We do. We talk regularly about it. This seems to be a real issue for you, given your last sentence.
We can speculate all day, but that gets us nowhere. What do you personally need right now?
One love
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A Dialogue About Healthy Dialogue Here in the Nexus
- Thread starter Ajqij
- Start date
We can speculate all day, but that gets us nowhere. What do you personally need right now?
One love
Thanks for your reply. I'll just watch to see how interactions unfold and if I feel like I'm being talked down to or dealt with unfairly I'll bring it up just as I have so far. I will also do all I can to encourge positive and engaging dialogue that forwards what this site espouses. And like I said critical thinking is a good thing as long as it's employed with responsible and timely dialogue.
Yeah, please definitely feel free to let me know if you feel that from me. It's never something that is meant to have an elitist vibe, it's really just a way of looking out for others and their feelings in order to keep a peaceful and cohesive community.
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One love
There is a lot of good stuff in this thread, and at the same time there is something that I find a bit confusing, you seem to be refering to a particular individual or event:
"What I do feel isn’t “healthy” is to have someone drop in, question everything that gets posted, and then drop out without being willing to engage and reach a place of mutual contribution."
And sounds like you feel talked down and dimished, grilled publicly, negated and ghosted.
Is that right?
Btw, welcome back @fink
"What I do feel isn’t “healthy” is to have someone drop in, question everything that gets posted, and then drop out without being willing to engage and reach a place of mutual contribution."
And sounds like you feel talked down and dimished, grilled publicly, negated and ghosted.
Is that right?
Btw, welcome back @fink
V, I find you to be humble and objective, and attentive to the timing required to encourage supportive dialogue and cohesion within the community. I'm not here to call people out or to make enemies. My posts, as you have seen, are positive in nature without claiminmg any "truths." Also, I don't "poke holes" or accuse people of making erroneous assumption without, A) making sure to respond to their push-backs or questions in a timely manner, (especially if I've grilled someone publically about the validity of their framing), and, B) If a member asks me to join them in examining my own framing, rather than accusing them of having a personality flaw or impatient ego need, I would express gratitude for being invited onto the grill. And if my timing is slower than theirs, I would at least take the time to acknowledge that their push-backs have been well recieved and will be addressed soon. Just common courtesy and mature interpersonal skills V.
And yeah, I do feel an elitist vibe here about the subject of DMT. Science doesn't have a corner on what such substances are, how they work, or what the nature of the experiences psychonaught report are. If people who claim to be critical thinkers truly want to promote what is authentic about psychotric compounds, rather than falling back on science, or the hubris of their own minds, they ought to go spend time with the elders in Central America who are the true "experts." Having spent twenty years communing with curanderos and villagers in many southern regions, I can say with a fairly clear "framing" that the plants are carriers of the infinite intent of the ancestors, and that the ancestors originate within the majesty of the cosmos, and that those who wish to gain insight into what the infinite has to offer the finite need to leave their minds and their "critical thinking" at the door and enter the ceremonial hut with an open humble heart.
The first statement is incompatible with the vibe of the second. No one is more true an expert than anyone else... We have to drop that. We're all free to explore these medicines. Appealing to the indigenous in this way is a slippery slope towards gate-keeping, that is no better than the domination of the "church" over the past several hundred years. It's about the attitude, not the people with said attitude, for anyone can express it.
It happens. We're not doing it on purpose. It comes from many of us having so many experiences, and the types of thinkers we happen to be. Not everyone is the same, and some people find this place to be more apt for them than others by virtue of the type of dialogue, interaction, depth of thought, etc. We can apply whatever terms we want to what I'm dancing around, but at the end of the day, no one is better than anyone else
One love
Shade, thanks for chiming in! There's a definite vibe of elitism here, which is not uncommon as it exists everywhere in the world. The ongoing debate between science and spirituality is, I suspect at the core of it rather than it being anyone's personal issue. I walk the edge between science and spirit and tend to take heat from both sides. Been at it for years and am a well-grilled psychonaught.
Having spent 20 years in Central and South America I have a deep and profound reverence and respect for the elders, their ways, and for their insistence that neither science nor spirituality can capture the essence of Ceremonia de Medicina Sagrada or Curanderismos. Answer your Q?
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> . If people who claim to be critical thinkers truly want to promote what is authentic about psychotric compounds, rather than falling back on science, or the hubris of their own minds, they ought to go spend time with the elders in Central America who are the true "experts."
"Yeah? Well, you know, that's just like uh, your opinion, man."
"Yeah? Well, you know, that's just like uh, your opinion, man."
