A Christian Psychonaut

[jaskop]

Hello Everyone!
This is my first post to any type of discussion forum like this, so you'll have to excuse my inexperience. With that out of the way, I'll give a little background. I've been using psychedelics for about a dozen years or so, with hundreds of experiences with LSD and mushrooms, as well as some infrequent experiences with mescaline and salvia. I also consider myself a spiritual person in the manner of the christian faith, but my most profound spiritual experiences have been on psychedelics. One time I took so many mushrooms I forgot I was even human, I had to remind myself what hands and eyes were, and it took me forever to remember my name. All in all a great experience! The reason why I'm here on this website posting now, is that I have recently acquired some jungle spice DMT for the first time and am trying to learn as much as possible before embarking. My primary motivation for exploring the DMT experience is to learn about myself, the world, and God; my secondary motivation is pure curiosity. I would thoroughly enjoy any advice that anyone could give to an experienced explorer that hasn't taken a ride on the DMT roller-coaster yet. I would also be willing to share more trip experiences in much more detail if anyone is interested. Thank you all for contributing to what seems to me to be a very welcoming environment for a newbie such as myself!

 

[daedaloops]

Hello!
Im a newcomer here too, but your story made me curious so I have to ask, have your psychedelic experiences somehow affected your christianity, or conflicted with it? Seeing as you have so many years of psychedelic use behind you, I find it interesting that you can still keep your christian beliefs, such as monotheism. And I mean no disrespect by this, I'm just honestly interested to know.

And as for DMT advice, I would say that if you've already had such a strong mushroom experience, then you'll probably find that DMT isn't gonna be that much different. Obviously in some ways tho.

 

[ntwhtyouknw]

Hey friend, welcome to the Nexus. It was refreshing to read your intro. I myself am on a similar path. I don't much like to label my own spiritual beliefs and practices as I see them all pretty much as one in the same, though I do research and have much faith in the Christian belief as well as Islam and Zen among others. Having some spiritual beliefs and practices I think help greatly on the Entheogenic path and mesh with it as well, be it whichever path you follow, they all lead to the same place. One thing I learned on my journeys is that It's best to dabble and not put full credit into any of "my" beliefs as they are always evolving and unfolding. I just watch for whatever it is to be shown to me in the moment. I look forward to hearing from you and how your experiences go. I have been on a long and much need break from substances of any sort, though the time is coming for me to practice with Entheogens again. Also if I could recommend some reading that has helped me a great deal understanding Christianity much more deeply, I would ask you to Google ACIM. Much love.

 

[Ford Prefect]

Jaskop, we are sharing a Syncronised Hyperspace Event (SHE) today 3/3. It may be a good day to try your sacrament.

As far as what to expect, it sounds like the shrooms took you pretty far. If you can handle that, DMT will be a sinch. Dont be afraid. I tried 300x salvia years before DMT. I had a full breakthrough, I was convinced I died and returned to the creation place. I felt my body dissolve into the either. I saw gods people making machine, a vibrating energy of different mechanical fassets. It was assembling souls to be born. then I was reborn. Babbling something about the 'Hollie Boomdrux', thats what I was told to call that place. I havent been that far out on DMT yet. For me in comparison salvia is a harsher more unnerving experience. DMT seems more friendly in my opinion(my peers agree).

I'm curious about your salvia experiences.

Also on the christian tip, checkout the Santo Diame Church @ www.santodiame.org
They exist in the United States as well as South America. They drink ayahuasca legaly and read from the bible and sing hymns. This may be the church for you someday.

 

[unclesyd]

I am also a christian voyageur. Well I term myself more of a buddha-christ, cause I like to blend the two together. I really believe there is no one way to God, but many. And all the worlds different faiths point to that exact end goal. Sure some can be misconstrued by the masses, but if you pick apart the core, most have the coming home to God as their central goal of everything.

