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Why you should NOT smoke Salvia divinorum!

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I dont use a torch lighter if thats what you mean..I have successfully used matches even..I wouldnt rule out quidding..it does have it's benifits..but working you're way up with plain leaf can be alot nicer than jumping in with extracts.. smoke a real low dose, so low you dont feel it, and sit in meditation and breath, and work you're way up from there until you start to feel it slightly. You should eventually feel you're self opening up and the closed eye dimension will all off a sudden be very vast..like you are staring into oblivion..for me it's like what was is first the back of my eyelids, suddenly looks like it's no longer my eyelids, and just miles of blackness, and then once I go a bit higher or are feeling more creative visualizations start...but they are differnt from DMT visuals..sometimes they are only have percieved by the eyes amd half percieved by the mind...when you feel that you need to really let you're body go, and relax completely into mindspace..that's how I work with low doses.

The only differnt I noticed was that quidding was more euphoric..but I think that it has to do with natural euphoria building up inside becasue you have more time to feel the medicine...but I dont ever get a tolerancy to salvia so I can smoke a hit of plain leaf evey few minutes and stay in a really meditative mindset where with eyes closed and light tonal music it's like they visual field is open and my head is vast...hard to explain but it's great for medative work and gentle metaprogramming for me. I also get little internal peaks, like as if some sort of electrochemical work is taking place.

I would definatily suggest you try quidding, you may find that it is the way for you..or you may may find that salvia just isn't you're cup of tea...everyone is differnt.
 
Or maybe without modern lighters it's not possible to vaporise the salvinorin.
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That is a myth, I have smoked Salvia divinorum plain leaf with a regular light, a match and even a stick I light on fire and it works just fine!

The dreamer was going to grow a salvia plant, but if quidding really isn't all that different, he probably won't bother (and leave the windowsill for more cacti!). Is there still that strange unnerving feeling when quidding?
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Smoking Vs. Chewing is so different it is like two completely different drugs.
 
I don't think it's a good idea to tell others what they SHOULD and SHOULD NOT do. Actually I like smoking Sage and I like the experience extract gives me. So what? It's my choice. I also chewed leaves and yes, it was a different experience and actually you can store the leaves in a freezer and have the same type of experience. I think it is important to know that difference, but the "modern" way of application is no less fascinating and sometimes enlightening as well.
 
hmm... as someone who really has infinitely uncomfortable experiences with smoked salvia I'd reccomend not to smoke it. But just because I don't want people to feel what I felt under my recomendation. But yes I'm sure there are people who enjoy it... evidently from this forum, but I've never met one in person... weirdos :p
 
I just came back from a light trance session with 2 great goddesses..cannabis and la pastora, my emerald ladies..

I was already stoned..shut off my light and flicked on the salt rock lamp for mild candle-style light..
Propped up some pillow on my bed agaainst my wall, loaded up about half of a breakthrough dose of 3x..spoke some words between me and the plant keeping up an old tradition and agreement and smoked..lay back and closed my eyes..

I wanted to pinpoint the exact point of discomfort and unease in the experience that used to get me so I could have it fresh in my mind to explain here...I find on lower doses I can observe the split beginning to happen, but I can keep my memory and still experience the other realm at the same time..higher doses and I may forget what I am doing..

Anyways..another world begons to form..out of the blackness..it happens so fast that most won't even notice it unless you are really her student and have been in this class for a while..it's not even so much of a split..well not any more than it is a union..

The visions..are so much more than that..another world..another reality..I dunno how else to say it..but the weirdest part is that the other reality is HER. She IS the visions..but at the same time I am connected to the visions like they ARE ME at the same time. Barriers brake down and boarders dont exist...yet there is still that membrane...on one side I am me..sober me..the other side of the membrane is salvia space..and I am half in it..so it's like I am half her..or maybe she is half me...

This is where it begins to really get weird..all these membranes slicing me and connecting me to something greater at the same time..it's almost just as mind blowing at this mid-level dose becasue I can take it all in and experience 2 worlds simutaniousily...like a real shaman..a foot in each..

I came to the conclusion(same one I have had over and over again) that she literally is speaking to me through the visions..that is her communication..The dimensional layers and membranes are like her skin..and the visions I have in those other places are her way of communicatiog to me..yet at the same time they are real places and times..or seem that way.

