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Yopo/Cebil Snuff preparation

Migrated topic.
Dorge said:
thats awesome... hell yes!
So...
with vilca you get about 4 levels of intoxication. body high, black and white hypongogic imagery, dream like in nature. and then the full on color visions, fractline amazement... then that turns into full on color visions. Do you get the last one too with this?
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Yeah that sounds about right..I also notice that the last stage can have visuals that are much more roundish and smooth in nature in comparison to the main peak where everything is very geometric..and distinctly geometric..the whole thing is very aztec/mayan/chavin looking..to the point where my entire room transorms into something resembling a chavin temple with all these beings walking in and out of the walls, flyingaround etc..and with eyes closed I travel..and there is that actauly sense of movement with it as well..I actaulyl feel as if I am flying.

The very last stage of the experience the sedative effects really kick in and I am prone to pass right out If laying in bed into a series of psychedelic dreams..in this stage I can really interact with the beings and everything becasue my normal waking ego is basically removed, its almost like sleeping but more like a deep trance.

When taken at the peak of an ayahuasca experience, it really potentiates the brew just as much as the brew potentiates the vilca. The DMT in the brew(even with very light doses of brew) really clears up the bufotenine visions and adds an extra crystaline dimension to the experiene, and also sort of sucks you into it a bit more..its more like smoking DMT..but still totally different..it's really hard to explain. The brew makes it more mentally psychedelic and you can real feel the ayahuasca helping to open you up to the vilca..it's my favorite way to take vilca changa now. It is still very very visionary when the vilca changa is taken alone, but I really like the way the 2 interact. You dont need a strong brew for this effect at all..20g of caapi and 1-2 grams of mimosa is enough for me to have the ayahuasca totally open the road within for the vilca to do it's thing..I dose about 45 minutes after I drink the brew..once I am feeling the brews euphoric rushes and music is enhanced..I just meditiate with the brew for that first 45 minutes then take the vilca..always in the dark.

Oh yes, and vilca by itself is a very empathic and meditive sort of entheogen for me..its not so much of a mindwarp as psilocin or DMT..its different. That wuality makes it very useful for going deep deep into the visionary realms, meeting with spirits and traveling etc, without having to worry to much about loing your mind for a while. When taken with ayahausca though it has put me far far out there with some very interesting mental effect.
 
interesting... SWIM is wondering if there can be a quick make with this...

Take Vilca seeds toast, grind with WET limestone paste, powder, Soak in ethanol in jar placed in heat bath, shake, heat bath, shake... strain. Do over three times...
Evap onto caapi leaf.
 
Hey you guys, do you NEED to put lime in it? can I mix in baking soda in instead? I only have like 2 doses.

And can I put it in a straw and have someone blow it in my nose?
 
do you find with lime that it is ever too much base and something inactive is created if you leave it too long to react?..69ron swears that this happens the odd time when he uses lime, but he is talking about lime with pure bufotenine..he swears that freebase bufotenine is extremely visionary and active..and my experience confirms that for me as well..though I never did use baking soda..only sodium carbonate..it seems to get the PH up enough to make it extremely visionary for me..but there is still naustea and constriction at the onset, with the occasional purge, but usually only if I dose it fast enough to actaully induce the purge on purpose.

I am real curious as to lime preperations though. I have heard that when you snuff vilca or yopo, sodium carb isnt a strong enough base, only for smoking will it do the trick, due to the PH change that happens in the sinus cavity I guess.. When I get some lime I will prepare it with that and see how it compares..and do some snuff experiments as well.

Is there nausea when you work with the snuff dorge?..and have you tried adding powdered caapi directly to the snuff before? I first heard of the Piaroa shamans adding powdered caapi directly to the snuff, and they are known apparently as master yopo makers to the neighbouring tribes..they also drink and chew caapi vine before hand at times. The caapi does seem to add to the experience for me..I started a thread about it months back. I will find it and link to it..
 
fractal enchantment said:
do you find with lime that it is ever too much base and something inactive is created if you leave it too long to react?..69ron swears that this happens the odd time when he uses lime, but he is talking about lime with pure bufotenine..he swears that freebase bufotenine is extremely visionary and active..and my experience confirms that for me as well..though I never did use baking soda..only sodium carbonate..it seems to get the PH up enough to make it extremely visionary for me..but there is still naustea and constriction at the onset, with the occasional purge, but usually only if I dose it fast enough to actaully induce the purge on purpose.

