A Dialogue About Healthy Dialogue Here in the Nexus

[Ajqij]

With any social media engagement, it helps to assess the audience and come up with content that they might like. It takes trial and error, I've put hours into posts that got no response. My most popular posts are open ended and popular topics or semi controversial, then I play the role of facilitator in the comments. Super niche topics get less engagement or people who don't agree. This forum is extremely left-brained the and rigor of the discourse is high. Also for some reason trolls flock here so it takes a while to feel new people out.

Thanks for this Jungle. I hear you, and yes . . . trial and error. I'm trialing and erroring some . . . but I'm deeply committed to conveying what I've learned from those who've administered plant medicine for eons, so I'll take the heat without complaining. But I won't take it laying down or by subordinating to someone's biases, especially if they have no experience with the reality I'm pointing to. I don't think I'm right and I don't even think the Elders who I'm referring to are right. I do, however, totally believe they've earned the title of "experts," and I will not back away from that assertion regardless of the heat I get.

And popularity might be important to some, I personally could care less about it because I've learned that what is popular isn't what is profound. And "left brained" here, uh . . . yes, I'm learning that, and while it's only half a brain, it's a start, so I will continue to be patient and do all I can to help call forth the other half. I also want to say that there is part of me that totally gets where they are coming from and why, as there are lots of crackpots pushing new age BS that has absolutely no foundations in reality . . . I'm just not one of them. Cheers and good to converse with you.

 

[Here&Now]

Well, I'm not a new psychonaught that's for darned sure. I've conducted expeditions to sacred sites from Peru to Northern Mexico and spent years living with and communing with the Maya and the Curanderos and Elders there. I've been priviledged to be mentored by them not only on the ways of sacred ceremony, but the ancient Tzolkin calendars they still use today to prepare travelers for how to engage in the terrain between the finite and the infinite. Apparently that is not considered to be "critical thinking" here and based on flawed mental framing by senior members. I'm not being combative, I'm simply standing firm about the deep reverence and respect I have for the masters of the plants who've shown me what few people in modern society can even imagine. (Imagine if you will that there is a way to access the profound wisdom we experience during breakthrough in our everyday lives.) Impossible? Assumptive? I think not. Controversial and requiring exploration? Absolutely.

Pretty badass. Do you have any training in the use of sapo/bufo/5-MeO-DMT? Any other medicines?

If it's a question of these states being accessible without even necessarily needing to use psychedelics, I myself would fall pretty heavily into the "yes" camp.

 

[Ajqij]

Pretty badass. Do you have any training in the use of sapo/bufo/5-MeO-DMT? Any other medicines?

If it's a question of these states being accessible without even necessarily needing to use psychedelics, I myself would fall pretty heavily into the "yes" camp.

Got about 40 years under my belt, (20 before heading south of the border and 20 while there). Extensive experience with LSD, Mescaline, MDA, MDMA, Psycilocibin, Peytote, San Perdo Cactus, nn,MDT, Ayauasca, Datura, Mimosa, Yopo, etc., And yep, I do have training practices and have shared them with many people who I've taken on expeditions to the ruins in the Yucatan and other countries. I have no experience with 5-MeO because my mentors and shaman friends have advised that any medicine that does not leave a thread of identity has no pathway back into waking consciousness. And without a link there is not way to intergate the experience or develop higher consciousness as a result of it. This doesn't mean it's not useful to "Be God," it just means that its kind of a one-off trip. And yes, there are ways to transfer the insights and wisdom we are shown during medicine journeys and I've outlined what is called "Toltec-Tek" I gleaned while spending time with decendents of the Toltec Empire North of Mexico City. I posted a traininm guide in one of the forums so feel free to check it out and let me know what results you produce. Cheers!

