A DMT containing cactus in Arizona?

[dreamer042]

Echinocereus triglochidiatus var. arizonicus

I stumbled across this reference:

At present, known and suspected mortality and deleterious factors operating upon the population include: 1) illegal removal by humans (for horticultural practices, illegal export or sale, or the belief that E. t. var. arizonicus is a source of the hallucinogen dimethyltryptamine (Crosswhite 1992)

http://www.fws.gov/southwest/es/Arizona/Documents/Biol_Opin/01189_Pleasant_Valley.pdf

The reference for it is apparently unpublished.

Crosswhite, M. 1992. Ecology of the Arizona hedgehog cactus. Unpublished manuscript
prepared for Cedar Creek Associates, Inc. July 1992. 16 pp.

That's all I could find on it. Just figured I'd share what I came across.

Any further information anyone may have would be greatly appreciated.

 

[alert]

I just looked up some other literature regarding the cacti and I was unable to find anyone who did a test for alkaloid content.

Also, I don't see why DMT would cause "mortality and deleterious factors". The cactus theoretically wouldn't be orally active unless it also contained some type of MAOI.

Someone with the means should procure a sample and do a TLC or similar test on it. Personally, I find it quite doubtful that the cacti contains DMT. I think if Crosswhite had any actual proof that this cacti contained DMT in any sort of worthwhile or even detectable amount he would of published his results.

Not to mention the native Americans have been working with various cacti for centuries I think if this particular cactus has any psychedelic activity we would have heard of it by now- but I could also be completely wrong.

 

[nicechrisman]

Interesting. Thanks for sharing. I'm skeptical, but still find it interesting.

 

[dreamer042]

Yeah it's def something to remain skeptical about, though it is worthy of running a TLC on a sample for sure.

Regarding the "mortality and deleterious factors" that is referring to the cacti itself and the fact that it is being killed off, the document goes on to list a few other factors besides humans that are detrimental to the cactus population. It seems Crosswhite doesn't have any evidence and is skeptical of the content himself, but mentions this in reference to humans harvesting the cactus based on rumors of DMT content.

Moral of the story, we need to *sustainably* harvest a small amount and run a TLC to see what's good.

 

[jbark]

Sounds to me like some bureaucrat got his wires crossed and ignorantly substituted one schedule 1 substance for another, writing dimethyltryptamine instead of mescaline...

 

[Keeper Trout]

Yeah, that is a screwy misread.
The history of this (with references) can be found in my book Cactus Chemistry By Species that is posted online.

To summarize:
Initially TLC by Ferrigni suggested unidentified indoles that were suspected to be 5-MeO-DMT. This was mentioned to Robert Bye who included it in his account on Tarahumar plants.
Schultes & Hofmann picked it up and printed it in Botany & Chemistry of the Hallucinogens. And it was then retold by Ott and many different authors & databases.
Somewhere in those retellings 5-MeO-DMT got inexplicably turned into DMT.
Back to Ferrigni: In their analysis they established that it was not a tryptamine but the imidazole N,N-dimethylhistamine.
I suspect the extrapolation to var. arizonica was done by someone later but almost all of Ferrigni's E. triglochidiatus have turned out to be E. coccineus rather than triglochidiatus so there was a peculiar density of errors in this tale.

 

[Keeper Trout]

This quote from Ferrigni's paper on Echinocereus triglochidiatus might shed light on why this notion still persists (the presence of indoles was never clearly ruled out or resolved) and on why whatever they observed in TLC with Ehrlichs reagent to visualize is unlikely to have been 5-MeO-DMT or DMT (both are stable molecules that they would have been recovered but it is a good point their approach to separations is not a great one and might well have lost them their indoles) and why it would not have been very significant if they were there (small concentrations aren't typically indicative of something useful):

"[...] our attempts to identify the apparent
indole alkaloids (Bye, 1979; Schultes and Hofmann, 1979, 1980) in E.
triglochidiatus are continuing but the indole compounds are quite unstable
to our separation techniques and are present in only small concentrations."

Ferrigni et al. (1982) Journal of Ethnopharmacology, 5: 359-364. "CACTUS ALKALOIDS. XLVIII. Nα, Nα-DIMETHYLHISTAMINE, A HYPOTENSIVE COMPONENT OF ECHINOCEREUS TRIGLOCHIDIATUS"

 

[starway6]

Not shure about a DMT containing plant but in Arizona there is a common toad that secreats DMT..
Also there is a common cactus that is suposed to be phycoactive...

read below.......



Daniel Vitalis
ReWild YourselfCategories
Audio Podcasts Current Projects Featured Videos From the Road Interviews Wild Food & Water Written Word Pages
About DanielContactDaniel Vitalis BioCurrent & Upcoming Events ~ 2013Find a Spring ProjectSubscribe
Subscribe to contentSubscribe to commentsContact
How to Contact DanielEver Tried This PsychoActive Cactus?
So, I was hesitant to leak this news…. but I just couldn’t hold it in any longer!

