5-MeO-DMT windowpane (gel tabs)?

[69ron]

A friend’s friend tried out the following:

A while ago I pondered the idea of the possibility of someone making blotter paper containing 5-MeO-DMT specifically for sublingual use. This turns out to be quite easy to do. All of the needed materials to make 5-MeO-DMT blotter are easily available: perforating blades, blotter paper and acetone. Very thick blotter can be found that can hold 5-10 mg especially if the dose is cut a little larger than normal. 5-10 mg is enough for a mild 5-MeO-DMT trip, if taken sublingually.

There are downsides to making 5-MeO-DMT blotter.

First off, the 5-MeO-DMT would have to be freebase because a salt form would be too large to fit well on blotter paper. Freebase 5-MeO-DMT really burns your mouth. For that reason, it’s better to use a salt form of 5-MeO-DMT.

Another downside is that there’d be little space to add any harmine to the blotter. A sublingual 5-MeO-DMT trip combined with sublingual harmine is a fantastic combination. It’s stronger, last longer, and is just all around a better, more interesting experience.

Finally, the most dangerous downside to making 5-MeO-DMT blotter is that people might think it was LSD which is highly illegal in many countries, and that’s not a good thing. Where I live, harmine and 5-MeO-DMT are both legal, so it would be better if the form it’s in doesn’t look like an illegal drug.


Ok, so then I started wondering about the possibility of someone making 5-MeO-DMT windowpane. Windowpane takes longer to absorb sublingually, and can hold much more than blotter can, and has longer shelf life, and it’s actually good for you unlike blotter paper.

Windowpane is very uncommon and most people not knowing what windowpane is wouldn’t assume it’s LSD if they saw it. They would probably think it was a breath mint gel tab or something.

Because the windowpane can hold much more than blotter, I could also add harmine to it. A windowpane tab that contained 5 mg of 5-MeO-DMT and 5 mg of harmine would be perfect. For a very light effect, 1 hit could be taken. For a very heavy trip effect 4 could be taken.


Ok, so sublingual 5-MeO-DMT windowpane seems like the perfect idea. Heck, I could even make it look like a tiny gummy bear with the right gel molds, then people would just think it was candy! But how do you go about making windowpane?

I did some searching on the net and found out that windowpane is actually quite easy to make. Windowpane is made of gelatin, water, and glycerin at a ratio of 1:2:1 by weight. For example, for a small amount, this would be 2 grams of gelatin, 4 ml of water, and 1.62 ml of glycerin.

I wanted to do a test run to see if it worked before doing the real deal.

1) I measured out 2 grams of gelatin and put it in a small flexible silicone cupcake baking cup.

2) I mixed 4 ml of water with and 1.6 ml of glycerin and poured that into the baking cup.

3) I let it sit for 1 minute and then put it in an oven for 1 hour at 200 F to melt the gelatin.

4) I took out the baking cup and mixed the small amount of solution with a toothpick. This caused lots of air bubbles to form.

5) I then put the solution in the freezer for 1 hour. After that the gel hardened.


So, this was a success. I had empty windowpane, but air bubbles were still present in the windowpane. I tried a small piece. I placed it under my tongue and in a few minutes it dissolved completely. It tastes a little sweet because of the glycerin. Quite nice actually. I could add some liquid stevia to make it even sweeter if I liked. So this was PERFECT for using 5-MeO-DMT sublingually.

That gel tab recipe is for industrial use and it seems to be too thick for home use. It’s hard to work with even while hot. It’s very hard to poor. I think maybe the solution is a little too thick and that maybe more water needs to be added to make it easier to work with in small batches with regular kitchen supplies.

So, next time I’ll maybe double the water add 5-MeO-DMT fumarate to the water and see how it comes out. If I use 8 ml of water mixed with 1.6 ml of glycerin, how much 5-MeO-DMT fumarate will absorb into it? Ideally I would want to be able to mix in 600 mg of 5-MeO-DMT fumarate for 100 doses. So that means 5-MeO-DMT fumarate solubility in water would need to be about 8 g/100 ml or more. Is that possible?

His little test seems to be a success.