I noticed that my breathing was extending into some extra dimension not usually precievable in sober, 3d space time..like looping in on itself over and over out from the solar plexus chakra..

Jesus I dunno if this is going to make any sense to anyone else..it's so hard to describe the experience because it's so much more than a trip..it's a relation ship with a spirit, a spirit as vast as a multiverse..in a way it reminds me of when I met ayahuasca in person..but only in a way..

Another thing is the visions dont even seem to happen with the eyes..I could loose both my eyes and it wouldnt make a damn difference in that place..it's sort of even beyond my third eye..although it's involved..

I was actaully sort of climbing up into another dimension that was so vast and was located up to the top right of my skull..grasping the membrane where it intersected above my right eyeball and attempting to sort of pull myslef into that other place...

Thats another thing about salvia that is so interesting..vast dimensions and landscapes filled with other beings INSIDE of me..yet once there they are also outside of me..I think this has to do with some sort of etheric aspect of the soul leaving this dimensional plane..but the physical body cannot make that trip, and the bodies physical sense organs go sort of haywire trying to make sense of it..until you hit a high enough dose and the physical body is fully forgotten..

I am almost convinced now that I am experiencing other parallel realities that are as real as this one, through the spirit of salvia..like she is a shamanic facilitator..some sort of conductor for a voyage so powerful and shocking without her guidence one could really get lost and never ever find they're way back..

It's sort of like sailing out into the open seas for the first time without a map...
 
[quote='Coatl]When the traditional shamans learned that Salvia divinorum was smoked they were appalled! They said that this would make the spirit of Salvia very unhappy![/quote]

Actually, SWIM understands this. Speaking in animistic terms (however uncharacteristic of SWIM), it would seem that salvia's been doing just about everything in its power to prevent itself from being smoked, though our hubris has made short work of these efforts. SWIM's first attempt at smoking salvia was incredibly powerful and vivid, but reduced SWIM to lower state than he's ever encountered before. All subsequent attempts have been decidedly bland, though still powerful. Salvia was only able to give SWIM what he wanted from it that one time though at a cost, but that seemed to be the end of his grace period.

Smoking does seem to tear substances right open and gets to the heart of what that substance is, and salvia seems to be among oddest in this respect. SWIM's experiences have left him skeptical as to the value of salvia in general, but though SWIM will likely never smoke it again, some day he'll give it another chance with a quid.
 
I think that in alot of cases people are looking for something more simple and quickly explainable than the experience salvia can offer..and definatily something more contollable..with salvia you really have to surrender, to an unmatched degree.
 
I have heard people day that it brought them to a lower state..but I dont fully agree..I think it can just frighten people with it's bizareness..1 or 2 or 3 experiences with salvia wont give someone much of a picture as to what it is. It took me probabily 30 trips to even start to get some sort of an inkling of a picture as to what this thing might actaully be, I kept doing it becasue it was facinating..I am too curious, but not becasue I was finding enlightenment..not at first, although for me it is there ...my first real experiences were horrible..but that was all me..it was a reflection of where I was at..of my resiliance to let go from what was known..if you are holding onto the idea of a nice trip than maybe it's not for you..ego death isn't a nice thing to go through more often than not..anyone and they're mother can handle the good trips:wink:

I doubt if you went to Mexico, where the mazatec use salvia..noone takes salvia once or twice(or any entheogen for that matter) and says "Aha! So that's what this is all about!" No..it takes years of this type of experimentation to begin to figure it out...The fact is that MOST people will be completley appauled the first few times they take a high dose of salvia..smoked or quidded..

If peopel are taking salvia looking for they're higher or lower selves in the conventional sense of the terms in that realm than they might as well not go..salvia is something NEW..something completely NOVEL. Where it takes us seems uncharted in every way...it's the alienness of it that put's people off in my opinion..people go into it with EXPECTATIONS, that wont be met...it's not so much that it falls short of those expectations..but more like they dont even make sense once over there, completely irrelevant.

Taking salvia canbe like making a huge sacrifice..sometimes you have to put away all the other stuff and attatchments we have..to everything. What we get from tryptamines, cannabis, other dissociatives, other spiritual traditions etc...usually doesnt translate over...weather or not people like salvia..it is still there.

