burnt said:
I fully admit I also contribute to degrading conversation when I resort to insulting people out of frustration.
So I maintain that accusation that I think many people here turn dmt and psychedelics into a kind of religion despite the many claims that they aren't.
As opposed to your scientism which has become a religion for you in its own right? This is something that has been pointed out to you numerous times, which you have failed to grasp or understand. You are guilty of that which you accuse others of, you just refuse to accept it.
What you say about my articles isn't even true. Yes I used lectures and article that were old but from Richard Feynman who was completely accurate in his lectures. I also posted about books and articles that are new. People have tracked this movement of quantum mysticism and debunked it thoroughly.
It is true. I have read some of them and come to my own conclusions about the information they contained, and found it lacking in evidence or enough credibility to change my point of view. You arguments and "evidence" has been unconvincing. It has not been debunked thoroughly. If it had been it wouldn't be growing in popularity. It has been debunked to the satisfaction of materialists, but not so much for anyone else.
I posted many times about a book called "Quantum Gods: Creation Chaos and the Search for Cosmic Consciousness" by Victor Stenger. He destroys this myth. But no one wanted to read it or any of his articles because hes not just a real physicist but an atheist so people assumed he was biased and wouldn't be honest. Although he was honest and every other real physicist I've talked to has told me the same thing. What you hear on the internet from fringe scientists about quantum mechanics is largely a bunch of total BS twisted around to make you think all these weird beliefs.
Straw Man
Nothing to do with banning it has to do with the level of discussion going from serious discussions about the brain and psychedelic drugs to arguing with people who had no idea what they were talking about saying "rocks are conscious". How can we have serious discussions when people are completely ignorant about such basic facts about the world most likely as a result of their own psychedelic drug use?
You need to add context to this. The idea that rocks are conscious, came about from a discussion that everything is conscious, from the smallest quark to the largest galaxy. If you cannot conceptualize how the universe could be a consciousness in its totality, or a hologram, then that is a lack of imaginiation on your part. It is not ignorance of others, and has nothing to do with psychedelics. There is evidence to suggest the universe we inhabit is constructed in this way, but your religious beliefs will not let you even consider the possibility. Therefore you are unable to have a discussion because your perceptions of what is possible has become your belief in what is possible, and you cannot see outside the box you have put yourself in. The discussion has moved beyond you, and you cannot catch up because you have tied your legs together.
So yes I do feel the discussion level degraded significantly although I fully admit I added a harsh element to it when I got pissed off about it.
Why do you get pissed off about it, so much so that you have to take a break and "cool off"? I contend you lack understanding, and become afraid of that which you do not know. Fear of the unknown leads to anger...
Yes its total nonsense and many of those physicists have been discredited by the mainstream physics community. It doesn't matter how you interpret quantum mechanics the data is there and nothing points to consciousness having any role in controlling reality. That's a total myth.
"They" have discredited "them". Straw Man.
You can't coneptualize how consciousness controls reality? To claim that something so fundamental to your existence is a total myth is amazing in its shortsightedness. It is plainly obvious you do not know what you do not know, yet you refuse to accept it. I have yet to see a good "discrediting" of this concept by "them", so to claim that everyone who is anyone(them) agrees is utter nonsense. You don't know shit from shinola, the sooner you accept that the better off you'll be.
Actually there is a lot of agreement. These discredited physicists and new ager's try to convince people that there isn't when in fact there is and has been for a long time.
Ahh, there is a lot of agreement, but not a consensus. Therefore there are no "facts".
The internet is part of this viral marketing scheme I am talking about. You just proved my point again that it has influenced your thinking. Materialist's haven't attempted to squash them they have squashed them but people who don't know the facts ignore it or pretend like they haven't. Quantum mechanics is more reductionist then ever just look at the standard model of particle physics. Even string theory is just as material and reductionist as ever.
I agree, information has influenced my thinking. How dare information influence my thinking, I need to resort back to ignorance to provide my world view! Materialist's haven't squashed anything, except their own ability to think outside their extremely narrow, dogmatic world view. You like to claim facts where none exist...theories are not facts. You should know that.
