A Christian Psychonaut

[SWIMfriend]

Turned off =\= offend. You haven't offended.

That's good to hear.

I really am curious about your choice to define yourself as a christian. You say you believe YOUR interpretation of the bible, but, as you've said, your interpretation seems to not exclude, say, taoism and buddhism. So again, it would seem that one would decide to call oneself a christian if the new testament EXCLUSIVELY described a scenario he thought was true. But you seem to say that the truth you find in the bible is NOT exclusive--that other religions say the same thing.

I guess the point where I would disagree is that calling oneself a christian implies an exclusive view of religion. This problem doesn't arise in Hinduism. Vedanta lays out different paths to union with God (different forms of Yoga), and Christianity fits nicely into the Bhakti yoga framework. So here is a large metaphysical framework that allows for different outward expressions of religion, without any coming into conflict. To call myself a christian is to say that I practice a particular type of Bhakti yoga, and not to say that this form of Bhakti yoga is the only path. Unfortunately, most Christians take an exclusive perspective of things, and this has led me to many long intense discussions with other Christians I respect and care about, and eventually led me to stop going to church. I hope this helps you understand my perspective better. Let me know if you have any other questions or want to discuss this further. I loathe small talk, but could have a discussion about religion or similar matters all day long.

Well...I'm not sure how the discussion can continue much further without it turning into an...argument. I personally have a difficult time with vagueness. I'm endlessly fascinated by the conundrum (which I confront daily, as an American) of people who find it vitally important to define themselves as christian, even though what they mean is something very different from what OTHERS define as christian. Many Americans, particularly, seem to have made a mantra of the word--or use it to invoke whatever they personally want it to invoke.

Your situation, however, seems to really "take the cake." Nothing you say seems AT ALL to align with anything I've heard of as "christian," so your use of the term, in particular, seems pure affectation.

Again however, let me return to, and rephrase, my original question: If use of psychedelics can further the practice of christianity, and psychedelics have been a part of the human experience for thousands of years, why do you suppose mention of psychedelics was left out of the bible? Or was it?

 

[jaskop]

jaskop, I disagree with your view that all religions are essentially the same or that they all express the same meaning at their core. I think there are very clear distinctions between religions which point to completely contradictory views of the nature of reality. I think it requires some serious mental gymnastics to conclude that the differences between, for example, Buddhism and Islam, are merely superficial or a matter of perspective. This conclusion can only (in my opinion) be reached if you are willing to completely disregard what the texts and teachings of these religions actually say... or if you haven't really read much of the texts of the different religions and are just making an assumption based on how you'd like things to be.

I respect your view, but I think we'll have to agree to disagree. I have spent a considerable amount of time studying the texts of the major world religions, and have taken that task very seriously. This is not to say I'm correct, but only that I didn't arrive at my view without many years of intense thought.

That being said, as interpretations go, I like yours. I think if more people interpreted things the way you did then there would be a lot less conflict between religious folks.

Thanks. I'm fond of my interpretation also.

I haven't found any use for religion in my life, nor found any religion which stands up to rational probing (Buddhism does very well though), so I pay very little attention to any of them. There are some useful things which can be gleaned from the teachings of religions... but I don't feel the need to take any of the doctrines, dogmas or unverifiable claims as anything other than fairy tales. I could be wrong of course.

I think your perspective is very rational, and I do not think everyone should follow some religious path, it is just the path I've chosen.

 

[7Entities]

The reason why I'm here on this website posting now, is that I have recently acquired some jungle spice DMT for the first time and am trying to learn as much as possible before embarking.

Acquired how?

 

[jaskop]

as an American

Other than simply being a citizen, i think many people will differ with what it means to be an American. Some think supporting our government and troops make you more American, whereas others think that checking the government through protest is the real American tradition. For me, part of being an American is having religious freedom, which involves being able to confront religions myself and find the interpretation that makes the most sense to me. Being a christian is similar to me. I call myself a christian because I think Jesus was a historical person, and that he was resurrected and all that. That constitutes my christian citizenship if you will. But just as different Americans can interpret the constitution differently, as permitting or excluding more or less government functions (Obama vs. Paul), I think that different christians can interpret the bible differently as long as it is consistent with the criteria for "citizenship". That's about as good as I can explain my view.

Again however, let me return to, and rephrase, my original question: If use of psychedelics can further the practice of christianity, and psychedelics have been a part of the human experience for thousands of years, why do you suppose mention of psychedelics was left out of the bible? Or was it?

