1st time jungle...not so jungley

[Opiyum]

The following picture is the result of 100g powdered MHRB bark after a 4 day 5% acetic acid soak. The soups ph was then adjusted to 12.55(with NaOH) and three 100ml pulls with Ace Brand Toluene were added with the soup's temp held at 55 degrees C.
The Toly was evaporated yielding 2.4 grams of, as you can see in the pic, mostly white crystals with some yellow oily crystals. It was just scraped up having recently dried and still smells a bit of toly so in the end I imagine it will yield just under 2 grams when dry.

This is after failing to pull any jungle from a similar batch done with the same method but I first did 3 pulls with Naptha yielding 1.75 grams(after Re-xing/cleaning) of clean white N,N DMT. In that scenario the Toluene yielded the tiniest bit of orange goo. Not even worth recovering. I was very surprised when this failed considering the things I've read here and from many other reliable publications/people about this being the standard (or maybe what used to be the standard/original) way of acquiring jungle spice.

I have read so much conflicting information on Jungle, Tan waxy, the yellow oil, etc. so it's hard to know what to try next. Higher temperature when pulling? PH too high, too low? STB instead of the Acid soak?
Are my expectations off? I was expecting red/orange waxy crystaly material. Instead I got very white crystals with a bit of yellow oily stuff that crystallized on the outside edges. In effect these Toly pulls seemed to do exactly the same thing as the Naptha. Just with a bit more impurity because you can't freeze precipitate Toly like you can Naptha.

 

[fidget]

Looks pretty

 

[Opiyum]

I tried again but minus the 4 day acetic acid soak. Instead I just made a water and bark soup, raised ph to 12.5 with NaOH, then did three 100ml toluene pulls at 50C all with in an hours time.
The result, as you can see in the pic, is a much less pure product.

My aim is to get 'jungle' spice so in that respect I failed but in the process it seems I've unintentionally demonstrated that the 4 day acetic acid soak has a great effect on the purity of the end product.

 

[MelCat]

That looks like jungle to me.

If you're aiming to get the really orange and red stuff, you need to go the STB route. In my experience, an A/B always gives the cleanest product in the end.

Also, maybe consider using xylene instead of toulene? I don't have any experience with toulene so I can't say for sure. But I have most definitely pulled some pretty funky stuff with xylene.

Also, if you recrystallize this tan stuff you've pulled so far, in some heptane, you'll (most likely) end up with a set of beautiful crystals sitting on top of a nice orange cake. I don't know what makes it change from tan to orange in the heptane, but it's a beautiful chunk. I always hate to break 'em up.

 

[Opiyum]

That's what I was thinking of trying next. Xylene on an A/B and an STB.

"If you're aiming to get the really orange and red stuff, you need to go the STB route. In my experience, an A/B always gives the cleanest product in the end."

That's actually what I did with what's pictured in the third post. That's the result of a pretty standard STB.

The first post is the result of an A/B. Not a real A/B though. After the four day acetic acid soak I never decanted the aqueous solution from the plant material. Instead I just added lye water to the bark/acetic acid and immediately pulled with Toly.

I'll have to try that heptane re-x you're talking about. It makes sense that the tan material is only tan because it is mixed with the white n,n DMT. Maybe whatever is making it tan is actually orange but only appears so when it is separated from the white stuff.

 

[MelCat]

That sounds about right. Something to keep in mind to get the really funky stuff with xylene is you have to keep everything nice and warm, especially the xylene. I usually do 3 pulls right off the bat and let a 4th and much larger pull sit overnight. If I used 100ml pulls the first three times, I'd do at least 150-200ml to sit overnight. That overnight pull is almost always the funkiest.

 

[LandOfOz]

what you have there is almost 100% nn,dmt. thats the only thing in this thread we can be sure of.

stb, pull, xylol salting, you need to deplete ALL the white or crystal spice you can. also boiling base solution and naphtha work if you dont want to salt. if you do this heptane must be used to strip nn dmt out.