There are basically two questions that remain unanswered.

1) How do you make windowpane that is nice and even without air bubbles?

2) What’s the solubility of 5-MeO-DMT fumarate in water? Can he fit 600 mg of 5-MeO-DMT fumarate in 8 ml of water?

 

[1shot2]

has anyone ever combined Jello with 5 meo?

 

[Viracocha]

You're cooking the gelatin at 100 degrees C.. is this basically to remove the water?

If so, then you could simply add more water in the beginning in order to make the mixture thinner which would allow it to be spread more thinly, plus it would help with removal of air bubbles

I'm pretty sure 5-MeO-DMT Fumarate will survive that temperature

I notice that DMT Fumarate has very high solubility in water, like most other salts. I know 100mg of mdma hcl has no problem dissolving in 0.4mL of water. I'm sure you'll be able to fit 600mg in 8mL


If you've got the 5-MeO-DMT Fumarate then go for it ron!
I'd be real interested to hear the results

Also, if you don't mind sharing, which plant is the 5-MeO-DMT coming from? If the source is man made then i don't want to know For a long time i've been looking for a viable plant source of this

 

[fourthripley]

1) How do you make windowpane that is nice and even without air bubbles?

In dental labs, when pouring plaster into moulds, its done on a vibrating platform to kill air bubbles.

 

[69ron]

It looks like SWIM’s test was a complete success! 5-MeO-DMT windowpane gel tabs work VERY WELL.

SWIM:

Oh my god...the wave of euphoria rushing through my body and mind is incredible!!!! WOW!!!! This stuff is fantastic!!!!! I cannot believe it’s 5-MeO-DMT!

The onset is much slower this way. It took 10 minutes to come on.

It’s been 20 minutes since I took the first gel tab and the effects are still getting stronger. This is the most euphoria I’ve had ever!!!!! Holy crap. Why didn’t someone try this before!

These gel tabs work great. Someone 5-MeO-DMT fumarate taken sublingually is super euphoric. I can’t believe it.

The dose I took was only 2.5 mg (calculated as freebase, it’s actually more because its 5-MeO-DMT fumarate).

It’s now 25 minutes passed and it has peaked. WOW. Very nice. I just feel like smiling really big. I’ve got acid style butterflies in my stomach. The body feeling is like acid. Somehow the fumarate salt form of 5-MeO-DMT is more LSD-like.

What a fantastic experience. Pure bliss. Next time I’ll try two tabs. Maybe later tonight

 

[69ron]

You're cooking the gelatin at 100 degrees C.. is this basically to remove the water?

200 F is not 100 C. It’s 93 C, which isn’t hot enough to boil the water. That temperature is used just to melt the gelatin faster and hopefully help get the air bubbles out, that’s all. It will also work at 100 F, but take longer to melt the gelatin.

If so, then you could simply add more water in the beginning in order to make the mixture thinner which would allow it to be spread more thinly, plus it would help with removal of air bubbles

The air bubbles are indeed a pain. Adding more water should work to remove the air bubbles, but then it will take much longer to dry completely.

I'm pretty sure 5-MeO-DMT Fumarate will survive that temperature
I notice that DMT Fumarate has very high solubility in water, like most other salts. I know 100mg of mdma hcl has no problem dissolving in 0.4mL of water. I'm sure you'll be able to fit 600mg in 8mL

SWIM tried a lower dose than he planned. He only used 25 mg.

This was his recipe:

2 grams gelatin
1.5 ml glycerin
25 mg 5-MeO-DMT fumarate (about 20 mg as freebase 5-MeO-DMT)
80 ml water

Spread the gelatin in a small 12x5 cm flexible silicone bread pan. Mix the other ingredients together and than add them to the pan. Let the gelatin absorb the liquid for 5 minutes. Place it in oven at 200 F for 30 minutes to thoroughly melt the gelatin. Take it out and mix it thoroughly. Let it dry at room temperature for 2 days. Invert the silicone pan and the gelatin pops right out! Cut into 8 large 3x2.5 cm gel tabs (it’s still not completely dry!). Each one contains 3.125 mg of 5-MeO-DMT fumarate (about 2.5 mg as freebase). That’s enough for a very mild trip. One can fit under the tongue and it takes less than 1 minute to dissolve.