I do not know, but would only be able to speculate. I will check out the link soon, and maybe have a different perspective. Thanks!

 

[jaskop]

Acquired how?

I believe the rules say that I cannot discuss how I acquired it. Otherwise I would have no problem sharing. If there is another place for discussing such matters, then let me know. But I don't want to violate the rules in this message board.

 

[SWIMfriend]

I call myself a christian because I think Jesus was a historical person, and that he was resurrected and all that.

OK. Now we're getting somewhere. Now tell me, what does it MEAN that jesus was resurrected? Did it mean that he has some place in a "pantheon" of abrahamic godship? Is he "god's son" in a manner that nobody else is or can be? Or was he just a very capable mystic/shaman who could perform such a nifty feat?

 

[jaskop]

OK. Now we're getting somewhere. Now tell me, what does it MEAN that jesus was resurrected?

I believe it means that God raised him from the dead, not that he raised himself. How? That's far beyond my speculative capacities.

Did it mean that he has some place in a "pantheon" of abrahamic godship? Is he "god's son" in a manner that nobody else is or can be? Or was he just a very capable mystic/shaman who could perform such a nifty feat?

I believe he is called "god's son" because he is a representation of God, as it says in the book of Hebrews. A representation is never identical to that being represented, but there is some type of unity. With that said, I believe that others could possibly be representations of God if they lived a life without "sin" (there is no secular word that captures the same idea). I think he was a very capable shaman/mystic, but I do not believed he raised himself, and the bible says he didn't, so I don't think he performed any "nifty feat".

 

[SWIMfriend]

OK. Jesus was sinless and god resurrected him.

So, it's fair for me to conclude that you are a christian because jesus was special in some way, and god chose to single him out by resurrecting him.

Now, believing that, what does then one DO? Is your practice of being a christian to try to do what jesus said people should do?

 

[SpartanII]

Turned off =\= offend. You haven't offended.

That's good to hear.

I really am curious about your choice to define yourself as a christian. You say you believe YOUR interpretation of the bible, but, as you've said, your interpretation seems to not exclude, say, taoism and buddhism. So again, it would seem that one would decide to call oneself a christian if the new testament EXCLUSIVELY described a scenario he thought was true. But you seem to say that the truth you find in the bible is NOT exclusive--that other religions say the same thing.

I guess the point where I would disagree is that calling oneself a christian implies an exclusive view of religion. This problem doesn't arise in Hinduism. Vedanta lays out different paths to union with God (different forms of Yoga), and Christianity fits nicely into the Bhakti yoga framework. So here is a large metaphysical framework that allows for different outward expressions of religion, without any coming into conflict. To call myself a christian is to say that I practice a particular type of Bhakti yoga, and not to say that this form of Bhakti yoga is the only path. Unfortunately, most Christians take an exclusive perspective of things, and this has led me to many long intense discussions with other Christians I respect and care about, and eventually led me to stop going to church. I hope this helps you understand my perspective better. Let me know if you have any other questions or want to discuss this further. I loathe small talk, but could have a discussion about religion or similar matters all day long.

Well...I'm not sure how the discussion can continue much further without it turning into an...argument. I personally have a difficult time with vagueness. I'm endlessly fascinated by the conundrum (which I confront daily, as an American) of people who find it vitally important to define themselves as christian, even though what they mean is something very different from what OTHERS define as christian. Many Americans, particularly, seem to have made a mantra of the word--or use it to invoke whatever they personally want it to invoke.

Your situation, however, seems to really "take the cake." Nothing you say seems AT ALL to align with anything I've heard of as "christian," so your use of the term, in particular, seems pure affectation.

Again however, let me return to, and rephrase, my original question: If use of psychedelics can further the practice of christianity, and psychedelics have been a part of the human experience for thousands of years, why do you suppose mention of psychedelics was left out of the bible? Or was it?

I agree.

It's kind of like someone saying "I'm a Nazi, but I interpret racism to mean 'fluffy kittens' and fluffy kittens are good, but unfortunately, most Nazis take an exclusive perspective of Nazism".

I just don't see why anyone would connect themselves to a religion based on fear and guilt that condones such horrible atrocities.