 

[fink]

Classic example of quote wars forming now. There is not enough time between 1000 word responses to think about what each person is saying

 

[Here&Now]

Got about 40 years under my belt, (20 before heading south of the border and 20 while there). Extensive experience with LSD, Mescaline, MDA, MDMA, Psycilocibin, Peytote, San Perdo Cactus, nn,MDT, Ayauasca, Datura, Mimosa, Yopo, etc., And yep, I do have training practices and have shared them with many people who I've taken on expeditions to the ruins in the Yucatan and other countries. I have no experience with 5-MeO because my mentors and shaman friends have advised that any medicine that does not leave a thread of identity has no pathway back into waking consciousness. And without a link there is not way to intergate the experience or develop higher consciousness as a result of it. This doesn't mean it's not useful to "Be God," it just means that its kind of a one-off trip. And yes, there are ways to transfer the insights and wisdom we are shown during medicine journeys and I've outlined what is called "Toltec-Tek" I gleaned while spending time with decendents of the Toltec Empire North of Mexico City. I posted a traininm guide in one of the forums so feel free to check it out and let me know what results you produce. Cheers!

Very interesting, I found your thread about the Toltec-Tek and I'll give it a closer look. I love that methods like this have been devised.

In regards to 5-MeO-DMT, I think it certainly makes sense for shamans to be cautious due to it lacking a known lineage, but perhaps there could be another way to look at it. There was a time when every one of these medicines was still unexplored, and it was up to some courageous individual to map out the territory, gain mastery, and connect it to humanity. If someone hadn't taken the plunge and done it with these other medicines, then we'd end up applying the same caution and non-use to all of them as well.

If you do get the opportunity to try it and its use is permitted by your tradition, I'd recommend it in the strongest terms possible. I've tried practically every psychedelic as well in over 20+ years, and for me, there's nothing quite like it in terms of being able to cause true change in my life.

 

[Ajqij]

Very interesting, I found your thread about the Toltec-Tek and I'll give it a closer look. I love that methods like this have been devised.

In regards to 5-MeO-DMT, I think it certainly makes sense for shamans to be cautious due to it lacking a known lineage, but perhaps there could be another way to look at it. There was a time when every one of these medicines was still unexplored, and it was up to some courageous individual to map out the territory, gain mastery, and connect it to humanity. If someone hadn't taken the plunge and done it with these other medicines, then we'd end up applying the same caution and non-use to all of them as well.

If you do get the opportunity to try it and its use is permitted by your tradition, I'd recommend it in the strongest terms possible. I've tried practically every psychedelic as well in over 20+ years, and for me, there's nothing quite like it in terms of being able to cause true change in my life.

Ok, thank you Here! I believe you have opened my eyes to a possibility I had kept at arms length. It's frowed upon by most Curanderos, but it may be for the very reasons you suggest. (Might need a sitter for it tho, given its effects.) It couldn't hurt to try it for myself as nothing I've ingested has killed my spirit yet. Hey, isn't that a very old, very cool song?

 

[Here&Now]

Ok, thank you Here! I believe you have opened my eyes to a possibility I had kept at arms length. It's frowed upon by most Curanderos, but it may be for the very reasons you suggest. (Might need a sitter for it tho, given its effects.) It couldn't hurt to try it for myself as nothing I've ingested has killed my spirit yet. Hey, isn't that a very old, very cool song?

For sure, no problem. Low and medium doses are always an option as well. For me, they caused a kind of clearing that made the eventual larger doses easier to relax and dissolve into. And for low/medium doses, a sitter isn't really needed at all. Definitely not a bad idea to have one for a large dose though. Some people react unpredictably.

 

[Ajqij]

For sure, no problem. Low and medium doses are always an option as well. For me, they caused a kind of clearing that made the eventual larger doses easier to relax and dissolve into. And for low/medium doses, a sitter isn't really needed at all. Definitely not a bad idea to have one for a large dose though. Some people react unpredictably.

