5th huasca failure

[Safety Dancer]

I've tried pharmahuasca and ayahuasca a total of 5 times now. Pharmahuasca has simply never worked. And ayahuasca has made me (and every person I've done it with) vomit too soon for the effects to take hold.

I was so sure it would work the most recent attempt. I spent over 12 hours attentively brewing tea from psychotria viridis. For the MAOI I used harmala liquid extract as well as b. caapi liquid extract. I read all about them and know that they are much weaker than advertised. We took 14 droppers of harmala extract and 8 droppers of the b. caapi. The tea we had boiled down to a pretty small amount that we were able to get down in about 3-5 gulps. We both tried as hard as we could to hold it down, but after no more than a few minutes we both began vomiting. It wasn't due to the taste or anything like that, our stomachs just began purging despite our attempt to hold it down. I was wondering if there are any tips for making a less nauseating brew? I was thinking that maybe the concentration of it is what caused us to puke so quickly... we used vinegar in the water as well, a total of 6 tablespoons in a total of 3 consecutive pots which each began with 2 liters of distilled water in them. We filtered it using a shirt, and while the end result was a little bit thick, it seemed plenty filtered. Any ideas?

I had another idea that might help with the nausea, but I thought I would see what others thought about it. I was thinking that instead of drinking it as a tea, maybe I could boil it down, then let the remaining water evaporate in a glass dish, after which I could scrape the remains up, and put it into pill capsules and just take it that way. The idea being that pill capsules will take longer to release into my stomach, and thus might not cause such immediate nausea as did the concentrated tea. Thoughts?

 

[AntiEgo]

What i would do is get some Rue, do 3 pulls, of 3-5 grams. Wait 30mins to and Hour until you feel the MAOI inhibition then take your Dmt or DMT plant. Dmt metabolizes really fast so for me I have to wait for the inhibition which takes me an 1 hour, and that's with 2 days of fasting. It takes time and patience to get it right, but it is well worth it in the end.

 

[Global]

I don't know how well you're filtering your brew, but higher efficiency filtering will result in less nausea so that you can hopefully hold it down for long enough to take effect. It also might be your harmalas. I don't know if you have any DMT freebase, but next time you try to take ayahuasca, if it fails whether because you can't hold it down long enough or otherwise, you can try smoking some DMT. The point to this would be that if it's just a "regular" DMT trip and you're not being blown out of your socks, then you're not getting proper MAO inhibition, and your harmalas are indeed crap. If it is a stronger, longer smoked DMT experience, then you'll know that it's because you can't hold it down long enough. The good news is that if it turns out that you do discover you have the MAO inhibition by smoking the DMT, you should be off and running for a while in an ayahuasca-like world, and when you come down, if you've decided you've had enough, you can simply put the pipe down. If not, take another hit or two, and you'll be back up in the stratosphere for a bit.

 

[tigerstrike92]

Try not to think about the purge at all. Last time while waiting to purge, I played some video games while taking really deep breaths. I was able to hold it in for upwards of a half hour... which kind of seems like eternity. Also, I took a hit of cannabis, and that seemed to help me hold it in quite a bit longer.

 

[xoanon]

If you're using extract and still puking, you might be over doing the harmalas. Even if its clean extract, too much and you will puke, guaranteed. Either that or the medicine is trying to tell you something

 

[Global]

If you're using extract and still puking, you might be over doing the harmalas. Even if its clean extract, too much and you will puke, guaranteed. Either that or the medicine is trying to tell you something

This isn't true. Any amounts of the extract enough to provide MAO inhibition are enough to make you nauseous. Some people have weaker stomachs than others. I say this having one of the weakest of them all, but aside of my first ayahuasca experience where I did some pretty shitty filtering, I've always been able to hold it down for at least an hour. At the hour mark, whether I'm ready to go or not, I'll often try and puke to get the nausea out of the way so I can enjoy the rest of the experience without that holding me back.

 

[xoanon]

Well we can agree to disagree. I know from my own experience I can stomach a certain amount. But if I take 20mg more of the same haramla extract batch, I will be over the toilet. It's not tannins that induce vomiting in aya.

 

[Global]

Well we can agree to disagree. I know from my own experience I can stomach a certain amount. But if I take 20mg more of the same haramla extract batch, I will be over the toilet. It's not tannins that induce vomiting in aya.

