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A/B vs STB Comparison (pics) + FINAL TALLY!
- Thread starter jbark
- Start date
Your meticulous, perfectionistic work has produced the cleanest, whitest spice I’ve ever seen. Excellent work!
endlessness said:
If you use an extractor you can do the whole extraction process of 100 g mhrb with 0.5 l of water. Swim uses no more than 30 ml of heptane to defat these 0.5 l. Then she collects this dirty heptane and distills it. There is very little solvent loss.
I think extractors are the way to go. Some of them were invented hundreds of years ago and teks were polished almost to perfection.
(pics below)
So to deal with the emulsion issue on the last pull (5), I added first 1 heaping tsp full of NaOH to EACH jar. After a few hours, it appeared cloudier than before! So I added another heaping tsp full in each, and after 14 hours it has settled to what it was originally. Should I keep adding Lye? doesn't seem to be helping...
JBArk
So to deal with the emulsion issue on the last pull (5), I added first 1 heaping tsp full of NaOH to EACH jar. After a few hours, it appeared cloudier than before! So I added another heaping tsp full in each, and after 14 hours it has settled to what it was originally. Should I keep adding Lye? doesn't seem to be helping...
JBArk
Attachments
Add a bunch of pure salt (NaCl). The salt doesnt have to be technical grade or anything, just pure table salt or sea salt should work fine. Im not sure if iodized salt would present any problems, I think not but im no chemist, better ask someone with more knowledge. But just to make sure, I would say better get non-iodized salt
and yes add plenty more lye! more lye and salt wont hurt it in any way (it will only have the monetary costs of course). It will definitely settle and the settling should be immediate or in a few minutes, if you added enough lye and/or salt. If you're waiting for more than one hour and there isnt a huge difference, add plenty more
and yes add plenty more lye! more lye and salt wont hurt it in any way (it will only have the monetary costs of course). It will definitely settle and the settling should be immediate or in a few minutes, if you added enough lye and/or salt. If you're waiting for more than one hour and there isnt a huge difference, add plenty more
Update:
STB
About to decant pull 5 from the STB to freeze along with pull 4
"A/B"
Added 50g lye (plus 3 heaping tsp full to cure emulsion) then added heated naptha as per panoramix's tek. Strangely, the layers separated nicely after only 3 additional tsp of lye... To sum up: STB required approx. 175g lye; panoramix's A/B required approx 90-100g.
How is it that a basified aqueous solution takes almost twice the NaOH as an acidified solution? Shouldn't the acid need to be neutralised with a given quantity of lye before it starts to be basified, hence requiring more than if starting with a relatively neutral solution of water?
Anyway, the pics below show the first pull naptha from the "A/B" compared visually with the fifth pull from the STB. A white foamcore was placed behind for more accurate colour comparisons. The A/B appears yellowish, while the STB has a distinct blue/green tint. I must note that the STB pair sat overnight for 18 hours, while the A/B has only been sitting for slightly over 3 hours. This may account for the hue difference - I'll keep you posted.
Cheers,
JBArk
EDIT: just a little safety note: as I was crushing the clump of NaOH, a tiny fleck flew up and under the protective goggles. Luckily it landed next to my eye, but I felt a burning sensation there a moment later and diluted it with vinegar I had on standby, then washed it with water. I can only cringe to think what I would have done had it gone in my eye... so, remember kiddies - SAFETY FIRST!!
STB
About to decant pull 5 from the STB to freeze along with pull 4
"A/B"
Added 50g lye (plus 3 heaping tsp full to cure emulsion) then added heated naptha as per panoramix's tek. Strangely, the layers separated nicely after only 3 additional tsp of lye... To sum up: STB required approx. 175g lye; panoramix's A/B required approx 90-100g.
How is it that a basified aqueous solution takes almost twice the NaOH as an acidified solution? Shouldn't the acid need to be neutralised with a given quantity of lye before it starts to be basified, hence requiring more than if starting with a relatively neutral solution of water?
Anyway, the pics below show the first pull naptha from the "A/B" compared visually with the fifth pull from the STB. A white foamcore was placed behind for more accurate colour comparisons. The A/B appears yellowish, while the STB has a distinct blue/green tint. I must note that the STB pair sat overnight for 18 hours, while the A/B has only been sitting for slightly over 3 hours. This may account for the hue difference - I'll keep you posted.
Cheers,
JBArk
EDIT: just a little safety note: as I was crushing the clump of NaOH, a tiny fleck flew up and under the protective goggles. Luckily it landed next to my eye, but I felt a burning sensation there a moment later and diluted it with vinegar I had on standby, then washed it with water. I can only cringe to think what I would have done had it gone in my eye... so, remember kiddies - SAFETY FIRST!!
Attachments
sigmundfreuid
Rising Star
Why is the STB jar green ? Is this even normal ? Looks freaky.
sigmundfreuid said:
I am using coleman's, so that might account for the slight blue discoloration. the colour is amplified in the photo.
JBArk
oh boy, green blue?! jeez, I would really NOT smoke something that comes from a green blue naphtha, thats no good.... did you do an evap test on it?
endlessness said:
No, but I will freeze precip then clean and re-x. Coleman's is notorious for this, but it's either that , Escort brand camp fuel (which I believe is the same as Coleman's, or Ronsonol in Canada...