>90% of what people post as jungle is atleast 90% nndmt still. if you heat and pull dmt, it will go on almost forever. check to be sure your 'jungle' color isnt water sol. if it is its prolly base liquid.

color is a bad measure in chem. it may be nothing but a dye and placebo altering nndmt. it may be nndmt vaping differently due to oils. it may be oxidized. maybe stb causes some reisomerization. could be solvent trapped and incorporated into crystal structure.

according to the only real data we have its dmt and 2 chemicals closely related. but they all used the same testing method i think so it may not show all chemicals in the sample.

id say its a different chemical. but thats a hugely biased experience. i even am aware that i want it to be another chemical. only blind testing cane prove. ive produced red(no water sol contam) liquid orange, rock hard orange, clear orange shard, yellow contam, yellow and orange as two non mingling substances, and one substance with very little dmt. all the others still had lots of dmt. IME if it will solidify it is still mostly dmt, and if it wont solidify, its prolly a heavy hydrocarbon lol.

i smoked an ultra concentrated red, naphtha insol(after all/most dmt was removed), water insol contam, worst thing ever second to large dose of pma. tho, it may have been placebo, it may have been solvent contam, who knows.

 

[Opiyum]

what you have there is almost 100% nn,dmt. thats the only thing in this thread we can be sure of.

stb, pull, xylol salting, you need to deplete ALL the white or crystal spice you can. also boiling base solution and naphtha work if you dont want to salt. if you do this heptane must be used to strip nn dmt out.

>90% of what people post as jungle is atleast 90% nndmt still. if you heat and pull dmt, it will go on almost forever. check to be sure your 'jungle' color isnt water sol. if it is its prolly base liquid.

color is a bad measure in chem. it may be nothing but a dye and placebo altering nndmt. it may be nndmt vaping differently due to oils. it may be oxidized. maybe stb causes some reisomerization. could be solvent trapped and incorporated into crystal structure.

according to the only real data we have its dmt and 2 chemicals closely related. but they all used the same testing method i think so it may not show all chemicals in the sample.

id say its a different chemical. but thats a hugely biased experience. i even am aware that i want it to be another chemical. only blind testing cane prove. ive produced red(no water sol contam) liquid orange, rock hard orange, clear orange shard, yellow contam, yellow and orange as two non mingling substances, and one substance with very little dmt. all the others still had lots of dmt. IME if it will solidify it is still mostly dmt, and if it wont solidify, its prolly a heavy hydrocarbon lol.

i smoked an ultra concentrated red, naphtha insol(after all/most dmt was removed), water insol contam, worst thing ever second to large dose of pma. tho, it may have been placebo, it may have been solvent contam, who knows.

You're talking about yuremamine and kokkusiginine(sp?) right? I wish extracting 'jungle spice' was a more concrete process. At first everything I was reading seemed to point to a definative product that could be extracted that is roughly twice as potent as N,N DMT and was typically red and most notably insoluble in aliphatic hydrocarbons.
Now the more I read the more it seems 'jungle spice' is a material that can be liquid or solid, can vary from red to orange to yellow to tan and isn't necessarily retrieved with aromatic solvents. In fact some of the nicest, whitest DMT I've ever evaped came from Toluene.

It's interesting one person says the image in post #3 looks like jungle and another says it's probably near 99% pure N,N DMT. To me it looked like pure DMT with a bit of the plants oils and such leeched through. Maybe a bit of solvent. Definately not the jungle I had hoped for.


This makes me rethink my plans to run blind tests this summer. After all how does one run a test on a product that doesn't even have an agreed upon appearance/set of effects/method of extraction/physical characteristics etc.