Well . . . I know just the "Priestess" who can provide me with the 5Me and the sitter. I'll try the "lets get aqcainted before we slip into something more . . . UNREAL." LOL

 

[NeitherHere]

there's a balance in life.

none of us are perfect, we are all human (I hope)

from time to time we will be unkind, unjust, rude, maybe even a little evil.

sometimes we don't see eye to eye. maybe we disagree on a topic or just aren't very compatible with each other personalities.

again, none of us are perfect.

it's not a matter of what did we just say to each other that we resent, it's a matter of coming back and saying "hey, I'm sorry I was being rude earlier. I disagree with you because in MY experience (...)"

its a matter of making a healthy dialogue about the situation after the fact.

in my opinion a little discord is totally healthy and normal even within the nexus. are there nexians I'm not entirely fond of? absolutely. that doesn't mean I don't want them to eat, I just would rather they didn't eat at my table. to be clear those nexians are very few and far between and really it's not a matter of me being fond of them at all. one for example is a very interesting character that I'm constantly and embarassingly in awe of but the member annoys the living hell out of me lol its not that I'm not fond of this person I just have a thresh hold for certain behaviours they participate in and they exceed that thresh hold regularly.


so, think of it this way if you would. the nexus is a reef. around this reef swim the nexians. among us are small fish, large fish, predators, and so on. it's an ecosystem.

that ecosystem wouldn't be what it is if we all got along 100% all of the time. some times we benefit from that one person being coarse. I don't like it myself, I'd rather we all get along but sometimes old thoughts have to evolve and they only do that by being challenged.

years back Alan Rockefeller said something pretty rude that set me off. i mean it was RUDE and directly at me. i mulled over that statement for quite some time and realized. "he's right.... he's totally right".

I love a good analytical debate with someone that doesn't see things the way I do because sometimes I'm so stuck in my beliefs that I fail to realize that there's 2 ways to look through the same window.

NeitherHere

 

[Varallo]

there's a balance in life.

none of us are perfect, we are all human (I hope)

from time to time we will be unkind, unjust, rude, maybe even a little evil.

sometimes we don't see eye to eye. maybe we disagree on a topic or just aren't very compatible with each other personalities.

again, none of us are perfect.

it's not a matter of what did we just say to each other that we resent, it's a matter of coming back and saying "hey, I'm sorry I was being rude earlier. I disagree with you because in MY experience (...)"

its a matter of making a healthy dialogue about the situation after the fact.

in my opinion a little discord is totally healthy and normal even within the nexus. are there nexians I'm not entirely fond of? absolutely. that doesn't mean I don't want them to eat, I just would rather they didn't eat at my table. to be clear those nexians are very few and far between and really it's not a matter of me being fond of them at all. one for example is a very interesting character that I'm constantly and embarassingly in awe of but the member annoys the living hell out of me lol its not that I'm not fond of this person I just have a thresh hold for certain behaviours they participate in and they exceed that thresh hold regularly.


so, think of it this way if you would. the nexus is a reef. around this reef swim the nexians. among us are small fish, large fish, predators, and so on. it's an ecosystem.

that ecosystem wouldn't be what it is if we all got along 100% all of the time. some times we benefit from that one person being coarse. I don't like it myself, I'd rather we all get along but sometimes old thoughts have to evolve and they only do that by being challenged.

years back Alan Rockefeller said something pretty rude that set me off. i mean it was RUDE and directly at me. i mulled over that statement for quite some time and realized. "he's right.... he's totally right".

I love a good analytical debate with someone that doesn't see things the way I do because sometimes I'm so stuck in my beliefs that I fail to realize that there's 2 ways to look through the same window.

NeitherHere

Thanks for this post, it’s a good reminder that conflicting dialogue doesn’t have to be a breakdown, and I agree, a little friction is part of what keeps dialogue alive and evolving.
That’s really all I’ve been hoping for in these threads, not agreement, just a willingness to participate and grow when things get interesting, instead of disappearing or reframing every challenge of ideas as a personal attack.

I do however think there is a difference whether someone’s open to that kind of self-reflection, or using obfuscating language and “spiritual” authority to avoid it. Not everyone’s here for honest dialogue, and that’s where things get difficult. But your analogy of the reef is really good, it works because it’s diverse, not because everyone swims the same way.