Let's be clear about something. It's not like the nausea comes from any one particular place with aya. Part of what makes aya so nauseating is the fact that you can potentially have several nauseating agents from different aspects of the brew working on your stomach at once. Of course as you take more harmalas, it will become more and more nauseating, but realize that you're talking for yourself from the perspective of your own stomach. You're right in the sense that the more you take the more nauseating it will be, but for some even a particularly low dose of harmalas is enough to induce some pesky nausea. If you had another stomach, you'd have different theories. So nausea can come from the harmalas, it most definitely can come from tannins and if you don't think so, then take an amount of harmalas that wouldn't normally make you nauseous while doing some poor filtering and get back to me. Tannins most certainly will make you more sick. And last but not least, we have the DMT itself in the brew (with god knows what other alkaloids are nauseating in there) so between harmalas, tannins (if you don't filter properly) and DMT, you've got a big synergistic orgy of nauseating agents.

 

[xoanon]

Lol. Dude you need to check your ego. Seems to me you're missing the point of just about everything. In original post I said "might" as in one suggestion out of many possibilities. I add only constructive feedback, then you want to come in and post that my observations aren't true? Who do you think you are? And yes I have done your experiment. I can take x amount of extracted goods, or x amount of brew. As long as I know the yield % I adjust either extracted amount or grams of vine to brew. You posting, thinking your answers are the only definitive ones make you look like a fool. Oh yeah and it was your dumbass who hijacked one of my threads. I remember you. The hell that ignore button, that's enough of this business. Sorry op.

 

[jamie]

you need to drink more..that is all you need to do.

I have done this on a regular basis for quite a while now..I have sat with others and given them the tea..I have observed how this works. I have seen people need to drink 4 cups while the guy next to them goes way out with the first cup, but at some point it always hits.

When I dont feel the admixture hitting within 30 minutes or so..I know it is time to take more..if that doesnt get me to where I need to be I go drink some more..until it happens.

It does not sound like you needed more harmalas since you got sick. Sounds like you need more admixture.

It is not uncommon at all for people to drink 2 or 3 cups durring traditional ceremonies in the amazon until they are floored by the tea. Always have more on hand.

If you follow these rules you should not have any problems. Just dose until it happens. If you think you do need more harmalas..add a little bit to each redose of admixture..not too much though. You should only need to redose a little bit of harmalas.

 

[Global]

Lol. Dude you need to check your ego. Seems to me you're missing the point of just about everything. In original post I said "might" as in one suggestion out of many possibilities. I add only constructive feedback, then you want to come in and post that my observations aren't true? Who do you think you are? And yes I have done your experiment. I can take x amount of extracted goods, or x amount of brew. As long as I know the yield % I adjust either extracted amount or grams of vine to brew. You posting, thinking your answers are the only definitive ones make you look like a fool. Oh yeah and it was your dumbass who hijacked one of my threads. I remember you. The hell that ignore button, that's enough of this business. Sorry op.

I'm sorry that came off harsh. I'd like to know what thread it was I hijacked. In any case, I don't mean to come off hostile. There have just been a handful of occasions where I've weighed out my harmalas being a minimal amount for MAO inhibition, and time and time again, the harmalas only make me sick where I'm already nauseous before I even take the DMT while everybody else is fine and dandy. I conceded that you were right, that more will make you more nauseous, I must have missed the "might". Either way, I apologize.

 

[jamie]

I should have added to my post, that even if you puke it up some should have been absorbed and drinking more is the way to go if you are not where you want to be. IMO it is the admixture that causes alot of the vomiting, but that is just my experience with ayahuasca. It is the admixture that brings on a purge for me, even if the harmalas cause nausea.

You can try to reduce the admix down as much as possible and it does help..the more water you have the more the purge just sort of flows, which can be good if you can keep it down long enough to purge without loosing most of the actives.

The sooner you purge the more you may have to drink. I dunno what other advice I can give you. I know minxx cannot keep down a cup of strong reduced caapi by itself, so she mixes it into some almond milk otherwise she cant drink it anymore. For me I can drink a super reduced brew and I dont even get a gag reflex until I have taken admixture and am already having the experience..then I puke almost every time these days. For me it is the tryptamine peak that brings on a purge. Everyone is different.

