stick in they're culture..
 
blizznshot said:
I respectfully disagree. Not insofar as thinking you're wrong, but more in terms of the people with which I personally have contact. Most if not all of the (eastern) Asian people that work with me come from upper-middle to upper class backgrounds.

It may very well be the case that poverty-stricken people are more concerned with saving face. It's clear, however, that it is not the only reason. I attribute my "clash" to be the result of true cultural differences. When I ask him how it should be handled, he definitively says that his chemicals are his business and that mine are my business. He interpreted my trying to help as an insult. I should also add that this is one person and one example that I found to be rather concrete. I detect many instances of this cultural characteristic in my day-to-day interactions with many people.

I'm not saying that it is a flaw on his part, or on the part of the culture for that matter. Instead, I think that it is a real trait which is not beneficial in the context of western culture. Similarly, I would probably be considered nosy or rude by eastern standards.

Generalizations are indeed dangerous territory, but let's not forget that they can also hold some truth. We survive by making generalizations, and use them to interpret the world around us. It's important to keep an open mind, but just as important to trust what we know to be true when assessing various situations. Eh, just my .02
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Well, it's not just poverty. In many traditional societies social ranking is important. To me it seems that there is a link between the wealth or wealth-distribution of a nation and the importance attached to social-ranking.
Anyway; i think that many traditional cultures cultivate a sort of disrespect for the individual human being, degrading people to merely a rank, merely a worker. There are many places in the world where slavery still exists. This affects people from all rankings. Also the higher social groups.
There are many things we can learn from asian cultures but there are also things asians canlearn from us. Respect for the individual human being, wich inevitably also brings forth some form of emancipation of people from all groups including women, is one of those things.
In many ways it has been a blessing for both western and tibetan culture to come into contact with one another. Tibetan budhism has enriched our culture with a broader sense of personal repsonsabillaty (karma) and self-relativation (enlightenment), while tibetan culture has definately been enriched as well.
I believe that in some sense we are evolving towards a global culture with local typicallities, although some nations are fiercely resisting this development. In the end there will be the globalized, industrialized and civilized nations and there will be places that are taliban-territory; uncivilized, poor and isolated.
While the borders between civilized nations will gradually dissapear or become thinner, the borders between the civilized and uncivilized nations will become more relevant.
 
Interesting. Are you saying that this is is more about asserting and affirming one's rank in society then?

I just find it hard to assimilate this idea with the notion that my bringing up something seemingly helpful (in my eyes) could be construed as a personal insult.

I can see where the whole "insult being taken more seriously thing" might be a rank/save face type of deal, and how that can tie into a nation with poor wealth distribution, but I think that the interpretation of something being helpful vs. something being an insult has to do with cultural differences. Specifically, it has to do with the differences by which the two cultures approach different obstacles/scenarios.
 
Apology for the intervention; I remember 'Coatl saying in another thread that he' also Native American. Is that also right?
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Yup that is correct. My dad is mostly white with a quarter Native American and my mom is Asian.
 
This discussion is helping my sociological knowledge, THX

I think there is a difference between "saving face," as may be required by the cultural convention of say eastern cultures, and what is being compared here as stemming from a culture that may arise from poverty. I think that may be better described as a requirement of maintaining an "image of valor," for survival. If you live in poverty, you may live outside of the protection of "the system." If you rely on income from an "illicit" business for survival you can't exactly call the cops if you are defrauded. You have to project a "don't mess with me" image.
 
fractal enchantment said:
I know!! ..ever dated a western "feminist"?? ..dont!
Women here have this idea that men are fucking evil..and they actualyl degrade themselves by trying to argue that "men and women are equal", by abandoning they're children to go off and work 9-5 every day..ungratefully accsuing men of having it "so easy"!!..(edit..this may be due to economic issues as well)

I dont understand the whole feminist movement at all in the way most "feminisnt" portray it. Its degrading bullshit. Women are fucking beautiful for so many of those special things that make them women..having children, being the mother than NO man could be ect..why cant most women today see this?? I find that most feminists are just as discriminating as the "evil men" they hate so much, and treat they're men like complete shit, thinking that they are the fucking princess of the land..I love indian women..not to say that they dont get the short end of the stick in they're culture..
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My wife is an outspoken feminist, and I'm sorry but you view of feminists is extremely ill-informed; though this is possibly due to an excessive contact with poorly representative feminists. When my wife went to India (mainly for the purpose of attending various Gandhian workshops as an activist), she was constantly approached by Indian women and asked for advice on how to gain ground in their culture (as they seriously have next to none). She was even hissed at by some Indian men simply for being in the wrong place at the wrong time. If you love Indian women for what they are and not for what they can potentially be, that's an extremely misogynistic sort of love, don't you think?

If you want a decent example of a cultural feminist, check out Miranda July.
"What's confusing about [being a feminist]? It's just being pro-your ability to do what you need to do. It doesn't mean you don't love your boyfriend or whatever...When I say 'feminist', I mean that in the most complex, interesting, exciting way!"
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