Thanks for this V, I will take that as a well-intended point and one worth exploring within . . . and is it possible that you have just asserted expertise yourself about the nature of experise? (These kinds of inner folds are essential in my experience if we are to engage in healthy dialogue.) Would you be open to the possibility that there are indeed gatekeepers who are more qualified to share about the origins of psychotropic plants, their effects, and their intended purposes, given these elders have communed and worked with psychoactive plants for eons? And who said anything about "better" people here? Where was that introjected into our dialogue?The first statement is incompatible with the vibe of the second. No one is more true an expert than anyone else... We have to drop that. We're all free to explore these medicines. Appealing to the indigenous in this way is a slippery slope towards gate-keeping, that is no better than the domination of the "church" over the past several hundred years. It's about the attitude, not the people with said attitude, for anyone can express it.
It happens. We're not doing it on purpose. It comes from many of us having so many experiences, and the types of thinkers we happen to be. Not everyone is the same, and some people find this place to be more apt for them than others by virtue of the type of dialogue, interaction, depth of thought, etc. We can apply whatever terms we want to what I'm dancing around, but at the end of the day, no one is better than anyone else
One love
No worries and totally agree Exit . . . but isn't that what this site encourages? The learning, sharing, and expansion of our opinions?
If one wants to interpret my statement as such, then okay, I'm indifferent, as I'm aware that wasn't my intention. I was more plainly addressing the idea of someone being more "true" an expert than someone else. That's something we can't verify. It's something we take on conviction.
More qualified? By what standard? And time isn't a standard. Something can be done wrong, poorly, erroneously, with poor interpretation, etc for long periods of time. Saying something has more qualification than something else because of how long it has been around is in appeal to antiquity.
What is intended by the molecules and plants? Another slippery slope that's hard to come to a consensus on because it's hard to find a standard for verification.
In some ways, you're asserting that some traditions and practices are better than others by proxy of the people that practice them. I'm heading you off.
One love
Nothing can be verified, I totally agree V. I also want to return to something key here . . . I'm not saying science is wrong, or that we should not critially think about things. I also do not believe the Curanderos have a corner on DMT truth. What I said was that they are experts in the experience of conducting ceremonies and guiding people in their journeys into the beyond. Being an expert does not automatically condone truth, it simply means that respect and reflection, rather than reaction should be considered.
I'm going to stay with this even if people attack my position . . . which is starting to happen BTW. I have not been disrespectful in any way to anyone and I have not claimed I'm better than anyone, or that I know the "truth." When people post icons of laughing when condescendsing comments are made, it reveals their jaded nature. Let's watch and see how this roles. And I for one am going to continue to encourage positive constructive dialogue here. And why do you need to "head me off?" Why would you not encourage me to consider your points and share with me that you will do the same? Do you have an agenda for the "culture" of this site? If differing opinions are headed off wouldn't that be contrary to "Learn, Share, Expand?"
So, we came to a consensus a while ago. What are we talking about now? What is the purpose of the current dance. I'm not going to get into an argument.
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One love
No need to reduce our dialogue to an argument V. Yes, we had a consensus to agree to disagree, and I honor that. But did you not, however, just ask questions of me ? "More qualified? By what standard?" Perhaps you don't want to learn what my responses might be to your questions? When someone poses questions and then answers them before hearing how they might be addressed, it doesn't, in my estimation indicate that they were authentic questions, But hey, if you don't want to engage with a willingness to learn as well as to inform that's totally your call and I will respect it.
Alev-Kev
Just a consciousness walking around in a meatsak
You seem to read too much into things that don't contextually match up. Idk what SPECIFIC INCIDENT inspired this thread, but as an old head who has contributed here and the old nexus for years, there are those With Knowledge and those who Seek Knowledge. Some people believe they are more knowledgeable than they are and aren't easily corrected. Science and spirituality aren't opposed, here, as far as I can see. Everybody has the right to experiment with their consciousness and this forum is a welcoming and informative platform that's purpose is to Make That Experience Navigatable and provide support. Idk what happened, but I dont SEE what you're seeing. Just my $.02
Things didn't really need to keep going after post #22 or so...
One love
One love
Alev, thanks for your observations. What we each "read into life" is our own sacred process and I do not believe it ought to be reduced to "matching up," with someone elses notions, or maybe I missed something in your opening greeting? What would be a case for correctly matching up? I'm genuinely curious. And if you're interested in how this thread started the text is quite public around it, or I would be happy to share in private chat.
I have a great deal of love and respect for people who are willing to explore beyond the confines of the status quo and value you and everyone else here who wants to learn, share, and expand. I don't think I know the truth about anything, but I do believe we should all have the right to question the truths we've both been taught or even acquired based on our own experiences. While it is a bit uncomfortable, I feel that if we stay engaged in positive dialogue we can all learn something new . . . which to me is the whole point. Cheers and blessings . . . and thanks for taking an interest in this thread.
Alev-Kev
Just a consciousness walking around in a meatsak
Deuces, bro... I'm out
I was responding to Ajgij's last post to me. Apologies if you thought that was directed at you. It wasn't at all.
One love