1P-LSD - Probably a Pro-Drug

[Infectedstyle]

Having tried both 4-AcO and mushies, I have found that there is a definite difference in the trip induced by each drug.
-Godsmacker

I've had mushrooms trips that were so different that you would have thought they were different drugs, but it was psilocybin both times.

Blessings
~ND

Yes me 2. I recall a similar interchange with you on this matter. I undoubtedly have similar trips when I take from the same batch. This seems to hold up for LSD as well. 4-aco-dmt (have one batch) is always relatively the same at the same dosage. Higher doses you would think that I am doing different drugs but as long as I stay in the same range it is almost like clockwork what happens. It is fairly unimpressive and colors are reddish mostly , visuals are static and unforming. Mushrooms have more green, blues and more organic visuals. These are from Smartshop Truffles. Home-grown mushrooms are very different beasts. All of the truffles are relatively the same to me.. atleast, I haven't been taking one batch for long enough to really find any similarities. The difference between Shrooms and Truffles is much more notable. So, my final thoughts are doubting if Alkaloids and "Stray Alkaloids" are possible suspects. Or if there is some "magnetic or wooey explanation. As we discussed in my thread. Ofcourse, you are free to disagree! Blessings 2u2

 

[Swarupa]

Had a chance for a second go with the 1P, and had one of the greatest trips of my life on 300ug. Pure magick.

I'd highly recommend it, especially if you don't have access to LSD.

(Chronic, got to try stargazing on a low dose of mushrooms the night before out in the middle of nowhere, and it was amazing. I could see across the Milky Way and even saw two shooting stars. Thanks for the suggestion).

Awesome! It'll be shrooming season here soon enough, hopefully the skies will clear at the right time...

As it was a light dose of mushrooms followed by a strong dose of 1P i'd imagine there was little tolerance?

 

[Continuum]

Yeah, I don't think the low dose of mushrooms messed with the 1P too much, and frankly, if it did, the result of what the 1P gave was utter perfection and any impact was a gift.

It was a moment that was powerful in its perfection (without being an insanely hard trip), and was the type of experience that felt less like prior events led up to it and more like it was the object pulling all prior events to that place out of time.

 

[Swarupa]

Quite a few people are saying that 1P-LSD is stronger than the LSD they have... the simplest explanation is that most LSD is underdosed but then i was chatting with a person that lays 1P-LSD and LSD recently, they claim that weight for weight 1P is ~20% more potent, far from proof but still interesting, perhaps not as simple as a pro-drug after all...

 

[Metanoia]

Quite a few people are saying that 1P-LSD is stronger than the LSD they have... the simplest explanation is that most LSD is underdosed but then i was chatting with the person that lays the 1P-LSD (and LSD) recently and they claim that weight for weight 1P is ~20% more potent, far from proof but still interesting, perhaps not as simple as a pro-drug after all...

This is very interesting, thanks for sharing!

I could tell immediately that it was definitely more potent. I had dosed LSD the previous weekend and was a little concerned that there would be some cross tolerance. Only to have that concern shattered beyond belief :lol:

They do seem to have incredibly similar action in the brain/body, 1P and LSD. But that could simply be due to the finesse of the chemistry rather than it being a prodrug. Either way, very fascinating substance :thumb_up:

 

[Lichen]

[...]Higher doses you would think that I am doing different drugs

This is something that I have noticed as well - your comment prompted me to start a topic on this very subject, and you might find it of some interest:

Mechanism for drugs that bind to multiple receptor sites

 

[Swarupa]

A quote from Dr Nichols a few months ago, thanks to Kman

"I am sure that the 1-propionyl would also hydrolyze off of an indole, but I don't know whether in vivo conditions would work. In a chemistry lab, you can get off an N-benzoyl, so an N-propionyl will probably come off too. But in the body? I don't know the answer to that. The compound would not be active as the N-propionyl however. Way that LSD docks into the 5-HT2A receptor, the indole NH hydrogen bonds to serine 5.46. With the propionyl, it won't fit into the receptor."

 

[Ufostrahlen]

And another quote from Dr. Nichols

Is 1P-LSD a prodrug to LSD?

David Nichols:

It is a prodrug, and is hydrolyzed in the body to LSD. A publication just came out in Drug Testing and Analysis.

Can a prodrug be more potent than their parent chemical?

David Nichols:

No, a prodrug won’t generally be more potent than the actual parent drug. In some cases, e.g. heroin, which is a prodrug for morphine, will get into the brain faster and at a higher concentration than morphine will; 10 mg of heroin would have more effect than 10 mg of morphine. But that is the exception.

As a prodrug, 1P-LSD becomes similar to LSD in its effects only after it’s been metabolized. While the debate for which new drugs will take over the market rages on, this interesting analogue of an old favorite is making its presence known.

http://detect-kit.com/is-1p-lsd-a-prodrug-to-lsd/

 

[Continuum]

So it's conclusive....definitely a prodrug?

 

[Continuum]

I really think the freshness has something to do with the potency too. There is something to be said for lab-grade, just made hits (and it's something very, very good!).

 

[WokeWave]

Hey guys.

I wondered what some of you may think about 1P-LSD?
What are your experiences?

Cheers

 

[dragonrider]

My experiences with it are quite positive. The only thing i don't like about it is the onset. After about two to three hours after ingestion, the effects are almost indistinguishable from LSD-25, for me. But those first two to three hours are pretty uncomfortable.

It takes a full two to three hours for me, before anything psychedelic happens. Before that it just feels like a caffeïn overdose to me.