How can anyone ignore or put a positive spin on this kind of stuff:

"And the daughter of any priest, if she profane herself by playing the whore, she profaneth her father: she shall be burnt with fire." (Leviticus 21:9)

"Samaria shall become desolate; for she hath rebelled against her God: they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up." (Hosea 13:16)

"Every one that is found shall be thrust through; and every one that is joined unto them shall fall by the sword. Their children also shall be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses shall be spoiled, and their wives ravished." (Isaiah 13:15-16)

"If your brother, the son of your father or of your mother, or your son or daughter, or the spouse whom you embrace, or your most intimate friend, tries to secretly seduce you, saying "Let us go serve other gods," unknown to you or your ancestors before you, gods of the peoples surrounding you, whether near you or from far away, anywhere throughout the world, you must not consent, you must not spare him or conceal his guilt. No, you must kill him, your hand must strike the first blow in putting him to death and the hands of the rest of the people following. You must stone him to death, since he has tried to divert you from Yahweh your God." (Deuteronomy 13;7-11)

"If thou wilt not observe to do all the words of this law that are written in this book, then the LORD will make thy plagues wonderful, and the plagues of thy seed ... Also every sickness, and every plague, which is not written in the book of this law, them will the LORD bring upon thee, until thou be destroyed." (Deuteronomy 28;58-61)

"And we took all his cities at that time, and utterly destroyed the men, and the women, and the little ones, of every city, we left none to remain." (Deuteronomy 2:34)

"For the LORD your God, who is among you, is a jealous God and his anger will burn against you, and he will destroy you from the face of the land." (Deuteronomy 6:15)

"And when the LORD your God has delivered them over to you and you have defeated them, then you must destroy them totally. Make no treaty with them, and show them no mercy." (Deuteronomy 7:2)

"But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth."(Matthew 8;12)

"Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.And a man's foes shall be they of his own household. He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me." (Matthew 10;34-36)

-In Genesis 7:21-23, God drowns the entire population of the earth: men, women, children, fetuses, and animals.

-In Exodus 12:29, God the baby-killer slaughters all Egyptian firstborn children and cattle because their king was stubborn.

-In Numbers 16:41-49, the Israelites complain that God is killing too many of them. So, God sends a plague that kills 14,000 more of them.

-In 1 Samuel 6:19, God kills 50,000 men for peeking into the ark of the covenant.

-In Numbers 31:7-18, the Israelites kill all the Midianites except for the virgins, whom they are allowed to rape as spoils of war.

-In 2 Kings 2:23-24, some kids tease the prophet Elisha, and God sends bears to dismember them.

and last but not least...

“The entirety of Your word is truth” (Psalms 119: 160)

Yes, I'm taking these verses out of context, but what context could possible justify this kind of evil?

 

[jaskop]

Now, believing that, what does then one DO? Is your practice of being a christian to try to do what jesus said people should do?

Yes. I think he spelled out his version of ethics in the Sermon on the Mount, and that to me is a guide for living. Loving your enemy and turning the other cheek are probably some of the least practiced imperatives found in the bible, yet I think they are fundamental to a truly spiritual life. With that said, I am nowhere near perfect at loving my enemies and all that. For example,I still get frustrated when someone cuts me off while driving, but I try to let it go, even if I'm not always successful.

 

[jaskop]

I agree.

It's kind of like someone saying "I'm a Nazi, but I interpret racism to mean 'fluffy kittens' and fluffy kittens are good, but unfortunately, most Nazis take an exclusive perspective of Nazism".

The problem is that most people cannot separate chritianity from christians. If the majority of christians practice in a particular way, then everyone assumes that is what it means to be a christian. It is unfortunate, but a fact nonetheless, that many christians use the bible to justify hate and division instead of love and unity. I cannot possibly repsond to all your quotes, as this isn't the time or place. But I can respond with this quote, "Love your neighbor as yourself" and ask in return, how can anyone put a negative spin on that? Can love like this ever be a bad thing? This is what I take from the bible, and those passages mentioned earlier are mostly irrelevant in my mind. At least as it relates to how we should behave in this world towards one another.

 

[SWIMfriend]

Now, believing that, what does then one DO? Is your practice of being a christian to try to do what jesus said people should do?

Yes. I think he spelled out his version of ethics in the Sermon on the Mount, and that to me is a guide for living. Loving your enemy and turning the other cheek are probably some of the least practiced imperatives found in the bible, yet I think they are fundamental to a truly spiritual life. With that said, I am nowhere near perfect at loving my enemies and all that. For example,I still get frustrated when someone cuts me off while driving, but I try to let it go, even if I'm not always successful.