This was just a test so I used a small amount of 5-MeO-DMT. I didn’t want to use a lot of 5-MeO-DMT just incase it got destroyed in the process.

Now that I know that this works I can try a much larger concentration of 5-MeO-DMT fumarate next time! I’m planning to use the same size pan, half as much water so it doesn’t take as long to dry out, and 750 mg 5-MeO-DMT fumarate. When done I’ll cut in into doses that are 0.5x0.5 cm gel tabs each containing 3.125 mg of 5-MeO-DMT fumarate which is just enough for minimal effects. With 5-MeO-DMT, when you double the dose its about 3 times as potent so 2 hits should be enough for visual effects, and 3 should be enough for a really good trip for ME. Other people require more or less to achieve the same results as me.

To use it, you place the gel tab under the tongue. You try your best not to swallow for about 10 minutes (which is hard to do). Then the effect starts. If you swallow it right away it won’t work. It needs to be absorbed under the tongue.

If you've got the 5-MeO-DMT Fumarate then go for it ron!
I'd be real interested to hear the results

SWIM did it and it works GREAT! It was the most euphoric 5-MeO-DMT trip he ever had! A totally blissful experience!

Also, if you don't mind sharing, which plant is the 5-MeO-DMT coming from? If the source is man made then i don't want to know For a long time i've been looking for a viable plant source of this

It was from Dipolpertys cabrerana. SWIM’s vendor has stuff very high in 5-MeO-DMT. SWIM extracted it using a typical A/B extraction using DCM as the solvent, citric acid as the acid, and sodium carbonate as the base. The total 5-MeO-DMT obtained from 100 grams of leaves was 478 mg. There was also 823 mg of DMT. SWIM’s friend isolated the 5-MeO-DMT from SWIM’s extract using column chromatography (don’t ask how he did it, I have no idea).

 

[69ron]

1) How do you make windowpane that is nice and even without air bubbles?

In dental labs, when pouring plaster into moulds, its done on a vibrating platform to kill air bubbles.

Thanks for the tip. SWIM will try a vibrating massager next time. He tried adding more water. That didn’t work so well and made it take forever to dry. Could it be the silicone baking pan surface causing the bubbles? It seems to be very grainy. Should glass be used instead as the mold?

 

[lorax]

i would guess that there might be special molds for this kind of thing. maybe even in funny forms. wouldn't it be cool to make little pink bunnys? add some food coloring to it to make it funky

 

[69ron]

Nice idea. I imagine putting a few drops of red, yellow, and blue coloring and swirling it to make a nice swirling colored pattern would look pretty cool.

I’ve looked around a little for some nice looking molds. I found tiny gummy bear molds that would work.

In the past SWIM had encountered various different kinds of acid gel tabs that looked very professionally laid. These were far nicer looking that what SWIM saw on-line. The coolest looking were the black gel pyramids (not the ones with the gold sprinkles). He also saw modern “windowpane” that was extremely nice looking. Each piece was perfectly square with a thinner frame around the square. It looked like a bunch of windows. The thin frame around each square made it very easy to tear a dose off the sheet.

I've read that the plastic light panel diffusers used for fluorescent lights are used to make the black pyramid type of acid gel tabs. Those looked pretty cool. Each one was shaped like a little pyramid. They were black in order to protect the acid from light. They had vitamin C added to protect the acid from oxygen. The manufacturer was indeed very knowledgeable about how to properly make acid gel tabs that would keep a long time on the shelf. The people making the clear windowpane hadn’t a clue how to protect the acid.

Well, since we’re supposed to be talking about 5-MeO-DMT here and not acid, I think there’s no need to protect it as much as there is with acid. 5-MeO-DMT seems to have a good shelf life. 5-MeO-DMT fumarate should last many years on the shelf. It’s not nearly as unstable as acid is.