Take care

 

[Ajqij]

there's a balance in life.

none of us are perfect, we are all human (I hope)

from time to time we will be unkind, unjust, rude, maybe even a little evil.

sometimes we don't see eye to eye. maybe we disagree on a topic or just aren't very compatible with each other personalities.

again, none of us are perfect.

it's not a matter of what did we just say to each other that we resent, it's a matter of coming back and saying "hey, I'm sorry I was being rude earlier. I disagree with you because in MY experience (...)"

its a matter of making a healthy dialogue about the situation after the fact.

in my opinion a little discord is totally healthy and normal even within the nexus. are there nexians I'm not entirely fond of? absolutely. that doesn't mean I don't want them to eat, I just would rather they didn't eat at my table. to be clear those nexians are very few and far between and really it's not a matter of me being fond of them at all. one for example is a very interesting character that I'm constantly and embarassingly in awe of but the member annoys the living hell out of me lol its not that I'm not fond of this person I just have a thresh hold for certain behaviours they participate in and they exceed that thresh hold regularly.


so, think of it this way if you would. the nexus is a reef. around this reef swim the nexians. among us are small fish, large fish, predators, and so on. it's an ecosystem.

that ecosystem wouldn't be what it is if we all got along 100% all of the time. some times we benefit from that one person being coarse. I don't like it myself, I'd rather we all get along but sometimes old thoughts have to evolve and they only do that by being challenged.

years back Alan Rockefeller said something pretty rude that set me off. i mean it was RUDE and directly at me. i mulled over that statement for quite some time and realized. "he's right.... he's totally right".

I love a good analytical debate with someone that doesn't see things the way I do because sometimes I'm so stuck in my beliefs that I fail to realize that there's 2 ways to look through the same window.

NeitherHere

 

[Ajqij]

Very much appreciate your perspective NeitherHere, and love the reef analogy. To share my perspective about “healthy dialogue,” now that several members have expressed their opinions about it, I’d like to expand upon your analogy if I may. (Much more fun than trying to explain, defend, or lecture about dialogue.)



While there are all kinds of sea creatures with diverse traits, histories, attitudes, and intentions, what we all have in common is the water. The Nexus is the reef and DMT is the water. As in all life-sustaining environments, there are hierarchies at play around the living reefs. It’s not a bad thing, it’s an evolutionary necessity, given that perhaps the greatest paradox in the universe is that in order for life to live and sustain itself, it must kill and eat itself. (The “Ouroboros” dragon that eats its tail.)



We all consume life, and one day life in turn will consume us . . . It’s the cosmic way to be both predator and prey. I came to this reef to share my experiences about the deep ocean encounters I’ve had with shamans, elders, and curanderos in Central and South America. As a “new fish” here, I’ve been welcomed, ridiculed, grilled, and dismissed, and honestly, I wouldn’t have it any other way, because I trust the ways of the Ouroboros to prevail.

What I have to bring to this reef is profoundly valuable, not because it’s “the truth,” or because I “know the way,” but because what I’ve witnessed over the last 20 years provides insight into what dwells deep within the “Mariana trench” of curandero-guided medicine journeys, a deep sea adventure that few who hang out around the reef ever get to experience first fin-hand.



As for getting grilled and eaten by some of the “senior fish” here, I say so be it. I’m not attached to the learning, sharing, and expanding going down the way I think it ought to, or that I need to be the one who instigates it. Why? Because the power of what I have to share here in the Nexus (because of my experiences with the elders and healers) lives within my cellular nature, just as the medicine of DMT lives within the cellular structure of plants. Whether I’m taken seriously or not, smoked, snorted, grilled, or eaten alive doesn’t matter to me, (just don’t insert me into your rectum), because in all instances, whether you resonate with what I have to share or not, the medicine you consume will eventually teach you what I’m passing along to you from the timelss keepers of sacred plants.

There are two key aspects of “healthy dialogue" I want to offer, two “framings” if you like that I feel are needed to ensure “sharing, learning, expanding.” One is “Critical Thinking” and the other is “Convergent Knowing.” For those interested in the latter, I will create a new post and share about it. I welcome your take on what I’ve shared here and will strive to remain as humble and open as I can. I don’t always do a good job at it, but even an old fish can expand with the help of some fishy friends. In Lak'ech