JBArk
sigmundfreuid
Rising Star
Oh thats why,Coleman has Anti rust chemicals which makes it bluish or green .
even if you freeze precipitate and clean and re-x, you're still using a solvent that gets blue/green! That means possibly toxic rust-inhibitors and what not. Maybe re-x makes it seem white and clean but who knows if there isnt anything that you cant see ? your body is a temple man, be careful, treat it well! Do as you please, you are the one that has to decide if you think its ok or not, but I can only say that I personally wouldnt smoke it unless I would find a clean solvent to re-x 3 times or smt. And man, always, always do an evap test on whatever solvent youre gonna use!
I cant wait to see you try the limo xtractions
I cant wait to see you try the limo xtractions
endlessness said:even if you freeze precipitate and clean and re-x, you're still using a solvent that gets blue/green! That means possibly toxic rust-inhibitors and what not. Maybe re-x makes it seem white and clean but who knows if there isnt anything that you cant see ? your body is a temple man, be careful, treat it well! Do as you please, you are the one that has to decide if you think its ok or not, but I can only say that I personally wouldnt smoke it unless I would find a clean solvent to re-x 3 times or smt. And man, always, always do an evap test on whatever solvent youre gonna use!
I cant wait to see you try the limo xtractions
I understand and appreciate your concern endlessness, but The re-x will be done with bestine. It's the best i can do.
Besides, this impurity has a colour - what about all the other impurities from other sources that are colourless? do they show up in an evap test? we're all sort of rolling the dice here, even with a pure final product - question of degree.
The alternatives are to give up this hobby, smuggle some VM&P over the border or buy street DMT. None are attractive options... The bestine seems to really clean it up though. If any Canadians out there can suggest an alternative, I'm all ears.
We'd all like to take a limo everywhere
. Seriously though, it's likely the next step.JBArk
sigmundfreuid
Rising Star
SWIM says to check this out and maybe ask q21q21 for advice on that matter
jbark said:endlessness said:even if you freeze precipitate and clean and re-x, you're still using a solvent that gets blue/green! That means possibly toxic rust-inhibitors and what not. Maybe re-x makes it seem white and clean but who knows if there isnt anything that you cant see ? your body is a temple man, be careful, treat it well! Do as you please, you are the one that has to decide if you think its ok or not, but I can only say that I personally wouldnt smoke it unless I would find a clean solvent to re-x 3 times or smt. And man, always, always do an evap test on whatever solvent youre gonna use!
I cant wait to see you try the limo xtractions
I understand and appreciate your concern endlessness, but The re-x will be done with bestine. It's the best i can do.
Besides, this impurity has a colour - what about all the other impurities from other sources that are colourless? do they show up in an evap test? we're all sort of rolling the dice here, even with a pure final product - question of degree.
The alternatives are to give up this hobby, smuggle some VM&P over the border or buy street DMT. None are attractive options... The bestine seems to really clean it up though. If any Canadians out there can suggest an alternative, I'm all ears.
We'd all like to take a limo everywhere
JBArk
ah, ok so you DO have a solvent that evaps clean (if I understand it right, bestine is pure heptane, right?). Why dont you extract with bestine then? It might be a bit less efficient than naphtha (maybe more expensive too...?) but at least you´re not needing to add the weird unknown blue/green factor to the story, even if it MIGHT clean it up afterwards, right?
You say we are all rolling the dice but I think its completely different if you do an evap test AND check msds/chemical analysis of the solvent, than if you are using a solvent with the unknown green/blue factor and hopefully cleaning it up later. Or what do you say?
Again, do as you feel is right, im just genuinely concerned for you
All the best to your extraction in any case
jbark said:
I am not a Canadian but I would suggest to assemble a distillation setup. After running your solvent through it you can be reasonably sure it is clean.
endlessness said:
Bestine is a rubber cement solvent brand name for heptane. Two reasons I don't use it as a primary solvent:
1) prohibitively expensive: $18 + tax for 250 ml.
2} quebec recently outlawed it because A) there was no french on the label AND, B) The ingredients/contents listed on the can did not correspond to the requirements of quebec bylaw. it has been pulled from the shelves indefinitely, but I happen to know a local supplier who is overstocked:wink:
JBArk
I think I might buy a can of Escort brand and evap test it against the colemans. For now though, I will continue with my remaining colemans, for the sake of the experiment - changing solvents midstream would hardly be sound scientific protocol:shock:
JBArk
Trickster said:
Sounds frightfully dangerous - a volatile solvent bubbling away over an open flame... Begs the question: which is more healthful, smoking potential impurities or - burning to death???!!
JBArk
jbark said:Trickster said:Sounds frightfully dangerous - a volatile solvent bubbling away over an open flame... Begs the question: which is more healthful, smoking potential impurities or - burning to death???!!
JBArk
That is if you do it the way you describe - over an open fire.
If you use a heating mantle or a lab hotplate with a temp controller you will be fine. Just make sure there is no clicking noise when it goes on and off. Clicking means that there is an electromagnetic relay inside that may cause sparks.
Of course your glass joints should be hermetically sealed and your work area ventillated. Not too difficult.
Trickster said:jbark said:Trickster said:Sounds frightfully dangerous - a volatile solvent bubbling away over an open flame... Begs the question: which is more healthful, smoking potential impurities or - burning to death???!!
JBArk
That is if you do it the way you describe - over an open fire.
If you use a heating mantle or a lab hotplate with a temp controller you will be fine. Just make sure there is no clicking noise when it goes on and off. Clicking means that there is an electromagnetic relay inside that may cause sparks.
Of course your glass joints should be hermetically sealed and your work area ventillated. Not too difficult.
Thanks Trickster, i'll look into it. There is a Lab supplies store not far from me, so I'll check in and see how pricey it is. As long as I don't burn the house down, I think i can handle it!!
Cheers,
JBArk