2012 debunked extensively

[Saidin]

The Big Bang is not nonsense. Its not complete and no one pretends it is.

The Big Bang is 95% incomplete. Terrible science.

Science is only as slow as the evidence it takes to build theories is discovered. Modern science evolved further in a few hundred years then anything else in the previous 200,000 years of humanity.

I agree, in fact I would go further, science has progressed more in the last 15 years than the previous 200,000.

Islam? Fundamentalist Christianity? The only people who claim to be religious and change from its teachings are people who reject half the teachings of their religions origins. But that's people changing not the religion itself. The Bible is the Bible it can't change unless you add or subtract a few scrolls. The Quran is the Quran it can't change its the absolute word of a made up god. People can ignore parts of it that's all. When religions change fundamental teachings it just shows how man-made it all is or how fickle and stupid god is.

We can always pick the extremes and make an example of them. Christianity hasn't changed? How many different sects of Protestantism are there? Hundreds...they change over time, they are not stagnant. This is only one branch of Christianity, then you have all the various branches of all other religions. The Bible is the Bible and the Quran the Quran, but the interpreations can differ significantly. Southern Whites used the Bible to justify slavery, it all comes down to interpretation and what works for the individual/society in general at that time. It is not change from its teachings.

Religion has no fundamental claims over morality either. The origin of human morals is ancient and never came from god. It came from humans. It came from our evolutionary need to work together to survive.

Science has no claim whatsoever over morality. Morals came from emotions and feelings and the need for cooperation over competitioin, and were worked into human belief systems (religions) to provide a framework for living together. Purely subjective. I never claimed they came from god. I just claimed that this modality is outside the purvue of science.

There is no evidence for a spiritual world. If there ever was evidence for other realms of existence they would be made of some material too it just might be different from the matter/energy we are used to dealing with. How can something be immaterial? It doesn't even make sense really when I think about it. Even if there were spirits or ghosts or any of this stuff it would still be made of something.

There is plenty of evidence, but it is subjective. I agree, if there are other realms they are made of a different state of matter/energy which we are currently unable to detect. The matter we percieve as the world is nothing but energy that is vibrating at a rate which we are able to percieve. Spirits and ghosts, if they exist, would be made of something. That something is energy in a different state than what we are able to dectect with out current technology. Energy/matter cannot be created or destroyed, it only changes form.

 

[burnt]

The Big Bang is 95% incomplete. Terrible science.

I'd say why but lets not bother its a whole different discussion.

Science has no claim whatsoever over morality. Morals came from emotions and feelings and the need for cooperation over competitioin, and were worked into human belief systems (religions) to provide a framework for living together. Purely subjective. I never claimed they came from god. I just claimed that this modality is outside the purvue of science.

A guy named Sam Harris is argeuing that this notion is a fallacy and that science can make claims about morality. But I am not going to rehash his arguments you can look him up.

There is plenty of evidence, but it is subjective. I agree, if there are other realms they are made of a different state of matter/energy which we are currently unable to detect. The matter we percieve as the world is nothing but energy that is vibrating at a rate which we are able to percieve. Spirits and ghosts, if they exist, would be made of something. That something is energy in a different state than what we are able to dectect with out current technology. Energy/matter cannot be created or destroyed, it only changes form.

But wouldn't you also be willing to admit that those subjective experiences could be delusions?

Have you ever met someone with serious psychosis? They really do have completely false ideas about reality and its obvious. It can even become obvious to them when they are medicated or when they snap out of it?

Could it also be possible that when someone sees a ghost they are just hallucinating?

Since its possible that both could be right you have to look at the evidence. The best way to do this is with objective analysis. When you objectively study paranormal claims they are nearly all debunked. Also some paranormal claims contradict fundamental aspects of reality and can easily be dismissed on that grounds alone. Although I think its useful to go the extra step and take a look at evidence.

 

[Saidin]

^^Yes that's true I mean in some sense everything in the universe is connected but not instaneously all at the same time. It all might have the same origins etc etc. But I didn't mean that. I meant that you are still an individual in a body. You are not a rock you sit on. Its made of different stuff it doesn't hold your awareness and conscious self. This boundry becomes confused in certain brain states. Its well documented.

But is your awareness then deluded, or is it part of the rock? Is there any way to prove this scientifically, that the experience of a state is not acutally that which is experienced?

I condede that it could just be boundry "confusion" but is this provable?

A guy named Sam Harris is argeuing that this notion is a fallacy and that science can make claims about morality. But I am not going to rehash his arguments you can look him up.

Will do, thanks for the breadcrumb.

 

[burnt]

^^I think so but its time to go to bed and confuse those boundries in my dreams

 

[Saidin]

But wouldn't you also be willing to admit that those subjective experiences could be delusions?

Have you ever met someone with serious psychosis? They really do have completely false ideas about reality and its obvious. It can even become obvious to them when they are medicated or when they snap out of it?

Could it also be possible that when someone sees a ghost they are just hallucinating?

Since its possible that both could be right you have to look at the evidence. The best way to do this is with objective analysis. When you objectively study paranormal claims they are nearly all debunked. Also some paranormal claims contradict fundamental aspects of reality and can easily be dismissed on that grounds alone. Although I think its useful to go the extra step and take a look at evidence.

I wholly admit that these experiences could be delusions and or hallucinations. Could you see it as possible that these things are actually a real, but as of yet misunderstood function of the univese we live in? It could be that these experiences are only meant to be experienced subjectively, or that the instrumentation has not become sophisticaed enough to detect them? Much the same with dark matter and dark energy, we think they are out there, but we do not have the instrumentation to detect them at this point.

Have you ever watched Ghost Hunters? There is some weird stuff they pick up in audio and video on that show that is not easily explainable.

In my opinion, they could both be right, and as of now there is just no way to know for sure.

I have had some experience with Alzheimers, and it is true that they are not able to relate to our consensus reality very well. But would it also be possible that their consciousness has shifted to a parallel universe, a phase shift of some kind (if you subscribe to multi-verse theory) and that what they are experiencing is real in a sense?

I am just making the point that there may be explanations for this stuff. There have been plenty of "credible" witnesses who have related these experiences, which doesn't negaate the delusion/hallucination explanation, but can call it into question.

 

[Ayawasqero]

God can´t be debunked.