1P-ETH-LAD

[Ufostrahlen]

Some wellknown reptile lab rats have successfully materialized 1P-ETH-LADas a proof-of-concept. There's absolutely no data out there, so I can't write a specific wiki safety page, but I guess it behaves like ETH-LAD in the same fashion 1P-LSD relates to LSD (mainly prodrug action).

 

[Godsmacker]

I'm sure Continuum would loooove to hear about this little lysergamidic lovechild...

Definitely looks interesting. ETH-LAD and 1p are interesting and crisp on their own... I wonder how this drug would compare to combining 1P and ETH-LAD in a single session... Thoughts?

 

[Ufostrahlen]

I'm sure Continuum would loooove to hear about this little lysergamidic lovechild...

Definitely looks interesting. ETH-LAD and 1p are interesting and crisp on their own... I wonder how this drug would compare to combining 1P and ETH-LAD in a single session... Thoughts?

Certainly different, because 1P-LSD (1P-METH-LAD) metabolizes to METH-LAD (LSD) and ETH-LAD (N-ethyl-nor-LSD or 6ETH-LSD for short) is uniquely active on it's own. So mixing ETH-LAD and 1P-LSD doesn't equate to 1P-ETH-LAD. It equates more to mixing ETH-LAD and LSD.

Spoiler for image background fix:

Spoiler

1. 1P-ETH-LAD

2. 1P-METH-LAD

3. METH-LAD, without the 1P group

 

[Godsmacker]

I'm sure Continuum would loooove to hear about this little lysergamidic lovechild...

Definitely looks interesting. ETH-LAD and 1p are interesting and crisp on their own... I wonder how this drug would compare to combining 1P and ETH-LAD in a single session... Thoughts?

Certainly different, because 1P-LSD (1P-METH-LAD) metabolizes to METH-LAD (LSD) and ETH-LAD (6ETH-LSD) is uniquely active on it's own due to the different N-6 position in the ergoline system. So mixing ETH-LAD and 1P-LSD doesn't equate to 1P-ETH-LAD. It equates more to mixing ETH-LAD and LSD.

Spoiler for image background fix:

Spoiler

1. 1P-ETH-LAD

2. 1P-METH-LAD

3. METH-LAD, without the 1P group

May you post a link to any studies/publications showing that 1P-LSD is actually metabolized in vivo into LSD? I don't know if there are any papers out there proving this hypothesis, and am very interested to find out. While case/experience reports of 1p-LSD intoxication suggest its very, if not almost entirely similar in subjective effects to LSD, its still unclear as to whether 1p-LSD itself is causing the effects, or if it is being rapidly metabolized into LSD. Considering that its come-on time is similar to LSD, idk how true the metabolic hypothesis may be; if it is true that 1p-LSD is a prodrug, instead of an active drug all on its own, then wouldn't its time of onset be slightly delayed compared with LSD? Also, how does 1p compare with METH-LAD in terms of polarity and charge distribution? A talk/paper by David Nichols discussing alterations to the N, N-diethyl bond as well as the N-alkyl side chain suggested that substitutions to these regions of the molecule produced marked changes in rodents and (according to Krystal Kole) people as well. It has also been suggested that these regions of the molecule are responsible for both its effects and extremely high affinity at serotonin receptors (i.e. the body of LSD may be thought of as the smooth body of a Key and the N-alkyl chains are the jagged bumps and grooves on the key which tickle the tumblers of the receptors they "unlock". The formation, pattern and characteristics of those jagged grooves (the alkyl substituents on the tertiary amide and amine groups) may have a profound impact on its affinity for its target receptors, as well as the subjective and objective pharmacological effects produced by the molecule when binding to the receptor). When Nichols and Shulgin altered the N,N-diethyl group as well as the N-methyl group, profound pharmacological/pharmacodynamic/pharmacokinetic differences were observed between these analogues and their parent compound.