I am real curious as to lime preperations though. I have heard that when you snuff vilca or yopo, sodium carb isnt a strong enough base, only for smoking will it do the trick, due to the PH change that happens in the sinus cavity I guess.. When I get some lime I will prepare it with that and see how it compares..and do some snuff experiments as well.

Is there nausea when you work with the snuff dorge?..and have you tried adding powdered caapi directly to the snuff before? I first heard of the Piaroa shamans adding powdered caapi directly to the snuff, and they are known apparently as master yopo makers to the neighbouring tribes..they also drink and chew caapi vine before hand at times. The caapi does seem to add to the experience for me..I started a thread about it months back. I will find it and link to it..
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jesus thats wyrd I was just going to post about that. yes! that will happen with snuff thats need made and allowed to stick around in a humid area for a while. the snuff will get weaker and then it will actually turn almost black like it got burned. at that point its useless.

Ive heard about that with aya but no SWIMS never tried that... the smoked yopo sounds great with changa, and no spice... swims sinuses cant really work with the snuff much any more. And swim wants a simple method of exraction that actually works....

There can be nausea when its snuffed, but here is the trick, slow but really hard deep breaths like controled hyper ventilation, like your blowing out a candle from far away. you do this in the begining through the nausea and the constriction and you will be ok... this is how you turn it into a real shamanic trance too... also helps if you have a rattle or something to shake or do, SWIM thinks its important to move or do something while working with it or you get that nasuea. It like ok you just want to go in... then we will clean it up in there first. but if you just focus and ground while doing that breath... wow... no nausea no vomiting.
 
So on that note of it burning if it been exposed to lime to long how long would one allow it to soak in a Ethanol and lime solution?
 
For the snuff the only base I have used is Sodium Carbonate and Sodium Bicarbonate. They have both worked well, I have not noticed any siginificant differances.

And trust me I've really broken trough on my snuffs.

So on that note of it burning if it been exposed to lime to long how long would one allow it to soak in a Ethanol and lime solution?
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I want an aswer to this to. I'm about to go get some lime today and try a simple extraction again. Last time I tried extracting Bufo I failed but I think it were becouse of the seeds("fat type" Maya free item). Really looking forward to a successfull bufo-resin for smoking :) Just cleaned out my bubbler yesterday for conversion to vaporizer.


And Fractal could you go more into detail on your process extracting? Or is just to soak the seeds in IPA a couple of times collect solids and let it evap to a resin? (found a post of you in the extraction thread. So no need to explain more I guess)


Maybe we should move this extraction talk to a extraction thread. Dunno feels a bit OT :p


Thank you
 
Just a question, since I've got already powdered yopo seeds: how much does a seed weight, more or less?
and how can I understand, by toasting it, when are they ready since they don't pop?

It's a bit of problem, since all guides, and discussions, are based on seed numbers =D

Thanks
 
Swim got seeds that varied sizewise, but if if you are about to try it, take a gram of powdered seeds, warm it up in a pan at medium for a couple of minutes, it will smell like roasted peanut.
Then prepair it the same way up here. Then tried a tiny amount if used nasally, cause it's pretty harsh on the nostril. After a minute or so, you can try 0.1 and work your way up evrery three minutes. The thing is it is rather painful up the nose.
 
ok, thanks, so is like 3 grams is a nice dosage. I'll prepare a 10 grams, and
I didn't know about the possibility to take it with a pause, I'll do it.
I've read many recipes for preparation, strange they use seed as a meter, since they vary a lot from seed to seed.

Thanks again.
Arimane
 
Yeah you have fat type seeds that are most popular and potent it seems but I've came across seeds a quarter the size of this fat type seeds...
Just warm it up without burning it.

And it is actually better to take it gradually than in one go. You'd better buid up the effects.
Good luck with that!
 
