25-40 mg in a pipe makes my hands shake and my heart palpitate even only thinking about smoking it. 100 grams... what???
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why is DMT harmful in high doses?
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The Day Tripper
Rennasauce Man
I think the only dangers from smoking high doses (not ridiculous and unnecessary 500+mg doses) of DMT is that if you freak, or are not ready (how the fuck do you prepare for a 200+mg dose? imho) for such high doses, there can be shock. Physical shock which can cause damage. But I doubt thats even possible with doses under 100mg, and from what i hear, very few people are willing/experienced enough to push it that far.
I doubt healthy people with the proper preparation and setting will have any issues with doses up to 100mg. And anything more is overkill imho. But take this with a grain of salt, as I've never personally pushed my doses past 50mg. Even that was far too intense for me, and kept me away from the molecule for a few months. At the doses currently used by most people, i doubt there is any health issues, assuming you are vaping your spice, and it is free from toxic impurities.
Oral is a whole different ball game though imo, and i think you could get away with 250mg and not run into shock issues. Perhaps it would scare you away from such high doses for a while, unless you are very well prepared, but nothing physically dangerous imho.
These are all relative to me though, and I'm a rather small person. Perhaps larger peeps could get away with or need larger doses. As far as toxicity, i would be willing to be the numbers are far higher than 100mg vaped/250mg oral. That does not mean you cannot cause physical harm due to shock though.
I doubt healthy people with the proper preparation and setting will have any issues with doses up to 100mg. And anything more is overkill imho. But take this with a grain of salt, as I've never personally pushed my doses past 50mg. Even that was far too intense for me, and kept me away from the molecule for a few months. At the doses currently used by most people, i doubt there is any health issues, assuming you are vaping your spice, and it is free from toxic impurities.
Oral is a whole different ball game though imo, and i think you could get away with 250mg and not run into shock issues. Perhaps it would scare you away from such high doses for a while, unless you are very well prepared, but nothing physically dangerous imho.
These are all relative to me though, and I'm a rather small person. Perhaps larger peeps could get away with or need larger doses. As far as toxicity, i would be willing to be the numbers are far higher than 100mg vaped/250mg oral. That does not mean you cannot cause physical harm due to shock though.
The more DMT you smoke, the more cosmic energy you are drawing into your body, sometimes to much energy, will increase your vibration so much that you will experience what you would seem as harmful experiences, but they are not harmful really, to much energy intake and your body will burst it out and you may find that electrical equipment will malfunction.
EuphoricHavoc
Monster Entity Mom
Harmful to what? Your body or your ego? It's very safe by weight. LSD is one of the safest ever AFAIK. Comparing other drugs to it makes no sense. Better to compare water.
i don't think people quite got what or why i am asking judging from most of the responses so i will try to clear things up.
in the original post i was purely asking about why large doses (by large i was talking LD50 doses of grams not mgs) are toxic
DMT as a chemical is lethal at a low dose of maybe just a few grams, vastly more than the recreational dose but toxic all the same. i know if you drink too much water it can kill you and i know why it can kill you. what i don't know is why DMT would kill you which is what im trying to find out to better my understanding of DMT and why it is safe as a physical chemical to your body, i have satisfied myself with my knowledge of the psychological risks associated but i am still completely ignorant to why it is physically safe to vape it.
let me give a couple of examples:
say you have a friend, who knows you use drugs and is very against it, who only uses legal drugs such as coffee and alcohol (im sure this is a situation many people are in). if you said to that friend you are going to be dosing EtOH on the weekend but they shouldn't worry because its a low dose and its a well researched drug that is commonly used and know as safe in low doses and you have a very trusted supplier. lets face it, they are going to be dead against it from the go without any idea what this "EtOH" drug is. now, all you would have to do is ask them for one reason why your EtOH plans were dangerous and they would go off and google EtOH looking for either known dangers of the drug or lack of research in which case they could claim its not been tested enough to know its safe. now it wouldn't take much research to discover that EtOH is ethanol so you could be referring to having a couple of cans of beer (low dose/well researched/commonly used/safe/trusted supplier).
