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4-Hydroxy-5-methoxydimethyltryptamine

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Fatcat

Fatcat

Rising Star
Any one growing mushies and have some 5-meo to spare? maybe some lab rats to do some LD50 testing, and a chimpanzee or two to see the changes in behavior.

What other testing would need to be done to see if what ever comes out of those mushrooms is safe? I would love to be the first person to do a drug, after it was proven safe of course.
 
I talked to Jochen Gartz at this Party and asked him about that -I think he told me this specific compound was neurotoxic , and that others compounds of this group could also be dangerous ( Bufotenine Doping )
Also he said he thinks the Tryptamine Doping not to be of psychonautic ,but purely academical value and one should simply take more shrooms.
 
Several of these di-methoxy tryptamines have been made. Also several of these compounds with a methylene bridge were also made and are reported in TIHKAL. None of these compounds stand out with special pharmacological properties. However I see no obvious reason why these compounds with have an enhanced level of toxicity. There is no support or logic in such statement(s). Maybe if the substitutions were on the 6,7 position but not the 4,5 or even 5,6.

Why wouldn't making mushrooms more potent have value? That is ridiculous. Just eat more? If there is a way to enhance the potency of mushroom many people would be interested in this ability. It absolutely has value. However if he meant in the practical sense that the technique is not efficient enough to find wide spread value I would agree. However there is potential.
 
Also I am not sure anyone has used a indole ring substituted tryptamine as a substrate. Is the hydroxylase enzyme able to use indole substituted tryptamines, such as bufotenine, and 5-MeO-DMT, as a substrate?
I am not sure this has been shown. One can use N-substituted tryptamines but what about indole substituted? Does anyone know of any studies?
 
bufoman said:
Also I am not sure anyone has used a indole ring substituted tryptamine as a substrate. Is the hydroxylase enzyme able to use indole substituted tryptamines, such as bufotenine, and 5-MeO-DMT, as a substrate?
I am not sure this has been shown. One can use N-substituted tryptamines but what about indole substituted? Does anyone know of any studies?
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I'm equally skeptical and I do not personally think that the indole 4-hydroxylase from the mushrooms would be able to cope with indole ring substituted tryptamines. This cannot be excluded of course and it has not been demonstrated.

Enzymes are as picky about their substrates as they can be very open about them. Crazy little machines they are.
 
I didn't understand too much about the chemistry and can't recall it good as it was at psytrance gathering ;)
He told me about one specific compound which has shown to be neurotoxic... too bad i cant remember ...

I think Gartz has shown that Tryptamine Doping Works - but while the psilocin level drastically rises- the yields drastically drop i think ... Growing Ps. Cubensis the traditional ways (not PF Tek) brings huge yields and with a simple water extract one can take up much as one wants . And one doesnt have to buy/ make tryptamine which is pretty hard to get...

So i think his point was that he thinks his method is pretty impractical for most people.

Another thing one could do is make 2x/ 3x/ 4x Extracts of Cubensis instead of trying for Crystals - and for this i would use cheap vodka


Well a natural Source of tryptamine would be nice - I guess it could be an ideal Substrate / Partner Crop for most psylocybes
 
I'm pretty shure that this particular compound occurs in some sea-plant and that it is the substance responsible for the hallucinogenic- fish myth, referred to at this forum.
As for making shrooms more potent. I believe the easiest way would be to let it sit in a jar with vinegar or acetic acid for a day. this method, according to 69ron works for converting bufotenin into 5-HO-DMT, so i don't see why it wouldn't work for 4-HO'*'.I haven't tried it yet, because i have ko idea how long it (4-AcO-DMT) could be stored.
 
Would be pretty Interesting if this would work !
I think wa can't exactly say it would we would have shrooms after the Conversion of their Psilocin Content - as 4 Aco DMT doesnt occur in shrooms naturally .

Can we convert Psilocybin to Psilocin ?
4 Aco DMT fumarate is much more stable than Psilocin - its a compound very well worth looking into - if it was easy to convert and extract ...
 
polytrip said:
I'm pretty shure that this particular compound occurs in some sea-plant and that it is the substance responsible for the hallucinogenic- fish myth, referred to at this forum.
As for making shrooms more potent. I believe the easiest way would be to let it sit in a jar with vinegar or acetic acid for a day. this method, according to 69ron works for converting bufotenin into 5-HO-DMT, so i don't see why it wouldn't work for 4-HO'*'.I haven't tried it yet, because i have ko idea how long it (4-AcO-DMT) could be stored.
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Acetylation of bufotenine has hot been demonstrated to happen this way; 69ron felt that something changed but there was no indication that SWIH did actually accomplished 5-AcO-dmt. As a matter of fact the conversion is far more complicated and not to be discussed here.

In this respect, there's no reason to assume that something would happen with psilocin. SWIM has done psilocin extractions with daylong incubations of mushrooms in the vinegar and he didn't notice any conversions.

As far as the ichthyotoxin is concerned, why do you thing that it is 4-OH 5-meo dmt?
 
polytrip said:
I'm pretty shure that this particular compound occurs in some sea-plant and that it is the substance responsible for the hallucinogenic- fish myth, referred to at this forum.
As for making shrooms more potent. I believe the easiest way would be to let it sit in a jar with vinegar or acetic acid for a day. this method, according to 69ron works for converting bufotenin into 5-HO-DMT, so i don't see why it wouldn't work for 4-HO'*'.I haven't tried it yet, because i have ko idea how long it (4-AcO-DMT) could be stored.
Click to expand...

SWIM never said that worked. He said he noticed something changed in the effect but it was very minor and could have been placebo or a change in impurities that occurred. He needs to do that test again with pure bufotenine to be sure it wasn’t just his imagination. It’s true that acetylation of some compounds is possible with just vinegar. But it often takes several days to even weeks to complete the reaction. Such is the case with morphine, but the acetylation of morphine is not complete with acetic acid and it takes a long time. For complete acetylation of morphine you need acetic anhydride. I’m convinced that you can make 5-AcO-DMT with acetic anhydride and bufotenine if done right.

SWIM will test again using glacial acetic acid. Unlike the others here, he’s not convinced it’s not possible with acetic acid until he exhausts all possible ways of acetylating bufotenine with acetic acid.
 
bufoman said:
Several of these di-methoxy tryptamines have been made. Also several of these compounds with a methylene bridge were also made and are reported in TIHKAL. None of these compounds stand out with special pharmacological properties. However I see no obvious reason why these compounds with have an enhanced level of toxicity. There is no support or logic in such statement(s). Maybe if the substitutions were on the 6,7 position but not the 4,5 or even 5,6.

Why wouldn't making mushrooms more potent have value? That is ridiculous. Just eat more? If there is a way to enhance the potency of mushroom many people would be interested in this ability. It absolutely has value. However if he meant in the practical sense that the technique is not efficient enough to find wide spread value I would agree. However there is potential.
Click to expand...

The dihydroxy tryptamines can be neurotoxic. See Mixing mushroom enzymes with tryptamines - Preparation - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus for more details. I don't know about methoxy together with hydroxy . I would proceed with caution as mentioned previously in this thread.

At this time and until we know more I strongly recommend not adding 5-OH substituted tryptamines (like bufotenine or 5-HTP) to mushroom substrates.
 
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