Fryed up 20 cebil seeds, decoated, ground and added approx 1/3 dried chunks of calcium hydroxide (not sure if it's converted). Added distilled water to make a small ball, kneeded ball for around 10 min. Broke up mixture and let dry. Ground up the dryed chunks and left in the air for a day. Stored in a Chinese snuff bottle.

Okay.

Smoked changa, drank aya, more changa, decide to test the snuff towards the end of the Aya journey. Snuffed around a thumbnails worth -

Slight burning, nothing close to as bad as I was expecting - burning gone in around a minute.

3 minutes, legs started to go numb, started feeling nausea.

5 minutes, purged for around 20 minutes.

Extreme visuals, geometric designs, heavy body load, nausea.

Rolled over and rode it out.

Came to in what seemed like an hour - was like I just woke up but I don't think I went to sleep.

Vilca is grand end to an Aya journey
 
IAAGSOM said:
soulfood said:
For snuffs I'd always use Calcium hydroxide.

Sodium carbonate will hit any moisture in you pretty hard and soak right in. Calcium hydroxide doesn't seem to do this.
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So with hydroxide it would not hurt as much? Is that what you're saying?
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Hydroxide does not absorb water well but it is much more caustic than sodium carbonate. Calcium Hydroxide will damage oral and nasal tissue more than Calcium Carbonate. That is why I got so many bloody noses. It wouldn't have been so bad if I had snorted water after I came down from my journey.
 
VisualDistortion said:
IAAGSOM said:
soulfood said:
For snuffs I'd always use Calcium hydroxide.

Sodium carbonate will hit any moisture in you pretty hard and soak right in. Calcium hydroxide doesn't seem to do this.
Click to expand...


So with hydroxide it would not hurt as much? Is that what you're saying?
Click to expand...

Hydroxide does not absorb water well but it is much more caustic than sodium carbonate. Calcium Hydroxide will damage oral and nasal tissue more than Calcium Carbonate. That is why I got so many bloody noses. It wouldn't have been so bad if I had snorted water after I came down from my journey.
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To make the psychedelic snuff called yopo, the black beans from the bean pods of these trees are first toasted until the beans pop like popcorn breaking the bean's husk. The roasting process facilitates removal of the husk and makes the beans easier to grind into a powder. The bean's husk is usually removed because it is difficult to powderise and adds unnecessary volume. The bean is then ground with a mortar and pestle into a powder and mixed with a natural form of calcium hydroxide (lime) or calcium oxide (from certain types of ashes, calcined shells, etc.). This mix is then moistened to a consistency similar to bread dough, using a small amount of water. If calcium oxide is used, the water will react with it to form calcium hydroxide. Once moistened, it is kneaded into a ball for several minutes. After kneading, it is then left to sit for several hours to several days, depending on the local customs. During this period most of the excess calcium hydroxide reacts with the carbon dioxide in the air to form less caustic calcium carbonate (carbonatation). <Anadenanthera peregrina - Wikipedia>

According to Wiki using either hydroxide, oxide or carbonate??? will, with the right preparation result in carbonate.
 
Id imagine that the traditional piroa preperation from my other thread linked to above would be ideal for snuffing..they dont use pure calcium hydroxide..they use ashes from specific tree barks and sometimes shells..im sure pure calcium hydroxide burns much more..Im not positive though..i never snuff the stuff I extract and smoke it.

I cant stress enough the importance of the caapi either..the piaroa do drink caapi tea with the snuff at times..and I personally dont even take it really without frist drinking ayahuasca, either vine only or vine with light. Even just adding the harmalas to make vilca changa is nothing campared to drinking 15g of vine first, although making changa is at least superior to bufo without harmalas at all. I simply cannot get the same effects from smoking harmalas with it as I can with drinking a brew first..bufotenine taken durring the effects of a caapi brew is far far superior to bufotenine alone IMO..bufotenine all by itslef is still very visual, but its more sketchy, less beautiful, and much less meaningful than with caapi. With caapi its much more submersive and realistic, more DMT-like. They are like 2 diff things..without the caapi, bufotenine is just lacking its other half..thats how I feel after numerous experiments with bufotenine alone and with many many diff admix combinations.
 
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