I had a hard time with this andstill do sometimes, becasue I love DMT and mushrooms so much, and would like to think that they explain the entire cosmos to me...but they dont. I have seen thay they are only a part of it..there is more. When I take salvia can't deny that..makes me feel like everything I have learned is like a grain of sand slowly slipping away through the cracks of my fingers..But I go back again and again becasue I am an explorer..I think that it's important..to explore at all costs. Thats what shamanism is about.
 
PsilocybeChild said:
Great posts fractal :d Really informative thread for people that are, or would be, scared off from salvia.
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Hmm..I get the feeling you are her friend as well...you wouldn't happen to hang out over at the entheogen forums would you:wink:...
 
fractal enchantment said:
I am almost convinced now that I am experiencing other parallel realities that are as real as this one
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SO TRUE! The dreamer met every version of himself in the place where every parallel universe is connected... which was crushing for his ego that had previously clinged onto the proud idea that he is unique or special!

He recommends that every psychenaut tries smoking the strongest extract they can find! Dreamer has experienced the most abject horror as well as ecstacy, but it has only enriched his life. Just be sure to tie yourself down first.
 
I doubt if you went to Mexico, where the mazatec use salvia..noone takes salvia once or twice(or any entheogen for that matter) and says "Aha! So that's what this is all about!" No..it takes years of this type of experimentation to begin to figure it out.
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It certainly is a personal story slowly unfolding.
I've experimented with quidding while it was still legal. Well, it's something else. It's so weird, that you slip into the experience without seeing anything...let me rephrase that: The visuals don't seem to have any connections to your state of mind. It seems impossible to make the experience up. There's a distinct sense of otherworldliness. No spice euphoria, no nothing...just bizarre creatures, you melting with otherworldy goopy substances...that's at least my experience.

There is something VERY VERY VERY fascinating about this plant. I did not learn much but it's so dark and impossible to decipher. If I had to put my finger on it, I'd say that you can visit the land of the dead. Neither paradiese nor hell...but something in between. A dark place under the earth, where the dead roam as white gnomes.

But that's just an interpretation because I've seen these beeings running away from me with huge christian crosses, while others seemed to be pretty excited to see me. But they always appeared to be using me as a toy somehow.

I'd like to do it again in a country where it's legal, but I'm not sure. It always left me in a spooky state of mind.....
 
obliguhl said:
I doubt if you went to Mexico, where the mazatec use salvia..noone takes salvia once or twice(or any entheogen for that matter) and says "Aha! So that's what this is all about!" No..it takes years of this type of experimentation to begin to figure it out.
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It certainly is a personal story slowly unfolding.
I've experimented with quidding while it was still legal. Well, it's something else. It's so weird, that you slip into the experience without seeing anything...let me rephrase that: The visuals don't seem to have any connections to your state of mind. It seems impossible to make the experience up. There's a distinct sense of otherworldliness. No spice euphoria, no nothing...just bizarre creatures, you melting with otherworldy goopy substances...that's at least my experience.

There is something VERY VERY VERY fascinating about this plant. I did not learn much but it's so dark and impossible to decipher. If I had to put my finger on it, I'd say that you can visit the land of the dead. Neither paradiese nor hell...but something in between. A dark place under the earth, where the dead roam as white gnomes.

But that's just an interpretation because I've seen these beeings running away from me with huge christian crosses, while others seemed to be pretty excited to see me. But they always appeared to be using me as a toy somehow.

I'd like to do it again in a country where it's legal, but I'm not sure. It always left me in a spooky state of mind.....
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Salvia's effects are so hard to put into words, even more so than DMT I think.
But man you did a really great job of explaining the physical effects in particular obliguhl.

I'm really not too fond of those feelings (either smoked or Quid) & it's such a pain in the ass to do correctly, I've not experimented with Salvia in over a year.


WS
 
Yes, there is a strange body thing going on. It has been a major part of every experience.
It felt like moving up and down in a dark, very dimly lit elevator chamber...no my mind was melting up and down, and this movement would increase with concentration on the experience. Then a green grid of some kind would appear with brief visions of being deep underground flying around the root of a tree in a cave.

Both times, these little beeing would call and I'd follow. Then, the feeling of a door shut. No escape now.

Once, there was this beam of energy going thru my body ..my throat to be prcise and I would ride on that beam deeper and deepr into my body....thenb, the melting thing...very very strange...

Structures...very organic but alien like structures, blops of alien slime and me melting with them...each of these structures representing a word with no apparant meaning..beeing spoken. It would get louder with concentration...and also the melting process would speed up...I was melting WITH and melting..in terms of melting down at the same moment...