I mean back in Sunday School/communion there would be these bible stories of the prophets disappearing in the deserts for days to go meditate. I was like isnt that what Buddhists do???? Of course no tone of importance was focused on this, because you pray before you go to sleep silly. Or that two out of the three gifts to the baby Jesus were incense.......

I really dont find the use of psychedelics to go against any religion, especially Christianity. Most likely we dont hold the typical beliefs or dogmas as the stereo-typical christians, but still can be. I find it harder to conceive someone using these substance without a spiritual context.

Welcome, hope you find this site education, I definitely have.

 

[jaskop]

Hello everyone, I appreciate all of you comments and questions, so let me take some time to answer each in turn.

have your psychedelic experiences somehow affected your christianity, or conflicted with it? Seeing as you have so many years of psychedelic use behind you, I find it interesting that you can still keep your christian beliefs, such as monotheism.

That is a good question, and I have to say that my answer would be the same as what unclesyd said below. But to put things in my own words, this is how I see it:
There has been a tradition of mystical christianity, arguably since the apostles, and I believe this is consistent with other world religions. It is as if you took a sentence and translated it into a handful of languages. If one only listens to the sound of the sentences, or looks at the form of the letters that comprise the sentence, they would appear very different; but they all express the same meaning, and are thereby united. This is just my personal belief, but I also believe that psychedelics allow one to briefly glimpse that single thread of meaning that runs through the different languages, so to speak. To make a long story short, I have found that me experiences did not conflict with my beliefs, but have definitely shaped them to a non-standard interpretation of certain critical passages. In terms of monotheism in general, since that was mentioned, I see the universe as one connected whole, united by a single universal substance (sat-chit-ananda), and with such a unity, there is no room for more than one God in my version of the universe. These are just my personal beliefs, but I would love to hear if anyone has another way to look at it. I'm always willing to listen to another perspective.

 

[jaskop]

I don't much like to label my own spiritual beliefs and practices as I see them all pretty much as one in the same, though I do research and have much faith in the Christian belief as well as Islam and Zen among others. Having some spiritual beliefs and practices I think help greatly on the Entheogenic path and mesh with it as well, be it whichever path you follow, they all lead to the same place. One thing I learned on my journeys is that It's best to dabble and not put full credit into any of "my" beliefs as they are always evolving and unfolding. I just watch for whatever it is to be shown to me in the moment.

I agree with every word you said. I too have trouble labeling myself. I call myself a Christian for historical as well as other reasons, but I could equally call myself a Taoist, a Buddhist, a Hindu, or a Muslim. I think there is an incomparable amount of good to be had from reading the spiritual texts from different religions, so I understand exactly what you mean.

Also if I could recommend some reading that has helped me a great deal understanding Christianity much more deeply, I would ask you to Google ACIM

Thanks for the tip, I looked into it briefly and I will definitely check it out in more detail, as everything I read so far sounds good to me.

 

[alert]

In terms of monotheism in general, since that was mentioned, I see the universe as one connected whole, united by a single universal substance (sat-chit-ananda), and with such a unity, there is no room for more than one God in my version of the universe. These are just my personal beliefs, but I would love to hear if anyone has another way to look at it. I'm always willing to listen to another perspective.

I agree there is an interconnectedness between everything. The way I look at it is that divinity is within everything. Most Christians seem to see God as separate from themselves, but there are a few verses from the bible that I'd like to share:

Luke 17:21

nor will people say, 'Here it is,' or 'There it is,' because the kingdom of God is within you."

Psalm 46:10

He says, “Be still, and know that I am God;

This is similar to the Hindu idea of Atman being Brahman. Pretty much every religion has a certain amount of followers who believe in a non-dualistic reality, from Advaita Vedanta to Kabbalah to Christian mystics to the Islamic Sufis. I personally believe there are many different paths to a single truth.

 

[jaskop]

we are sharing a Syncronised Hyperspace Event (SHE) today 3/3. It may be a good day to try your sacrament.

