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200g and 25g of mhrb yield the same?

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2cb-mine

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SWIM uses noman's tek. the first try he used 200g of mhrb with the proper ratio of water/lye. SWIM only yielded about 300 ish mgs of spice. SWIM tried this 2 different times with 200 grams of bark for a total of 400 grams of bark which now yields about 400mgs of gorgeous spice.

SWIM used the exact same method with 25g of mhrb and yielded about 200 ish mgs. What is the problem? Why isn't SWIM sitting on 2-4 grams right now?

SWIM did the extraction to the T. He has even tried evaporating some of the naptha down to about 1/5 of what it was before and still no yield over 75 mgs.

The bark for the extraction was purchased at BBB and I believe should be ok since he had almost a 1% yield on the smaller xtraction, but it could have been a little spice from the re-used naptha.

any help would be amazing!
 
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It was probably the spice from the re-used Naphtha first of all.

And SWIM has found to follow Noman's Tek to the T is not a good idea, he has revised the Tek and was asking for suggestions in the STB forum. I did the Tek to a T for my first 5g test batch of MHRB and it didn't work out well for me.


I mess around with the Tek a little bit time-wise and how I roll the jars around (at a diagonal on the carpet so the most surface area of Naptha is exposed to the MHRB stuck the glass jar.
 
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SWIM doesn't use sodium hydroxide techs anymore. Noman's tech relies on sodium hydroxide, so SWIM can't give much advice on how to use that tech. SWIM’s advice: don’t use techs that rely on sodium hydroxide because it’s a watched chemical in some areas, and it’s a very dangerous base. If you splash a little on your eyes it can cause permanent blindness.

Some bark is EXTREMELY WEAK. SWIM stopped buying mimosa after getting too much poor quality mimosa. He now uses Hawaiian chacruna and chaliponga. They always give SWIM a good yield. For SWIM, mimosa is too much of a hit or miss. SWIM has lost hundreds of dollars on completely worthless mimosa. This is a common complaint and buyers will search high and low to find a “good seller”. The truth is that most sellers have no idea if they are selling good quality mimosa or not, or if it’s even mimosa hostilis or one its inactive relatives. I’ve seen too many people get burned buying mimosa that yields weird alkaloids, no alkaloids, or just traces. The Hawaiian chacruna and chaliponga SWIM gets is very consistent in quality.

If your mimosa is not good, there’s nothing you can do to increase the yield.

If your mimosa is good, but you’re getting poor yields, make sure the pH is at 9.5 or higher when freebasing, otherwise yields will be really poor. If that’s not a problem, and you’re attempting to freeze precipitate, then chances are you’ve used too much solvent and you need to let it evaporate down.

Freeze precipitation is where lots of people make mistakes. They often have too much solvent. You should evaporate the solvent down until it looks cloudy, and then freeze precipitate it overnight for best yields.
 
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What is it that would get used if NaOH is not used as a base....Sodium carbonate perhaps? because SWIM does notice that Na2CO3 can easily raise the pH to at least around 10 if his tests are accurate. SWIM would be interested if good clean results can be obtained without the use of NaOH as a strong base. Thanks
 
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Mill said:
What is it that would get used if NaOH is not used as a base....Sodium carbonate perhaps? because SWIM does notice that Na2CO3 can easily raise the pH to at least around 10 if his tests are accurate. SWIM would be interested if good clean results can be obtained without the use of NaOH as a strong base. Thanks
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Sodium hydroxide is just not needed.

DMT has a pKa of 8.68. That's very low. That means that at pH 8.68 50% is freebased. At pH 9.68 90% is freebased. At pH 10.68 99% is freebased. At pH 11.68 99.9% is freebased. At pH 12.68 99.99% is freebased.

Sodium carbonate can take the pH up to 11.5. So it can freebase close to 99.9% of all the DMT for each pull.

Ammonia can take the pH to 11.6. So it can also freebase close to 99.9% of all the DMT for each pull.

Calcium hydroxide can take the pH to 12.4. So it can freebase close to 99.99% of all the DMT for each pull.

Even at pH 9, you can get more than 99% of the DMT by doing several pulls.

Bufotenine has a pKa of 9.67 which is higher than DMT. Jonathan Ott proved that you can extract nearly all the bufotenine from Yopo using a low pH of 8.5. You just need to do a lot of pulls, that’s all. It’s more efficient to have a higher pH though. In SWIM’s tests pH 9.5 was as good as pH 10.5 and better than pH 11.5 and higher (because bufotenine starts coming apart at about pH 11), when three pulls were done with DCM.

If you extract DMT from chacruna, and then freebase at pH 8.6 with a tiny bit of sodium carbonate, and do five pulls with DCM, you’ll get close to 96% of all the DMT. SWIM knows because he tested it.
 
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69ron said:
Jonathan Ott proved that you can extract nearly all the bufotenine from Yopo using a low pH of 8.5. You just need to do a lot of pulls, that’s all.
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I don't understand this. How does the bufotenine know that for instance 50% is in solution. After all, the other 50% is on the bottom of the vessel. Is it telepathic and can communicate with the rest of the bufotenine? How does concentration of bufotenine matter in this case? And how does other alkaloids affect what comes out at a certain pH?

Does something else than the concentration of bufotenine change when bufotenine precipitates? Could this something else be the cause?
 
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^^Dagger when the pH is around the pka that means that roughly half the bufotenin is ionized and the other half is not. That is the definiation of pka. The deionized freebased bufotenin will not want to be in water. The more you pull out the freebased bufotenine out of the water with non polar solvent the more basic molecules get freed in the water solution to go on and deionize more of the bufotenine that is still in solution.

ron is right that the pH does not need to be so high to pull dmt. You only need to be a bit above the pka for most purposes. But that depends on the matrix that the compound is in. It depends on what other compounds and plant materials could be present in the solution. For example with teks like nomans you extract with basic water only. So the high amounts of base are needed to destroy the bark and the cells that contain the dmt. So the purposes is not so much to just precipitate the dmt but more to destroy the bark.
 
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burnt said:
For example with teks like nomans you extract with basic water only. So the high amounts of base are needed to destroy the bark and the cells that contain the dmt. So the purposes is not so much to just precipitate the dmt but more to destroy the bark.
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Different techs require different bases. That tech is designed for sodium hydroxide. The sodium hydroxide is basically dissolving parts of the bark to get at the DMT trapped inside the pieces of bark to freebase it. If the bark is very finely powderized that’s not really needed.

SWIM did a similar extraction using calcium hydroxide instead of sodium hydroxide and finely powdered bark instead of bark pieces and some water and got pretty much the same yields when pulling with heptane (but the soak time required is much longer though).

You can do an STB with sodium carbonate using finely powdered mimosa and some water and you’ll get about the same yields and it only takes a few minutes. You can also do it with ammonia. You just need to make sure the bark is finely powdered that’s all.
 
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So should SWIM maybe only do .8 grams of NAOH per gram of bark to better his yields? Its just very frusterating going through a whole lb of bark and only coming out with 7 good doses. What does SWIY think needs to be done in this situation to better the outcome?

SWIM has been steadily pulling 25-30mgs a pull continously. On pull 5 or 6 now, and its still coming out steady as ever. Should SWIM lessen the amount of naptha for each pull to not have to evaporate? Think SWIM should do hot water baths? SWIM JUST WANTS A GOOD PULL FOR ONCE!!! These are SWIMS 1st attempts and he only has 1 more LB before there will be no more tries. thanks...

thanks!
 
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