Somewhere on this board is a more detailed report.
 
I would almost always get flashes, or total reenactments of random, mundane experiences from my childhood...but not from the first person point of view, it's like I'm experiencing the whole thing, emotions, thoughts, etc... but from a non-local position.

I remember one were I was playing in the grass next to the road, a block away from the house I lived in until I was 8yrs old.
I was playing with my friends, like we always did...I could feel the wind & the cool grass, I could hear my thoughts & recent memories of that day & the day before.

It was just like I was really back there again...except...I was watching this from what seemed like the perspective of a small blade of grass!!
I was down very, very low!! Everything I saw was towering above me!
Even though I was still experiencing everything else from my normal human perspective!!

At the same time, I (as in the "I" that is typing this) was also in a third location observing the whole thing!!
Unfortunately I didn't remember smoking the Salvia...didn't know who/what "I" was. (another thing that happens to me almost every time with Salvia)
Which made the panic set in!!!
I didn't know which "me" was actually me!! Or what that even meant. I just knew that what was going on, was much more than was supposed to be going on at any one time & it was freaking me out to the Nth degree!!


Yup...that was a tense one!!
But I wouldn't ever call it "bad", or an "angry plant spirit"!!
That is really just a rationalization of your own fear of an extremely alien situation that overpowers you. You have to be able to let go & feel the whole moment, without trying to change it.

Or maybe the "salvia spirits" just like me more than you...or something like that.:roll:


WS
 
when you smoke salvia it becomes angry as though you have raped its essence, in turn it rapes you for smoking it

when you chew it, it is accepting of its use and provides the experience sought after. it is not nearly as terrifying as it is when smoking it


dont smoke salvia
eat magical salads instead



paz y luz

p.s. if i cant convince you, look indigenously its not like sit and chief down bowls of salvia ever...
 
W, that's an amazin experience you had. It doesn't interlock one bit with my experiences and I can't imagine experience something like you have....but it sounds sure fascinating and provides grounds for envy. :d
 
suicybe said:
when you smoke salvia it becomes angry as though you have raped its essence, in turn it rapes you for smoking it

when you chew it, it is accepting of its use and provides the experience sought after. it is not nearly as terrifying as it is when smoking it


dont smoke salvia
eat magical salads instead..


Please dont spread lies..this stuff is highly subjective..you're experience does not apply to everyone who smokes salvia..obviousily..or did you skip over the the positive reports in this thread?..jeeze. Posts like this make you loose credability when making other posts..makes you seem overly-biased(and a bit histarical)..

Explaining subjective experience is one thing..stating is as objective fact for others is another. Maybe she just didn't like YOU smoking her..maybe YOU did something wrong..she seems fine with me.




"p.s. if i cant convince you, look indigenously its not like sit and chief down bowls of salvia ever..."


Yes well I dont see any natives smoking DMT either..or drinking pharma..extracting cacti and morning glories etc..

You might as well go live in a hut and shit in a dirt hole fromnow on as well if you really think that the native ways are somehow holier than everyone elses..you might as well give up you're membership here as well because some shamans may think that all these teks and topic are disrespecting to the mimosa spirit.

Just because I like to take my mushrooms as a tea doesn that somehow make me disrespectful becasue the mazatecs eat them?
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obliguhl said:
W, that's an amazin experience you had. It doesn't interlock one bit with my experiences and I can't imagine experience something like you have....but it sounds sure fascinating and provides grounds for envy. :d
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Well apparently I was just being raped by an angry plant.?.?.?.?:roll:


WS
 
well fractal it is my opinion and i am offering it
heres something you may not know, i dont advocate pharma, or smoking dmt, nor do i advocate anything but shamanic plants. Those plants i believe have had thousands of years use and there is a pretty solid guide down for using such entheogens. i may shit in a hole and live in a bivouac and i would be happy as a clam. Me smoking salvia is what it didnt like, as far as my intentions go all other entheogenic experiences have been benevolent and full of lesson, smoking salvia dosent fit the bill in that area, i would kindly like to remind you that because you think you know everything and have modernized isolated entheogenic alkaloids, does not make you right in any sense. Look at what modernization has done to our species longevity, our planets longevity. why would mimicing that advancement somehow make you better than the indigenous users.
my opinion will remain that salvia smokes you
 
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