ok so say you now tell this friend you are going to be vaping some DMT which is a strong psychedelic drug and you are well aware of the potential psychological problems you might have, HPPD, PTSD ect and while they will disagree that its a good idea due to that alone you realize and accept these risks but the drug itself is physically safe to vape in recreational doses of 20-70mg. at this point your friend once again goes off looking for research on this drug and he comes back to you and says
"DMT has an LD50 similar to cocaine"
you reply "i wasn't intending on taking an LD50 dose"
"but people who use cocaine have a much greater chance of heart problems due to increased blood pressure, given that the LD50 of cocaine is similar to DMT as well as the recreational dose why is it that cocaine is damaging and dangerous while DMT isn't, even though like cocaine DMT increased blood pressure?"
and at this point i would be stumped, i wouldn't be able to answer that question and as a user of the DMT i feel like i should be able to.
so this is why i am wondering about the LD50 of DMT and its toxicity and why i am comparing it to other drugs.
anyway, i hope i could explain what i was asking and why and i think i have all the info i need in this PDF.
in the original post i was purely asking about why large doses (by large i was talking LD50 doses of grams not mgs) are toxic
DMT as a chemical is lethal at a low dose of maybe just a few grams, vastly more than the recreational dose but toxic all the same. i know if you drink too much water it can kill you and i know why it can kill you. what i don't know is why DMT would kill you which is what im trying to find out to better my understanding of DMT and why it is safe as a physical chemical to your body, i have satisfied myself with my knowledge of the psychological risks associated but i am still completely ignorant to why it is physically safe to vape it.
let me give a couple of examples:
say you have a friend, who knows you use drugs and is very against it, who only uses legal drugs such as coffee and alcohol (im sure this is a situation many people are in). if you said to that friend you are going to be dosing EtOH on the weekend but they shouldn't worry because its a low dose and its a well researched drug that is commonly used and know as safe in low doses and you have a very trusted supplier. lets face it, they are going to be dead against it from the go without any idea what this "EtOH" drug is. now, all you would have to do is ask them for one reason why your EtOH plans were dangerous and they would go off and google EtOH looking for either known dangers of the drug or lack of research in which case they could claim its not been tested enough to know its safe. now it wouldn't take much research to discover that EtOH is ethanol so you could be referring to having a couple of cans of beer (low dose/well researched/commonly used/safe/trusted supplier).
ok so say you now tell this friend you are going to be vaping some DMT which is a strong psychedelic drug and you are well aware of the potential psychological problems you might have, HPPD, PTSD ect and while they will disagree that its a good idea due to that alone you realize and accept these risks but the drug itself is physically safe to vape in recreational doses of 20-70mg. at this point your friend once again goes off looking for research on this drug and he comes back to you and says
"DMT has an LD50 similar to cocaine"
you reply "i wasn't intending on taking an LD50 dose"
"but people who use cocaine have a much greater chance of heart problems due to increased blood pressure, given that the LD50 of cocaine is similar to DMT as well as the recreational dose why is it that cocaine is damaging and dangerous while DMT isn't, even though like cocaine DMT increased blood pressure?"
and at this point i would be stumped, i wouldn't be able to answer that question and as a user of the DMT i feel like i should be able to.
so this is why i am wondering about the LD50 of DMT and its toxicity and why i am comparing it to other drugs.
anyway, i hope i could explain what i was asking and why and i think i have all the info i need in this PDF.
Parshvik Chintan
Esteemed member
settings said:
just because enough of something can kill you, doesn't mean it is bad for you.
it just means that there is a balance that needs to be kept.
as with virtually every chemical in your body.
also erowid said the effective dose of dmt is 60 mg...
i don't know what to make of that, but i can only imagine how many people it has led astray :shock:
River of Thoughts
Rising Star
Parshvik Chintan said:
I was adding more support to your post...