I think a swirled color gel would look pretty cool. It could even be flavored and sweetened like a gummy bear. It’s best if its flat so that there is maximum surface area to tongue. Since it’s not acid, the idea is to get it all absorbed under the tongue. So for this reason a fairly flat shape is better than something like a gummy bear shape.

Have you seen any good molds?

 

[lorax]

isn't there some sort of carrier chemical which makes it easier to absorb stuff sublingually? also i would find it very cool to have some liquid 5-MeO-DMT which one could put on sugar cubes or just drop it under the tongue. what liquid holds the most 5-MeO-DMT? is it alcohol?

another thing one should maybe think about is letting the tabs look like regular medicine so they can easily be taken with you when travelling abroad. whats the legal status of 5-MeO-DMT?

 

[lorax]

in that mescaline extraction vid in the vid section that dude has one of those things to fill gel caps with. couldn't one use one of those things to make the tabs?

 

[69ron]

isn't there some sort of carrier chemical which makes it easier to absorb stuff sublingually?

Yes, that would be DMSO (and also alcohol to a much lesser degree). I have some DMSO. It’s food grade. It has a very poor evaporation rate (0.026, compared with water at 0.3), so it would probably stay stuck in the gel tabs for a long time after the water evaporated away.

also i would find it very cool to have some liquid 5-MeO-DMT which one could put on sugar cubes or just drop it under the tongue. what liquid holds the most 5-MeO-DMT? is it alcohol?

The best would probably be DMSO for this purpose if you want it to hit you fast. From what I’ve heard, DMSO will make 5-MeO-DMT absorb really fast sublingually, and so you’ll get an effect similar to that of smoking it. Supposedly the 5-MeO-DMT dose needed when using it sublingually in DMSO is so small that 10 mg produces an extremely powerful mind shattering trip. SWIM hasn’t tried it yet and can’t find and good reliable sources for information on using 5-MeO-DMT sublingually with DMSO. He’s a little nervous about it. He has tried DMT sublingually with DMSO and found that DMSO dramatically increases the strength of sublingual DMT. So he’s expecting that it will do the same for 5-MeO-DMT.

If you didn’t want the rapid onset, it would be better to use glycerin for making liquid. You can mix 2 parts glycerin with 1 part water for making a sublingual tincture. SWIM found that works for LSA.

another thing one should maybe think about is letting the tabs look like regular medicine so they can easily be taken with you when travelling abroad. whats the legal status of 5-MeO-DMT?

It’s legal in most parts of the world. But a few countries have recently outlawed it.

in that mescaline extraction vid in the vid section that dude has one of those things to fill gel caps with. couldn't one use one of those things to make the tabs?

That’s called a Cap-Em-Quick. I have a few of those. They’re great for filling capsules with powder, but it couldn’t be used to make gel tabs without modifying it. You can’t tell by looking at that video but it would definitely leak liquid gel all over the place.

 

[acolon_5]

isn't there some sort of carrier chemical which makes it easier to absorb stuff sublingually? also i would find it very cool to have some liquid 5-MeO-DMT which one could put on sugar cubes or just drop it under the tongue. what liquid holds the most 5-MeO-DMT? is it alcohol?

another thing one should maybe think about is letting the tabs look like regular medicine so they can easily be taken with you when travelling abroad. whats the legal status of 5-MeO-DMT?

Maybe a small flat square similar to those strip breath fresheners? Gummy Drops? Dunno, but it sounds like a pretty cold idea. Flavor with cinnamon, or berry flavor! Just make sure to keep it away from the kids...that's a disaster waiting to happen.

 

[drainlife20]

Has SWIY ever done a defat with glycerin? SWIM has some for this purpose but has yet to test it. He read somewhere that alkaloids aren't soluble in glycerin. He also read that when making an alcohol tincture, if 10% glycerin is used, you won't extract any tannins.

 

[69ron]

Maybe a small flat square similar to those strip breath fresheners? Gummy Drops? Dunno, but it sounds like a pretty cold idea. Flavor with cinnamon, or berry flavor! Just make sure to keep it away from the kids...that's a disaster waiting to happen.

I think the gummy candy idea is cool, but far too tempting for kids.