These concepts are gaining popularity because we have a deeply uninformed scientifically illiterate public. This is partially the fault of scientists for ignoring garbage being spread on the internet and not doing enough to communicate with the public but hopefully that will change in the future.
Yes, please let loose your priesthood of science so they can tend to the poor misguided and lost flock. Please tell us what to believe so that we can leave this state of ignroance and become part of the true faith!
HAH! Totally untrue. Yes some people have embraced these kind of ideas but that's a very small minority who wants to make money selling books and many of whom are discredited and ignored by the scientific community. The only esteemed scientist who supports any of this stuff is Roger Penrose but his whole mitocondrial brain as quantum computer idea is probably wrong for reasons I am not going to discuss right now. But know that its not taken seriously by the vast majority of scientists who have looked at his idea.
Straw Man.
Who are the esteemers? Its the status quo, and not always, but more often than not they are intersted in their own institutional beliefs and not anything that challenges the "mainstream." No one likes to see their life's work destoryed or made obsolete by new understanding or paradigms. It is human nature, so we can understand, if not condone their hesitance. Science in the greatest holder back of science, not the ignorance of the "lay" population.
Its not my truth. Its the truth derived from facts. You have no facts just your own personal experiences which we know for a fact can be misinterpreted and wrong.
Again, where are these "facts" you speak of? You like to claim fact without any supporting evidence. Am I to take your word for it? No that would be silly. I agree personal experiences can be misinterpreted, but that does not mean that they always are. I never use my experiences to support "fact", I never have and never will because that is just foolish. You believe in anothers interpretation of the truth, even when you have no personal experience to back those beliefs up. Who is the more deluded here, eh?
Dude I work in the field of drug development. I know for a fact that the vast majority of these alternative medicine practices are total bullshit. I also know the power of the placebo effect which is something you don't seem the have a clue about. Most people don't. These things have been debunked or shown clinically to be placebo many times.
All hail the drug developer, bow down before his superior knowledge of the true nature of reality! Please, and this is supposed to convince me you know about something of which you have no personal experience?
I know and understand the placebo effect quite well, I have participated in drug trials when I was in college (what a fool I was, but hey, anything to get some extra cash at that time in life). How do you know for a FACT that they are total bullshit? You are speaking from a state of experiential ignorance, you do not have all the information available to you, just a particular interpretation that fits your world view. You believe what a select group of others have told you is true. How can you have facts when you lack the most vaulable of information...personal experience.
Does not the placebo effect have real and measureable benefits to the individual? How can you know for a FACT that it is placebo and not something else going on? If it helps the individual in a real meaningful way then it is true, and not bullshit.
Second I've had many deeply moving psychedelic experiences. I've had experiences where dead relatives spoke to me. Tell me thats not "deep enough" for you? However I still remain objective enough to recognize that perhaps it was just my brain's way of coping with their deaths when I was on drugs. This is something you and others here don't do. You come out of psychedelic experiences and think that your interpretation is automatically valid because it seemed real to you. Thats not acceptable for finding out real answers. If that was the case we'd have to investigate every psychotic delusion by every schizophrenic because they are all "just as true" which is of course not possible. Even psychotics who have managed to realize they are sick are more objective then you are about their experiences.
Straw Man.
Ascribing thought processes and motivations to an individual or group of people when you cannot possibly have any knowledge of this is just deluding yourself to support your on belief system. I acknowledge that these experiences could be a coping mechanism, if I saw dead relatives that would be my first and natural conclusion. But my experiences and interpretations of truth do not only come from a psychedelic state. They come from meditation, contemplation, reading, writing, discussion with others, synchronicities, basically through every single solitary expeirence I have accumulated thoughout my 40 years of life. To base your truth solely on a psychedelic experience(s) is limiting oneself to a narrow band of perception.
Psychedlics can open a door, so can near death experiences, deep meditation, epiphnies, anything that helps to break consensus reality. Once open you can choose to walk through or not, and who knows what you'll find on the other side. Psychedelics allowed me to widen my perception of what is possible, and that is where I have found my answers.
But I keep searching...