So are you saying that your purpose in taking psychedelics is to better love your enemies? What I'm getting at is that jesus didn't call for the use of psychedelics--and he surely could have if he wanted to. Why not?

He did, however, call for his followers to give away all their possessions (even their clothes) and forget all worldly interests (and even to castrate themselves, if one reads Matthew 19:12 literally). Yet, I find virtually NO christians doing those things. So I'm really PERPLEXED when people call themselves christians; and that goes doubly for christian psychonauts. Jesus was the guy to deliver the message--and his message wasn't ANYTHING LIKE the use of psychedelics (unless you'd like to show me otherwise).

BTW, I'm not really trying to challenge (or disparage) you. I'm trying to UNDERSTAND how you've chosen to define yourself--and define yourself in the context of saying that using psychedelics is an expression of your religious faith--that faith being christianity. If you believe jesus was specially glorified by god, and jesus didn't take or recommend psychedelics, then what's up?

 

[SpartanII]

The problem is that most people cannot separate chritianity from christians. If the majority of christians practice in a particular way, then everyone assumes that is what it means to be a christian. It is unfortunate, but a fact nonetheless, that many christians use the bible to justify hate and division instead of love and unity.

But I'm not quoting from Christians, I'm quoting directly from the Bible, the (supposed) Word of God.

But I can respond with this quote, "Love your neighbor as yourself" and ask in return, how can anyone put a negative spin on that? Can love like this ever be a bad thing? This is what I take from the bible, and those passages mentioned earlier are mostly irrelevant in my mind. At least as it relates to how we should behave in this world towards one another.

I like your mystic take on Christianity, but the fact is, you're declaring yourself a Christian while cherry picking the parts you like from the Bible and disregarding this:

“The entirety of Your word is truth” (Psalms 119: 160)

 

[jaskop]

So are you saying that your purpose in taking psychedelics is to better love your enemies?

That is certainly part of it. I have found that mushrooms seem to bring about a more loving state within me. I cannot explain it, but I feel at peace with myself and with others while on mushrooms, and even after the trip. It is as if the mushrooms allow me to reset to my core self, and love finds a natural avenue in that state.

What I'm getting at is that jesus didn't call for the use of psychedelics--and he surely could have if he wanted to. Why not?

Maybe he didn't think it was the path for everyone. I don't know. But I'm sure you wouldn't recommend DMT to everyone you know, even if you find it good for yourself. This is just speculation though. If psychedelics were the only way, then I would think it may have been mentioned. I also think music can serve spiritual purposes, but Jesus never spoke of music.

He did, however, call for his followers to give away all their possessions (even their clothes) and forget all worldly interests (and even to castrate themselves, if one reads Matthew 19:12 literally). Yet, I find virtually NO christians doing those things.

He may have said some things to some people, but that doesn't mean it should apply to all. He told the rich young ruler to see his possessions, because his attachment to his possessions was his main impediment. Perhaps with another person, just giving up coffee would sufficient. That's probably a bad example, but I think you get my point. I don't think all christians are meant to be naked bums walking around castrated. If the bible told me the only path to God was by being a castrated and naked bum, I would certainly question it's validity.

So I'm really PERPLEXED when people call themselves christians; and that goes doubly for christian psychonauts. Jesus was the guy to deliver the message--and his message wasn't ANYTHING LIKE the use of psychedelics (unless you'd like to show me otherwise).

I use caffeine to study my bible, it helps me concentrate, but I don't think that Jesus had to give the approval beforehand to use caffeine when reading. I find no inconsistency. Similarly with psychedelics. When I am reflecting on my life and trying to figure out what is a good path to take, sometimes I find psychedelics to help in this regard. It allows me to focus on what is important to me. So if that is God, then it allows me to focus on God. In addition, the bible says that God is love. So if mushrooms allow me to love more effectively, or alternatively, if they allow love to flow through me, then I believe this is helping me in my spiritual life grow closer to God.

BTW, I'm not really trying to challenge (or disparage) you. I'm trying to UNDERSTAND how you've chosen to define yourself--and define yourself in the context of saying that using psychedelics is an expression of your religious faith--that faith being christianity. If you believe jesus was specially glorified by god, and jesus didn't take or recommend psychedelics, then what's up?

I can only say that Jesus must not have needed psychedelics to stay focused on what's most important. But I find it helpful to be brought back along the right path every now and then, as I have a natural tendency to stray away.

 

[SWIMfriend]

So are you saying that your purpose in taking psychedelics is to better love your enemies?

