pitubo said:
ShamenStamen, I strongly disagree with you about the above statements.
My own exeperiences have been very much like what Jees has already described. First an overreacted fear of the deadly powers of maoi's. After the initial experiences, a growing disbelief and disconcern about all I had read about diets (apart from the ssri warnings). Then a third phase of gradual discovery of the real effects that "restricted" foods do have on my experiences. Tyramine is one example, cafeine another. These two also have noticeably different effects on me. And then there are other substances, such as licorice, whose effects have also caught me with surprise.
I will even go further than Jees, because I have on several occasions been bitten by bad interactions quite nastily. It was quite scary, too, on some of these occasions. All of these instances were caused by my own stupidity, carelessness and otherwise preventable lapses of reason. Not in all cases, but still in the majority, alcohol played a large role. Ingesting harmalas subsequent to several consumptions of alcohol has given me what in hindsight appears like a mild serotonin storm. This was not a bad trip or an otherwise psychologically challenging experience of sorts, this was an acute poisoning.
Even without the presence of alcohol, I've had seizure-like effects from food eaten two hours before ingesting pharmahuasca. I suspect badly processed chick pea meal, but I am not sure. Due to the severity of the effects experienced, I would rather not experiment with it to pinpoint the exact cause.
ShamensStamen please refrain from telling people to throw caution to the wind when ingesting harmalas.
Pitubo - First off, i'm by no means telling people to "throw caution to the wind", i actually tell people quite regularly to be cautious and i myself am cautious when doing any experimenting as well. Secondly, i'm not doubting that Tyramine has an effect on people, what i'm saying though is that the Tyramine issue is highly over-exaggerated and that a lot of people are quick to say Tyramine did it when there could be other explanations for it. The easiest way, that i know of, to put this to the test, would be to use Moclobemide and see if Tyramine interacts with Moclobemide (if anyone notices anything). Because Moclobemide acts only as a RIMA and doesn't do anything else, unlike the Harmalas since they do a lot more than simply inhibit MAO-A.
Heck, i think i'll give it a go sometime soon, gotta find some high Tyramine foods though. I'v eaten tons of sauerkraut on many occasions during strong dosages of Rue, haven't had an issue. I also eat a lot of chocolate, i love my cheeses, i eat yogurt, i love sour cream on my tacos (or baked potatoes), i eat fish, beef, and pork, i eat bananas from time to time, as well as peanuts, and processed meats, still, i haven't had an issue. I will agree though that Alcohol, like beer or liquor, ime, doesn't seem to mix well with the Harmalas, but i'm not convinced it's because of Tyramine, i think it has something to do with something the Alcohol is doing that's interfering with something the Rue is doing. And i should try the licorice thing, see if anything happens for me.
And "seizure-like effects from food eaten two hours before ingesting pharmahuasca", was the seizure-like effects during the Pharmahuasca? And you know, strong dosages of Harmaline, because of it's GABA-A inverse agonism, can cause seizures, convulsions, and tremors, as well as generate anxiety, right? Not saying that that's what it was, but i guess it could be a possibility. Another possibility that i've read about on the Shroomery, is people having seizures on Shrooms because of possible low blood sugar if i'm not mistaken, so i'm assuming that could be applied to Harmalas or Harmala+DMT combo as well.
But anyways, i haven't had an issue, most people haven't had an issue, and the science on the matter suggests that Harmalas, as well as Moclobemide, being reversible inhibitors of MAO-A, that in the presence of Tyramine, the Harmalas/Moclobemide will displace themselves from the enzyme, thus freeing up MAO-A.
Remember, the gut MAO-A is only inhibited for the first couple of hours or so, after that gut MAO-A is no longer inhibited. And the easiest way to figure that out, is by trying to take DMT sometime after taking the Harmalas, and if you wait too long, the gut MAO-A enzyme will no longer be inhibited thus DMT will not be active, and if it were still inhibited, DMT would be active. Moclobemide is the same way. But while the gut MAO-A enzyme is free after a certain amount of time, the brain MAO-A remains inhibited for a longer amount of time. Also, with Harmala teas, rather than capsules, the amount of time MAO-A in the gut remains inhibited, could be less than two hours, ime, because back when i was using Rue extract teas, i noticed the timing was different between the Rue and Mimosa, and if i waited an hour to drink my Mimosa tea it was too late and things didn't seem to activate properly.