While alkyl group substitutions at the amide and 7-amine positions of LSD changed the psychoactive effects of the drug profoundly, it appears that substituting the hydrogen on the amine group at the bottom of LSD with various 1-ketoalkyl chains (e.g. 1p-LSD, ALD-52, etc) produces little, if not any change at all in the subjective effects of LSD, according to many subjective experiences. However, as with 1p, ALD-52's metabolism is poorly understood as well; I can't find any studies in the literature discussing the metabolic pathway of ALD-52 as well. However, limited experience reports of suspected ALD-52 suggest that it, too, produces subjective effects similar to LSD. Perhaps the part of the molecule that determines its activity at SERT receptors lies on the opposite side of the molecule and that minor substituents to the secondary amine group.

Buuuut....

What would happen if one were to sample 1-butionyl (1b)-LSD, or 1-Pentionyl LSD? Would increasing the size of the chain cause a clear and definite/noticeable change the subjective and objective (i.e. duration, onset, dosage, etc.) effects of the drug? Also, how would further increases in the length and/or addition of possible other substituents along the 1-ketoalkyl chain found in 1p-LSD and ALD-52 change the charge distribution of the molecule, and could there be a theoretical "tipping point" at which the addition of X number of carbons to the 1-Ketoalkyl group will show significant changes in the subjective and objective pharmacological properties of the drug?

I don't expect answers to any of these questions, I just wanted to share these questions with the community and general public at large in the hope that someone with the resources, initiative, connections and abilities needed to find the answers to these questions may be able to enlighten us with a solution.

Selah

 

[Ufostrahlen]

May you post a link to any studies/publications showing that 1P-LSD is actually metabolized in vivo into LSD?

Not in vivo but close:

Other N1-substituted lysergamides undergo extensive
N1-dealkylation in vivo,
[73–75] and it is possible that 1P-LSD is hydrolyzed
to LSD. Indeed, ALD-52 is equipotent with LSD in humans [76]
and is considered to serve as a pro-drug, although this does not
seem to have ever been confirmed empirically. In order to gain
initial insights into the potential for hydrolysis, 1P-LSD was exposed
to incubation in human serum at 37°C followed by LC-MS analysis
in selective ion monitoring mode. As shown in the Supporting
Information, LSD detection was observed under a variety of
exposure times. Follow-up studies are currently being conducted
to compare the affinity and selectivity of LSD and 1P-LSD at 5-HT
receptors, and to determine whether 1P-LSD is hydrolyzed to LSD
in vivo

Welcome to the DMT-Nexus

For the rest: IDK

 

[Continuum]

Ha ha... glad to see I've made it in the thread before even seeing it. My love for the novel lysergamides precedes me. :lol:

Another on the list now, for sure.

And, just for reference, 1P and ETH-LAD are wonderful in combination. I prefer 1P to the ETH, but both are amazing, and they synergize well. We've tried the combo with various mics, usuallty totaling 350- 400ug with varying levels of each. I'd estimate we've done the combo 5-6 times, and each has been beautiful ('cept that one, Godsmacker. Holy crap, don't get food poisoning on 400 mics :shock: ).

 

[downwardsfromzero]

What would happen if one were to sample 1-butionyl (1b)-LSD, or 1-Pentionyl LSD? Would increasing the size of the chain cause a clear and definite/noticeable change the subjective and objective (i.e. duration, onset, dosage, etc.) effects of the drug? Also, how would further increases in the length and/or addition of possible other substituents along the 1-ketoalkyl chain found in 1p-LSD and ALD-52 change the charge distribution of the molecule, and could there be a theoretical "tipping point" at which the addition of X number of carbons to the 1-Ketoalkyl group will show significant changes in the subjective and objective pharmacological properties of the drug?