How this substance affects you seems to depend very much on personal metabolism. Some people don't experience any discomfort at all, and some find it to be very different from LSD-25.

I think that maybe some people directly experience the effects of 1P-LSD itself, while others first metabolise it into LSD-25.

 

[WokeWave]

Oh okay....2 to 3 hours is a pretty long time. How long have your experiences been in total?
And how big was your dosage?
Did you ever do it on two consecutive days? If yes...did the tolerance already build up?
A friend of mine got a few with 100 micrograms. I think i'll give them a try.

 

[entheogenic-gnosis]

1P-LSD is near identical to LSD in experience, the propionyl grouping at position one is thought to be metabolized away shortly after ingestion, leaving the needed NH grouping on the pyrrole ring, giving LSD in vivo.

Personally, I feel This is accurate. (it at least feels like 1P-LSD is a pro-drug to LSD)

N-acetyl-LSD (ALD-52) is a homologue compound to 1P-LSD , only the propionyl grouping is in this case is an acetyl grouping. when Nick sand was caught for manufacturing "Orange sunshine" he claimed he was actually making ALD-52, and while this may have been a tactic to avoid prosecution, ALD-52 May actually have been "Orange sunshine"

any way, in my case, I would say it's fairly indistinguishable from LSD itself, maybe some subtle differences, but they are minor.

-eg

 

[entheogenic-gnosis]

In this link, they are fairly confident that 1P was not a prodrug of LSD, despite the following excerpt provided by David E. Nichols:

We asked David E Nichols a few questions regarding this subject. Dr Nichols is the founding president of the Heffter Research Institute, a non-profit that researches medical uses for of psychedelic hallucinogens. He has been working in the psychoactive field since 1969, and was involved in the first human trials for MDMA under Alexander Shulgin.

Is 1P-LSD a prodrug to LSD?

David Nichols:

It is a prodrug, and is hydrolyzed in the body to LSD. A publication just came out in Drug Testing and Analysis.

Can a prodrug be more potent than their parent chemical?

David Nichols:

No, a prodrug won’t generally be more potent than the actual parent drug. In some cases, e.g. heroin, which is a prodrug for morphine, will get into the brain faster and at a higher concentration than morphine will; 10 mg of heroin would have more effect than 10 mg of morphine. But that is the exception.

As a prodrug, 1P-LSD becomes similar to LSD in its effects only after it’s been metabolized. While the debate for which new drugs will take over the market rages on, this interesting analogue of an old favorite is making its presence known.

https://detect-kit.com/is-1p-lsd-a-prodrug-to-lsd/

-eg

 

[3rdI]

i think its amazing, just as good, if not better, than any of the acid i have ever had.

it does seem quite variable from person to person, for me its pretty much identical to LSD, same come up, same effects but a slightly shorter duration and less twitchy when trying to sleep.

dosage wise i found that 100mics was similar to 200mic but 200mics was a little stronger, 300mics was a step up from 200mics, felt like the experience elevated a level and didnt just get stronger. 400mics was similar to 300mics but a little stronger, 500mics seemed like another step up in experience.
i took a 1mg along with some MDMA over an afternoon at a festival and it was wonderfull.

me and my friends have found that just swollowing your tabs, as oposed to putting them under your tongue, made them considerable stronger, it felt like they were nearly twice as strong at lower doses. my only guess as to why was that it had something to do with your stomach acid helping to convert the 1P to LSD, but thats just a guess.

its amazing stuff, proper proper proper lovely

 

[dragonrider]

Oh okay....2 to 3 hours is a pretty long time. How long have your experiences been in total?
And how big was your dosage?
Did you ever do it on two consecutive days? If yes...did the tolerance already build up?
A friend of mine got a few with 100 micrograms. I think i'll give them a try.

I first experimented with low doses, but i've been taking various amounts, up to 350 ug.
I never take psychedelics on consecutive days, so i can't say anything about that. But i think that 1P is not different from LSD-25 in this regard, so i wouldn't reccomend doing that.

The psychedelic experience lasts for about 6 to 8 hours. Or at least, after 6 to 8 hours the effects start to diminish very, very gradually. It's hard to say how long it takes before you're completely back to normal, but i would say it takes something like 4 to 6 hours for the effects to completely vanish. So that means you're experiencing psychedelic effects for about 12 hours, where the first 6 hours are realy intense, and then for the last few hours they're more or less just lingering on.

 

[_Arcane_]

My one experience with this kicked my backside on one 100ug tab, it felt identical to my memories of LSD from years ago, my only regret with this is that I didn't buy more of it before the UK made it illegal.

I highly recommend it for a genuine LSD experience.

 

[Chan]

me and my friends have found that just swollowing your tabs, as oposed to putting them under your tongue, made them considerable stronger, it felt like they were nearly twice as strong at lower doses. my only guess as to why was that it had something to do with your stomach acid helping to convert the 1P to LSD, but thats just a guess.

An observation:

We tried this ROA at the weekend, but the results were a bit disappointing. We're very familiar with the batch we have, and took 200 mics each. We'd usually tuck them into the cheek pouch, and expect to be coming up strong within 30 mins, with minimal body load.

We swallowed them on an empty stomach around midday, not having eaten since previous evening, but ate a bite of cracker/hummus with the tabs to stimulate digestion. Come-up was more like 90 mins, with increased body-load. Nothing unbearable, but noticeably stronger. Visuals didn't really kick in until 2-2.5 hours after, and were milder than I'd expect. Duration of the whole experience was extended somewhat, too. All in all, interesting, but not something either of us would aim to repeat.

Maybe it comes down to personal enzyme profiles?