 

[LandOfOz]

im failry sure that we have concluded neither of those chemicals are real or atleast are what we are getting. my guess is its several compounds. yellow orange red tho im fairly sure is diff levels of 1 chemical, BUT ive grown clear xtals out of red oil... if color was dependent on % it would have be orange not red.

okay so if you take the pic we were talking about, and using heptane removed most of the white spice, you would be left with a thick orange fluid which upon evap will yield a hard hard substance, full of microcrystals, but not an actual xtal. upon further reduction with copious amounts of hot solvent this substance will reduce in volume.

this may or may not be the similar chemical yielded from xylol ab.

 

[LandOfOz]

"
Now swim is really confused as to what exactly that orange/red stuff is he managed to pull from MHRB with DE Ether actually is . It is orally active on its own with no DMT like effects.The stuff swim was pulling refused to cystalized but stayed in an almost rock like waxy nature. Deep orange after drying , verging on red .. but when hot naptha is applied to it with heat .. it melts into a bright red oil. Swim does not propose is it any of these substances , specifically. Damnit... why cant some labs just break this down and find out what the hell is going on with this? Could it be that their are 2 substances which have the maoi effects in mhrb? What swim has will not dissolve any in room temp - warm water . Swim did not have enough to risk trying it in really hot water , simply because he dropped a large portion down the sink while doing the warm test . Could swim have more of a Kokusaginie substance than yuremamine?

The reason he questions this is thus : every thing that swim swims reads on red spice / jungle dmt says its extremely potent... mind blowing head effects. All swim gets from the substance he pulled is extreme body effects. A heavy sedated, weighted down feeling, with no to very little head effects. According to what Mr. Ott proposed the Kokusaginine is reputed to have body effects.
"

". What swim pulled with De/heptane will not dissolve in naptha. At first it gave the appearance of doing so under high temps, but later it was discovered that it was just a crapload of regular spice still in the orange goo. Note that these pulls were done on both soup that had not been exhausted with naptha , and some that had. On the soup that had completely stopped yeilding anything at all with naptha, it yeilded almost a gram of spice after being seperated from the goo... anyways thats a diffrent subject.. just stating that swim found spice with de/hep that would have been lost otherwise. Now back to the orange/red. The stuff swim currently has is like he stated earlier. Waxy rock , dark deep orange in color and wreeks of spice. The taste is way diffrent although.... its not nearly as sharp as the taste of spice, more dull .. bordering on a tropane alkaloid taste. Swim has washed this stuff in hot naptha several times ... atleast three , maybe 4 - by placing it in hot naptha and stirring strong while applied to a low heat source... removing the naptha ...which will stain orange everytime and leaving it to freeze precip. The orange stuff stays on the bottom of the jar and doesn't dissipate into the naptha. Even the naptha that is pulled is stained yellow , the spice that precips out is always snow white. One experiment was done where a small amount of the orange was heated in naptha the same way .. and only a couple of drops of de/hep was added... the orange did dissolve into solution at that point and was placed in the freezer for precip. Within 30 minutes the entire contents had precipped out. All of the orange goo had once again coated the bottom of the jar and a small amount of white spice crystals formed around the rim of the liquid and on top of the orange goo. This stuff gives 100 % body load."

 

[LandOfOz]

"if it were to have morphine like properties, atleast some opiate qualities, in effects, chemically structured or not, when buddy did an extract once, ether pulls were done afterwards, evaped and what remained, warm naptha was poured over, stired, and poured off, what was left that did not disolve was redisolved in ether and preciped, white crystals resulted, 30mg from a 400g extraction, 15mg was smoked and very strong opiate like effects were felt, hallucinogenic but very mild, shadows and depth so forth, outlines, it wasnt spice and it was very powerful in small amounts, almost drooling tounge hanging kinda deal, no moving, no blast off to another world, and it only lasted about 10min, which im sure could be confused to some as a low dose spice hit but buddy started with low doses in the beginning and gradually moved up to 60mg which was been the most so far, many occasion but no higher, but this wasnt spice I say again, very interesting material, have seen it in the red form, chunky material it is, similar to other material when freebased, the orangy goo or so forth I believe is mostly spice with impurities and possibly some jungle,"