I think you probably mean 'butyryl' (or butanoyl, same thing) and 'pentanoyl' (or valeryl for the old skool) but I get your drift. In fact that was my exact line of thinking straight off the bat. I got as far as arachidon(o)yl, for a lysergamide/anandamide hybrid

Just how long could the alkanoyl 1-substituent go? This would perhaps test out the prodrug hypothesis to some degree. And what about benzoyl, crotonyl or acrylyl and other unsaturated moieties? Speculative mind-w*nk non-chemistry I know, but could those with the capacity to synthesis look into this cos I can't (not right now )

 

[Ufostrahlen]

Ah yiss, the reptile overlords have materialized. This looks so professionally sealed, I dare not open it. But in a week or two I will. Trip report will follow.

 

[Ufostrahlen]

AAA WoW material. Smooth visuals, I feel completely loaded on 100µg. Nice CEVs.

 

[Continuum]

Does it feel like normal ETH-LAD?

 

[Ufostrahlen]

Does it feel like normal ETH-LAD?

Never took it, but it feels pretty much like 1P-LSD. Very light vasoconstriction, which is uncommon. Could be the 325µg Flubromazolam I took it with.

 

[Ufostrahlen]

For the record: 100µg 1P-ETH-LAD + 50µg 1P-LSD + 500µg Flubromazolam resulted in a fine psychedelic trip. ~ 12h duration, kinda back to baseline now. 500µg Flubromazolam is probably not necessary, 250µg might do the trick as well. No adverse effects, the cardiosystem felt good. Drank a green tea before tripping.

 

[Ufostrahlen]

So I took 150µg + 250µg Flubromazolam out of boredom/routine today.. *bam* *hyperslap*

Questions at the peak:

1) it's a novel RC, how many had 150µg already?
2) how can I be so arrogant?

*** afterglow in the making ***

 

[woogyboogy]

Hope your journey came to an good end Ufostrahlen!

Have you ever tried one of the lysergamides in a higher dose without adding a substance of the benzo class to it?

 

[Ufostrahlen]

Hope your journey came to an good end Ufostrahlen!

Thanks, I'm still tripping, but the peak is over.

Have you ever tried one of the lysergamides in a higher dose without adding a substance of the benzo class to it?

150µg AL-LAD... quite stupid, I was floored for some hours unable to move, the vasoconstriction was bad and the insights were 0. The whole trip took me ~17h. Nice optics tho.

But these are my limits, I doubt there comes something out good at higher dosages. This trip here hit me a little off guard, 150µg 1P-ETH-LAD is more potent than 150µg of LSD and mine is supposed to be ~ 99.5% pure, so not your average joe street acid.

 

[woogyboogy]

Interesting, for me 150µg AL-LAD where actually quite smooth and very relaxed, not as insightful as LSD or 1P, but a good substance for reflection I felt. On the other hand 120 of 1P have been pretty intense for me as well, but still manageable, but yeah definitly more intense for me then what was supposed to be the same dose of "normal" LSD. But for sure I also wouldnt take those doses on the light hand.

I was just wondering because Ive never combined any psychedelic with benzodiazepine on purpose(only at the end for sleep), and havent read about it a lot aswell. I think I wouldnt want to get myself into the trip, if I thought I couldnt handle it without aid..
My guess would have been that a lot of depth of the experience would be taken away..

 

[Ufostrahlen]

I was just wondering because Ive never combined any psychedelic with benzodiazepine on purpose(only at the end for sleep), and havent read about it a lot aswell. I think I wouldnt want to get myself into the trip, if I thought I couldnt handle it without aid..
My guess would have been that a lot of depth of the experience would be taken away, but you seem to prefer mixing the two hand in hand.

Yes, I'm weird. I also drink my beer from plastic bottles without alcohol and 50% mixed with isotonic sports drinks, otherwise I couldn't bear the taste or the psychotropic effects. It's my contrarian nature I guess. For the Benzos: I my mind they add to the trip instead of taking away. It's like a primer, others need incense or their buddha statue, I like a little pink pill to keep the evil entities at bay.