That is certainly part of it. I have found that mushrooms seem to bring about a more loving state within me. I cannot explain it, but I feel at peace with myself and with others while on mushrooms, and even after the trip. It is as if the mushrooms allow me to reset to my core self, and love finds a natural avenue in that state.

All right. So, you're a christian because you believe jesus got resurrected by god, and therefore god wants to present jesus as a person who should be followed; and jesus wants you to be a good person; and psychedelics help you be a good person.

I suppose that's fair enough.

 

[jaskop]

I like your mystic take on Christianity, but the fact is, you're declaring yourself a Christian while cherry picking the parts you like from the Bible and disregarding this:

“The entirety of Your word is truth” (Psalms 119: 160)

It's not that I pick the parts I like, but I only mention and focus on those parts that I think are essential. I do not interpret the quotes you mentioned earlier as literal. I think all talk of killing and slaying of enemies should be understood in a spiritual sense, which is to say we should mercilessly kill our bad habits, addictions, sins, whatever you want to call them. So I believe it all, I just don't take it all literally. I think the stories are meant to illuminate spiritual truths and not meant to be historically accurate. Now they may have been historical events, but I consider the essence of these passages to apply to spiritual enemies so to speak. I also think it takes some creativity to not interpret the book of John as a mystical text. Many great theologians (Origen, Augustine, Luther, St. John of the Cross, etc)have taken a mystical interpretation of these texts, but nowadays many people consider christian mysticism to be a form of heresy.

 

[jaskop]

All right. So, you're a christian because you believe jesus got resurrected by god, and therefore god wants to present jesus as a person who should be followed; and jesus wants you to be a good person; and psychedelics help you be a good person.

Exactly! That is an excellent summary of my position.

 

[SWIMfriend]

All right. So, you're a christian because you believe jesus got resurrected by god, and therefore god wants to present jesus as a person who should be followed; and jesus wants you to be a good person; and psychedelics help you be a good person.

Exactly! That is an excellent summary of my position.

And...er...I can't resist adding that while all the jesus and god stuff--reports of ancient miracles, and favoring one set of miracle reports over countless others--is just something you believe because, no doubt, you were raised to believe it....psychedelics helping you be a better person is something YOU EXPERIENCED AND FIGURED OUT FOR YOURSELF.

But, hehe, that's just my snarky outlook

EDIT: And forgive me, I should have added: Welcome to the forum!

 

[tony]

I like your mystic take on Christianity, but the fact is, you're declaring yourself a Christian while cherry picking the parts you like from the Bible and disregarding this:

“The entirety of Your word is truth” (Psalms 119: 160)

It's not that I pick the parts I like, but I only mention and focus on those parts that I think are essential. I do not interpret the quotes you mentioned earlier as literal. I think all talk of killing and slaying of enemies should be understood in a spiritual sense, which is to say we should mercilessly kill our bad habits, addictions, sins, whatever you want to call them. So I believe it all, I just don't take it all literally. I think the stories are meant to illuminate spiritual truths and not meant to be historically accurate. Now they may have been historical events, but I consider the essence of these passages to apply to spiritual enemies so to speak. I also think it takes some creativity to not interpret the book of John as a mystical text. Many great theologians (Origen, Augustine, Luther, St. John of the Cross, etc)have taken a mystical interpretation of these texts, but nowadays many people consider christian mysticism to be a form of heresy.

I know conversations about religion tend to go round in circles and often become heated. I am also aware that this is your introduction thread, so I don't want to harp on about religious grievances and potentially alienate you from a great forum or make you feel like you are being bombarded about your religious beliefs as soon as you have came here. As such this will be my last post here unless you reply with a question.

So, with the pleasantries aside, lol... your post that I've quoted constitutes a perfect example of what I was referring to as "mental gymnastics". Lets take just one quote from the bible, instead of a massive list...