I like the idea of a flat square like those breath freshener strips. You could even make it so it fits one of those dispensers exactly if you could make it flat enough. You could add menthol crystals to it and sweetener to make it an actual breath freshener. If it looks like a breath freshener strip, people will be expecting you to keep it under your tongue, and won’t be wondering why you’re not swallowing it. That seems perfect. No one would think twice about that.

With that flat shape you maximize the surface area that touches the underside of the tongue ensuring the 5-MeO-DMT fumarate is absorbed efficiently. Also, it won’t look like candy so kids won’t be tempted to eat it.

I’ve had times when I’ve bought those breath freshener strips and they were all stuck together as one thick strip. So even if your strip wasn’t so thin, people would just think it was several pieces that melted together. But if it’s too thick you won’t be able to get it out of the dispenser.

Hmmm...look here...it's a caffeine strip with 25 mg of caffeine plus many other active ingredients:

I didn't think they could hold that much material. Those are apparently made of sodium alginate and not gelatin.

How do you make it so flat? The gels SWIM made are about 1.5 mm thick and those strips are not even 0.5 mm thick.

 

[69ron]

Has SWIY ever done a defat with glycerin? SWIM has some for this purpose but has yet to test it. He read somewhere that alkaloids aren't soluble in glycerin. He also read that when making an alcohol tincture, if 10% glycerin is used, you won't extract any tannins.

I think you're confusing that with mineral oil. Glycerin is a sugar alcohol and is soluble in water. You can't defat with it. Most alkaloid salts dissolve pretty well in glycerin. SWIM made an LSA ascorbate tincture with it using 2 parts glycerin and 1 part water. It worked very well. SWIM stored it in an amber jar and it’s kept for over a year without any noticeable potency loss.

 

[drainlife20]

SWIM figured it wasn't reliable information(was a product claiming that it didn't extract undesirable alkaloids because it used glycerin) so he wanted to test it, then he read this thread and realized he shouldn't waste his time. He's sure he'll find a use for it(like this recipe). Make your own mold

Of course you'll have to pour the liquid into the mold after it's heated rather than putting it all in the oven, but none the less. I'm sure there's a clay and glaze that would work even.

 

[Psilo-somatic]

I'm suprised those thin strips can hold 25mg of caffiene. Well I was going to ask if this would work, but im sure it will now. . .
SWIM was thinking SWIYs windowpane mix with regular DMT fumarate (which he is partial to over 5-Meo) with some DMSO to lower the dose needed and speed absorbtion. I figure even if you could only fit 25mg on one that would be cool for a light trip, and it would be pretty easy to use 3 or 4. Also howabout some harmala alks in there to further lower the required dose? SWIM is very interested in routes of administration other than smoking.
Let me know what you guys think and maybe SWIM will give it a try this weekend

 

[deedle-doo]

How do you make it so flat? The gels SWIM made are about 1.5 mm thick and those strips are not even 0.5 mm thick.

Put it in a thin paperback and carefully drive a car over it.

 

[69ron]

I'm suprised those thin strips can hold 25mg of caffiene. Well I was going to ask if this would work, but im sure it will now. . .
SWIM was thinking SWIYs windowpane mix with regular DMT fumarate (which he is partial to over 5-Meo) with some DMSO to lower the dose needed and speed absorbtion. I figure even if you could only fit 25mg on one that would be cool for a light trip, and it would be pretty easy to use 3 or 4. Also howabout some harmala alks in there to further lower the required dose? SWIM is very interested in routes of administration other than smoking.
Let me know what you guys think and maybe SWIM will give it a try this weekend

This will work, but it will be weak.

SWIM tried using 20 mg freebase DMT sublingually with 0.5 ml DMSO and 30 mg citric acid. He warmed it to 55 C for 2 minutes to dissolve all of it. He then took it sublingually. He got some effects, but the effect was very light. He never tried it with harmaline though.

According to Ott, you need only about 7.5 mg of harmaline for sublingual MAOI activity for other psychedelics. SWIM tried 7 mg of harmaline with 5 mg of 5-MeO-DMT sublingually and had a great time. It was much more visual than 5-MeO-DMT is alone.