..there is some very suspect data going on in this thread..this chart Erowid Psychoactive Vaults : LD50s & Material Safety Data Sheets gives the LD50: I.M. in mice as 110mg per kg, but without seeing the actual paper, it is possible that this is simply an estimate.. this is like a human injecting 7 grams or more!
..no human has died as a result of directly smoking or injecting pure DMT..there have been cocaine overdoses resulting in death..this all needs to be a bit more precise and referenced before hypothesising any of this..
i don't think a large enough dose of DMT has been, or could be ingested, to reach LD50..
all substances are toxic at some level, even water...
..no human has died as a result of directly smoking or injecting pure DMT..there have been cocaine overdoses resulting in death..this all needs to be a bit more precise and referenced before hypothesising any of this..
i don't think a large enough dose of DMT has been, or could be ingested, to reach LD50..
all substances are toxic at some level, even water...
BananaForeskin
I Eat Plant Magic
You should tell them that the effective dose to LD50 ratio is EXTREMELY different, and that unlike cocaine (where you could accidentally take the LD50) you are probably not physically capable of vaping the LD50 of DMT.
Also, you could tell them about how DMT is naturally produced in the human body, and how it's (the only? [ref]) drug which the brain ACTIVELY transports across the blood-brain barrier rather than blocking, and that DMT use, unlike cocaine, carries (virutally) no risk of death, physical damage, addiction, etc.
Despite being one of the most powerful psychedelics, DMT is probably the physically safest; and I think the mental risks (although real) are overexaggerated. I've been on some utterly, utterly ridiculous DMT trips, and tens of dozens of them, had my world ripped apart and been freaking out for weeks afterward-- but 6 months later I don't have any mental health issues, no HPPD, etc.
Also, you could tell them about how DMT is naturally produced in the human body, and how it's (the only? [ref]) drug which the brain ACTIVELY transports across the blood-brain barrier rather than blocking, and that DMT use, unlike cocaine, carries (virutally) no risk of death, physical damage, addiction, etc.
Despite being one of the most powerful psychedelics, DMT is probably the physically safest; and I think the mental risks (although real) are overexaggerated. I've been on some utterly, utterly ridiculous DMT trips, and tens of dozens of them, had my world ripped apart and been freaking out for weeks afterward-- but 6 months later I don't have any mental health issues, no HPPD, etc.
Psychedelic's such as DMT operate on receptors. That's what causes their psychedelic effects. Those receptors occur throughout the body. They have numerous functions and some of these functions include the (co)regulation of things like blood-pressure or body-temperature.
If you take a lethal dose of DMT, then your receptors are overstimulated so much that many of these physical effects become too much for the body to be able to survive. That's just it.
There are no substances that have only one single effect. Every substance that is psychedelic by affecting serotonin receptors, will also have a vasoconstricting and bronchoconstricting effect to some degree, as well as some other physical effects. The ratio between psychedelic and physical effects differs for each substance, but psychedelic's that are totally void of physical effects don't exist.
If you take a lethal dose of DMT, then your receptors are overstimulated so much that many of these physical effects become too much for the body to be able to survive. That's just it.
There are no substances that have only one single effect. Every substance that is psychedelic by affecting serotonin receptors, will also have a vasoconstricting and bronchoconstricting effect to some degree, as well as some other physical effects. The ratio between psychedelic and physical effects differs for each substance, but psychedelic's that are totally void of physical effects don't exist.
The Day Tripper
Rennasauce Man
polytrip said:
this ^^^ I think that's how shock comes into play. Such a drastic change in how your receptors are being stimulated in such a short period of time can cause damage. But once again, that only comes into play in ridiculously high doses. However if you are already freaking out before dosing, and your receptors are not in their normal state, the risk of shock to the system is more imho.