This is the first I've heard of a Synchronized Hyperspace Event, but it sounds like an awesome idea. External factors prevented me from trying it this weekend, but I will try it soon. Just an idea: what about a SHE at the moment of the winter solstice, December 21, 2012? If the world ends, everyone will already be in hyperspace! I don't know, just an idea.

I tried 300x salvia years before DMT. I had a full breakthrough, I was convinced I died and returned to the creation place. I felt my body dissolve into the either. I saw gods people making machine, a vibrating energy of different mechanical fassets. It was assembling souls to be born. then I was reborn. Babbling something about the 'Hollie Boomdrux', thats what I was told to call that place.

That's hilarious! I have never been to Hollie Boomdrux before (couldn't find it on Google maps), but now I'm just curious.

I'm curious about your salvia experiences.

Most of my salvia experiences have been somewhat unnerving. I always get the impression that there are entities in my mind that are discussing my fate, and can't figure out what to do with me. One time they appeared as blue, red, and yellow colored planes converging to a point and moving me in a direction to nowhere. The most intense time, was the first time. I was in my room, took a large hit while sitting on my bed, and then before I knew it I was flying through a suburban neighborhood. Not in my head, but the outside world had changed it's appearance. This is the one and only time my whole external reality around me changed to something vastly different. Shrooms and LSD may distort some images, but I always know where I am. So I'm flying through this neighborhood, and then I notice this house that looks familiar, so I start flying down towards the garage. Once I'm close enough, I reach out and touch the garage door, and then it slowly starts changing into my dresser drawer. Everything slowly faded back, and I realized that my blue sheets were turned into the sky, and the rectangular pattern of my drawers had turned into the garage door. It was like my mind took the basic geometry of the room, and then projected an image on top that was consistent with the geometry. I don't think I could appreciate how fragile my perception of reality is until it wildly changed with the introduction of a simple chemical. And I believe this was a good lesson for me to learn.

Also on the christian tip, checkout the Santo Diame Church @ www.santodiame.org
They exist in the United States as well as South America. They drink ayahuasca legaly and read from the bible and sing hymns. This may be the church for you someday.

Thanks for the tip. One of my goals is to find others like myself, and this church looks like a good place.

 

[jaskop]

I really believe there is no one way to God, but many. And all the worlds different faiths point to that exact end goal. Sure some can be misconstrued by the masses, but if you pick apart the core, most have the coming home to God as their central goal of everything.

I couldn't possibly agree more!

I mean back in Sunday School/communion there would be these bible stories of the prophets disappearing in the deserts for days to go meditate. I was like isnt that what Buddhists do???? Of course no tone of importance was focused on this, because you pray before you go to sleep silly. Or that two out of the three gifts to the baby Jesus were incense.......

I also find it strange that meditation and prayer are considered fundamentally different by many Christians. In fact, it says in the Psalms, "Be still and know that I am God". That could be taken directly out of a Hindu book on meditation.

I really dont find the use of psychedelics to go against any religion, especially Christianity. Most likely we dont hold the typical beliefs or dogmas as the stereo-typical christians, but still can be. I find it harder to conceive someone using these substance without a spiritual context.

I completely agree. I only wish that more Christians were able to understand that so that I wouldn't feel so isolated in the church as it is currently. It is hard to find others in the church that see the world similarly to how I see it, but I'm glad I found some people on this website that understand where I'm coming from. I'm glad I signed up.

 

[SWIMfriend]

jaskop,

I'm wondering...when jesus claimed that the only way to god is through him...why do you suppose he didn't append that with "er...or through the use of psychedelics" ?

 

[jaskop]

I agree there is an interconnectedness between everything. The way I look at it is that divinity is within everything. Most Christians seem to see God as separate from themselves, but there are a few verses from the bible that I'd like to share:

Luke 17:21

nor will people say, 'Here it is,' or 'There it is,' because the kingdom of God is within you."