"If your brother, the son of your father or of your mother, or your son or daughter, or the spouse whom you embrace, or your most intimate friend, tries to secretly seduce you, saying "Let us go serve other gods," unknown to you or your ancestors before you, gods of the peoples surrounding you, whether near you or from far away, anywhere throughout the world, you must not consent, you must not spare him or conceal his guilt. No, you must kill him, your hand must strike the first blow in putting him to death and the hands of the rest of the people following. You must stone him to death, since he has tried to divert you from Yahweh your God." (Deuteronomy 13;7-11)

This, to me, is plain and simple. It is what it is. It is very clear, very direct and very specific. I do not understand for one second how someone can change this text into something spiritual and profound (feel free to elaborate on how you read this particular passage). It says, using clear and distinct language, that if someone suggests to you that you should switch to another religion you should kill them. This passage makes perfect sense if it is intended to militantly preserve the religion. Whether or not this was the intent, it was certainly the effect. Passages like these are what were used to justify all manner of atrocities, and why shouldn't they? If someone really believes the bible is the word of god and aren't quite as mentally agile as you then why would they interpret it as anything other than what it says? More importantly why couldn't god have been clearer? Why would he wish to have his name anywhere near a book full of things which, at face value, are morally bankrupt?

Sure you can find things like "do unto others" and "love thy neighbour" but to be honest, from my reading of the bible, these type of useful moral rules of thumb are outnumbered by immoral commands... and why should "love thy neighbour" be taken literally where "kill thy neighbour" is to be taken as some kind of deep spiritual truth that transcends what it actually says?

It does seem that you pick what you like and rationalize the rest, and i use the term rationalize very loosely because I have yet to see someone actually explain what it is that they see in passages like the one I've quoted. Generally blanket statements like "it's out of context" or "it's metaphorical" are used.

You mentioned "mercilessly killing sin" as a possible interpretation of certain passages. By what stretch of thinking is it a good idea to swap the word "sin" with "your neighbour if they work on a sunday" and then hope people will switch it back instead of taking it literally? How is that useful to people's spiritual advancement?

As I said I do believe some useful things can be gleaned from religions, for example "there but for the grace of god, go I" is very profound in a certain way. It has poetic value regardless of whether there actually is a god who is gracing us. To me this is saying that we should not be quick to judge others since we could easily be in their place if our luck had been different. I don't think it takes any stretch of rational thought to read it that way, since that is basically what it says. I am all for keeping these little nuggets of wisdom... but I think it is intellectually dishonest to try and convince yourself and others that the whole bible is basically the same as that. If you choose to ignore the nasty parts of the bible then that is good, but be honest that you are choosing to ignore them... don't try to justify that which is unjustifiable.

Anyway sermon over. Welcome to the nexus :lol:

 

[ntwhtyouknw]

although it does puzzle me why you feel the need to box yourself in with the label christian--especially since that is generally taken to mean something QUITE SPECIFIC--and contrary to what you're describing.

Well, I identify myself as Christian, because I do believe what I interpret the Bible to say. It would be incorrect to say I'm not a Christian. But this puts me in a box of other peoples making, and I find that difficult to deal with. I publicly labeled myself as Christian on this website in order to generate discussion on a topic I find interesting and important, and also in the small hope that there is someone else out there in the world that does not find christian beliefs to be inconsistent with psychedelic use. I suppose nobody wants to feel like they are the only one in the world that believes what they believe-many people that fit that description are just crazy.

That's a good question. This is just my personal belief, but I interpret that as not applying to the person Jesus, but the universal Christ. The first book of John identifies the Christ with the Logos, or Word of God. And then it goes on the explain that this Logos or Word, is the means responsible for creation. This to me appears to be a force acting within the universe, and not limited to a historical human being.

I just want to say I think It's great to see that your content being yourself and in your belief. You definitely have a way with words and explaining yourself, everything I hear you saying goes perfectly in accord with what I believe myself. One thing that I hate is people in many cases (not always) will be very prejudice against someone with spiritual beliefs, I often refrain from calling myself "christian" and stick to the term "spiritual" for the sake of sparing a heated discussion. The thing is there is a heavy stigma that comes along with being Christian, but like you said there is something to be distinguished apart from. It is not at all that different from how most of society views the use of Entheogens if you ask me, there is a great deal of stigma that comes along with that as well. People will see just a druggie, hippie, whatever term they decide to label one. People will see what they want to see when they are looking toward something they don't understand. So in this case, you have someone who will experience this "stigma" from both sides, while agreeing with much of what they both have to say. I feel this way a lot, I can often feel at home around a "Christian" household until it comes to the my Entheogenic beliefs. Then vice versa with a group of even spiritual Entheogen enthusiast I find it best not to start quoting scripture. I have however been lucky enough to make quite a few friends with similar beliefs that I stick close to and I am always thrilled to see someone who can refrain from being caught up in all the strife of it, and take a step back to see the forest for the trees.

You are definitely not the only one, Much love and respect friend.