 

[Safety Dancer]

I didn't feel nausea at all until immediately after drinking the admixture. As soon as I got it down, I felt a little nauseas, I rinsed and swallowed some OJ, then sat on the couch and started taking my mind off of it, but it was just no use. Perhaps I do need to just brew a large amount and just keep drinking it if it makes me purge, but I just wonder if I'd even be able to drink more immediately after purging... I feel like I'd just end up purging the second I take another drink at that point. It wasn't really a taste issue, so maybe I do need to filter better... We did take a lot of harmala this time because we were afraid of it not working and the potency of the extract was questionable... so that may have played a role, but since the purge came immediately after the admixture and I felt completely fine before it, I am leaning more towards that as the issue.

Any thoughts on whether evaporating the water and taking the resin in capsules would work? If it was indeed the admixture, I'm thinking it may be due to how concentrated our tea was. I boiled down 114g into only several ounces which we then split, so perhaps since the nauseating alkaloids were so concentrated it brought on the purge quicker...

 

[jamie]

I dunno about capsules. I dont like things in capsules because then I have a gummy tar sitting in my gut which is uncomfortable, but that is just how my body responds.

Another thing you can try is to consume the admixture slowly over a period of time..maybe sip slowly over 20-30 minutes. I often take an innitial dose of admixture, and then take another smaller dose 20 minutes after and then like 20 minutes after that a bit more to get me to where I want to be. Sometimes I just like to take it all at once as well but that can lead to more of a shock as it hits, and yeah more nausea.

If you do consume it slowly like that you will probly need a bit more admix for it to get you to the same place..but then again if it stops you from vomiting it right back up too soon it might be more resourceful than having to drink more admixture after you puke. The one thing about consuming the admix this way(and often times I add a bit of caapi or rue to each dose of admix as well just to push it a bit deeper) is that the peak will be a bit longer, but then the afterglow can be longer sometimes too I find..so that can be a plus, sometimes when it hits me real hard though I am glad I just took one innitial dose because I know that the peak will only last 30-60 minutes and then it will start to let go of me.

 

[ragabr]

The evaporating down to a solid does work, very well for the admixture, but you're still left with the tannins. It makes things easier. The egg white or gelatin teks could help you out a lot here, without having to evaporate. I know that jamie doesn't like them, but lots of us have found them extremely effective. You may want to compensate for a yield loss by increasing by a gram or two of MHRB.

Edit: Oops, forgot you were working with chacruna. Gelatin and egg white probably won't help much then.

 

[aliendreamtime]

so between harmalas, tannins (if you don't filter properly) and DMT, you've got a big synergistic orgy of nauseating agents.

Not to mention that b.caapi is woody, which means it has a lot of cellulose. We cannot process cellulose, so we vomit it out.

This will deffinately have an effect on filtering- how well you filter and how quickly you purge. Bad filtering = more cellulose(woody material)= quicker purge. Try filtering with cotton balls stuffed in a funnel after filtering with a tee shirt first.

If the admixture is making you go, I would bet you might be able to keep it down longer if you dont taste it, by whatever means necessary- chilling, holding the nose, evapping and stuffing gel caps etc. And as jamie says, take it slowly.

Maybe your not ready yet? Keep trying. Try to ask the aya what you need to do after you drink it, before you drink the admix.

Maybe you and the Chacruna just dont get along. I havent heard many success stories with chacruna on here. Maybe try MHRB and go back to Chacruna after you get some experience?

 

[AntiEgo]

You could add a little gelatine to your admixture, the tannins will bind with the proteins. then u can filter them out. Personally Harmalas make me feel woozy, but once the dmt kicks in It goes away=)

 

[hydrocarbon]

I know this has already been mentioned but I wanted to validate the point with my own experience: For me, MAO inhibition has to occur before I ingest the admixture or I will not feel it. Some people accomplish this by drinking multiple cups of brew. I prefer to take the harmala 45-60 minutes before the admixture so as to not waste admixture.

Also, the gelatin method of removing tannins from mimosa tea is amazingly effective, ime, of reducing nausea; I couldn't hold the stuff down for 15 minutes it was so nauseating but after using gelatin I had zero n/v. A good filtration setup has also helped immensely, but letting the brew rest in the fridge for a day then decanting off the liquid from the sediment several times has left me with a very clean and clear tea as well.