Psalm 46:10

He says, “Be still, and know that I am God;

How funny, I just quoted the passage in Psalms before reading your post! And I agree with the divinity being within everything, and I find that to be one of the most fascinating and comforting beliefs.

This is similar to the Hindu idea of Atman being Brahman. Pretty much every religion has a certain amount of followers who believe in a non-dualistic reality, from Advaita Vedanta to Kabbalah to Christian mystics to the Islamic Sufis. I personally believe there are many different paths to a single truth.

Totally! If only religious practitioners around the world would perceive this unity, I believe there would be a lot less interfaith conflict.

 

[jaskop]

jaskop,

I'm wondering...when jesus claimed that the only way to god is through him...why do you suppose he didn't append that with "er...or through the use of psychedelics" ?

That's a good question. This is just my personal belief, but I interpret that as not applying to the person Jesus, but the universal Christ. The first book of John identifies the Christ with the Logos, or Word of God. And then it goes on the explain that this Logos or Word, is the means responsible for creation. This to me appears to be a force acting within the universe, and not limited to a historical human being. Although, I do believe that universal force became flesh and manifested as the historical Christ. I believe that this universal force is the route that leads to God, the Father, and therefore you must go through Christ to get to the Father. The question is whether this universal force has been described in other religions, thereby giving that statement a wider validity. He said, "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life", and if you focus on the first part, as Christ being the Way, then I find it interesting that the word Tao is translated as Way. So I understand him to say, "I am the Tao, the Truth, and the Life". From reading Taoist literature, it does appear that the Tao is a universal force that acts in a way similar to that described in the beginning of John, as well as other places. I could trace connections to other religions if you prefer, but this is an example of my way of interpreting things. Otherwise, that statement can be used as the basic foundation for religious division, and that is not something I think is good. These are just my beliefs, I do not say everyone else is wrong, but I do think you have to chose an interpretation and stick with it. Why not mention psychedelics? He didn't mention a lot of ways to grow closer to God, psychedelics are just one IMO. Thanks for the question!

 

[SWIMfriend]

^^ Well said. I like your interpretation...although it does puzzle me why you feel the need to box yourself in with the label christian--especially since that is generally taken to mean something QUITE SPECIFIC--and contrary to what you're describing.

I'm personally "turned off" by hearing someone's self-description as a "christian" BECAUSE of the meaning that is given in popular culture: a member of a club of believers in the literal truth of an ancient story, and that the details of that story impinge directly upon their lives.

 

[jaskop]

although it does puzzle me why you feel the need to box yourself in with the label christian--especially since that is generally taken to mean something QUITE SPECIFIC--and contrary to what you're describing.

Well, I identify myself as Christian, because I do believe what I interpret the Bible to say. It would be incorrect to say I'm not a Christian. But this puts me in a box of other peoples making, and I find that difficult to deal with. I publicly labeled myself as Christian on this website in order to generate discussion on a topic I find interesting and important, and also in the small hope that there is someone else out there in the world that does not find christian beliefs to be inconsistent with psychedelic use. I suppose nobody wants to feel like they are the only one in the world that believes what they believe-many people that fit that description are just crazy.

I'm personally "turned off" by hearing someone's self-description as a "christian" BECAUSE of the meaning that is given in popular culture: a member of a club of believers in the literal truth of an ancient story, and that the details of that story impinge directly upon their lives.

I apologize if you were turned off by my self description. I read the rules on posting for this site, and it seemed like it was pretty open to differing viewpoints, so I thought I'd throw mine out there. I never meant to offend.

 

[SWIMfriend]

Turned off =\= offend. You haven't offended. And I'm glad you want discussion--I'd like to discuss more, too.

I really am curious about your choice to define yourself as a christian. You say you believe YOUR interpretation of the bible, but, as you've said, your interpretation seems to not exclude, say, taoism and buddhism. So again, it would seem that one would decide to call oneself a christian if the new testament EXCLUSIVELY described a scenario he thought was true. But you seem to say that the truth you find in the bible is NOT exclusive--that other religions say the same thing.

 

[tony]

jaskop, I disagree with your view that all religions are essentially the same or that they all express the same meaning at their core. I think there are very clear distinctions between religions which point to completely contradictory views of the nature of reality. I think it requires some serious mental gymnastics to conclude that the differences between, for example, Buddhism and Islam, are merely superficial or a matter of perspective. This conclusion can only (in my opinion) be reached if you are willing to completely disregard what the texts and teachings of these religions actually say... or if you haven't really read much of the texts of the different religions and are just making an assumption based on how you'd like things to be.

People seem to be able to make religions say whatever they want them to say, I find this both convenient (for them) and disturbing. That being said, as interpretations go, I like yours. I think if more people interpreted things the way you did then there would be a lot less conflict between religious folks.

I haven't found any use for religion in my life, nor found any religion which stands up to rational probing (Buddhism does very well though), so I pay very little attention to any of them. There are some useful things which can be gleaned from the teachings of religions... but I don't feel the need to take any of the doctrines, dogmas or unverifiable claims as anything other than fairy tales. I could be wrong of course.

 

[SWIMfriend]

Ph0G,

I agree with certain aspects of the "all religions are the same" idea: I think all people interested in a spiritual perspective instinctively feel that there exists some "central truth" or "unifying understanding" that some, for example, would call "god."

But I agree with you that as soon as you CALL yourself a member of one particular religion, you MUST be seen as setting up boundaries that differentiate your beliefs from the beliefs of others. What's the purpose of using a word (such as the name of a religion) unless you want to SPECIFY something?

 

[jaskop]

Turned off =\= offend. You haven't offended.

That's good to hear.

I really am curious about your choice to define yourself as a christian. You say you believe YOUR interpretation of the bible, but, as you've said, your interpretation seems to not exclude, say, taoism and buddhism. So again, it would seem that one would decide to call oneself a christian if the new testament EXCLUSIVELY described a scenario he thought was true. But you seem to say that the truth you find in the bible is NOT exclusive--that other religions say the same thing.

I guess the point where I would disagree is that calling oneself a christian implies an exclusive view of religion. This problem doesn't arise in Hinduism. Vedanta lays out different paths to union with God (different forms of Yoga), and Christianity fits nicely into the Bhakti yoga framework. So here is a large metaphysical framework that allows for different outward expressions of religion, without any coming into conflict. To call myself a christian is to say that I practice a particular type of Bhakti yoga, and not to say that this form of Bhakti yoga is the only path. Unfortunately, most Christians take an exclusive perspective of things, and this has led me to many long intense discussions with other Christians I respect and care about, and eventually led me to stop going to church. I hope this helps you understand my perspective better. Let me know if you have any other questions or want to discuss this further. I loathe small talk, but could have a discussion about religion or similar matters all day long.

 

[tony]

Ph0G,

I agree with certain aspects of the "all religions are the same" idea: I think all people interested in a spiritual perspective instinctively feel that there exists some "central truth" or "unifying understanding" that some, for example, would call "god."

But I agree with you that as soon as you CALL yourself a member of one particular religion, you MUST be seen as setting up boundaries that differentiate your beliefs from the beliefs of others. What's the purpose of using a word (such as the name of a religion) unless you want to SPECIFY something?

Well... I guess on that level all religions could be viewed as the same regardless of what they say. Doesn't seem very useful though. Firstly, they all have different views on what this truth is and secondly none of them seem to have any more clue than any of the others (I'm not saying the non-religious have any real clue either). Using that type of logic we could also say that all people are the same since they are all fundamentally made of carbon... it is of course true, but in practicality it is useless.

What would be the use of using a word such as "god" unless you wanted to specify something. The vast majority of people who refer to "god" are referring to an entity separate from us, and indeed separate from space and time completely. I'm inclined to think that if someone is not referring to this then they should use a different word.