Yes, its true… the Arizona State Flower grows atop a Psychedelic Cactus!
This is one of those interesting Herbal Secrets that has been, all along, hidden right under our noses! When I was first told about this I could hardly believe it. The very Symbol of the Desert is a Mind Altering Herb! Its called Carnegia Gigantea, also known as the Saguaro Cactus (that G is pronounced like a W).

For years I have been getting to know this Cactus which is often referred to as a Desert Tree. Its Fruits, which ripen in late June and early July are perhaps the most delicious of any flowering plant on Earth! They have traditionally been an important nutrient source for the Tohono O’ Odham (and many other) peoples of the Sonoran Desert, who would use these fruits for food, jams, and jellies, as well as ferment them for 2-4 days to create a fruit wine that was Inextricably Linked to their cultural LifeWays.

Many of my Friends today, in the Desert South-West, harvest this fruit (beginning at dawn and finishing before the heat of the day) in the early Summer with long pruning poles, and dry into a fruit leather that is a delicacy like no other.

For the last few years I have been using the Cactus Flesh as a “NooTropic” herb, and though information on these properties are scarce, I have found the psychoactive alkaloids referenced as ”Gigantine”, “Carnegine”,and “Arizonine”.

I want to be clear here, I am Not Recommending that you harvest Saguaro for this use. It is protected and considered an endangered species. Damaging the plant in anyway is considered unlawful. Be wise and cautious. This species is ancient, and these Desert Trees deserve our uptmost Respect… Tread Lightly!



However… here is what I have discovered. The inner bark is a Dark Green, and very bitter due to the concentration of Alkaloids it contains. I have found that it makes a great beverage when blended with Spring Water, Lime Juice, Agave, Aloe Vera, and Salt, and a pinch of Cayanne. The dose that I began with was around a Tablespoon of inner bark per person.

No amount of sweetening can really mask the bitterness of the Saguaro, but then again, would you really want to? Like the Peyote and San Pedro Cactuses, the bitterness is inherent and an indicator of its Alkaloid Content… in other words, potency.

My Personal Experiences were like waves of Visionary and Kinesthetic Alteration, a bit like Walking on the Moon. There is a Dreamy Quality, like the space between wakefulness and dreams.

A distinct sense of the Intelligence and Ancient Wisdom of the Desert Eco-Range is imparted from the Alkaloids to the Consumer. The Modulation of Time-Space feels a bit more appropriate to this Barren Desert LandScape than does the “Normal Waking State”, though the accompanying nausea makes frequent or habitual use less than Exciting!

The Relationship and Bond that Consuming this Forbidden Food has forged betwixt myself and this Tree will last a Lifetime. It is just one of the Numerous Medicines that this Plant (and Planet) offers Us. I present this with Humble Gratitude to a Species who has Mastered Life in one of the Harshest Climates on Earth!

Viva Saguaro!

~Daniel

This entry was posted on Monday, December 28th, 2009 at 2:30 pm and is filed under From the Road. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can leave a response, or trackback from your own site.

←→Social Links
Let's Connect!


Get Free Health and Lifestyle ReWilding Tips!

My Elements
About DanielContactDaniel Vitalis BioCurrent & Upcoming Events ~ 2013Find a Spring ProjectShop Now
My Instagram
The Best Skin Care Products

Featured Video
I Recommend
The Survivors Club: The Secrets and Science that Could Save Yo…
Ben Sherwood (Pa…
The Unthinkable: Who Survives When Disaster Strikes - and …
Amanda Ripley (P…
StrengthsFinder 2.0
Tom Rath (Hardco…
Emergency: This Book Will Save Your Life
Neil Strauss (Pap…
12>
Get WidgetPrivacySubscribe to My Blog!
Archived Posts
Select Month November 2013 October 2013 September 2013 August 2013 July 2013 June 2013 May 2013 April 2013 March 2013 January 2013 December 2012 November 2012 October 2012 September 2012 August 2012 July 2012 June 2012 April 2012 March 2012 February 2012 January 2012 December 2011 October 2011 August 2011 July 2011 May 2011 April 2011 March 2011 February 2011 January 2011 December 2010 November 2010 October 2010 September 2010 August 2010 July 2010 June 2010 May 2010 March 2010 February 2010 January 2010 December 2009 November 2009 October 2009
Tags
arthur Haines daniel vitalis david wolfe detoxification Elements fermentation foraging harvesting health health food Herbalism herbal medicine holistic longevity now conference natural health nutrition Obstacle course Obstacle course ideas Obstacle courses obstacle course training Obstacles obstacle training Plant Medicine primitive skills rawfood rewild rewilding rewild the planet rewild yourself spring water superfood Surthrival tough mudder tough mudder obstacles tough mudder workout training for an obstacle course vibram vibram five-fingers vibram five finger vibram five finger shoes vibram five fingers shoes vibrams wellness wild food wild medicine.

 

[Keeper Trout]

Check out Vitalis' youtube video on the topic of saguaro (its worth reading the comments posted from some people who tried it)
I especially loved the part in the *online video* when he says something like "Shhh! We're trying to keep this kinda quiet."

It, on the surface, looks like the picture around Pachycereus pringlei where it seems to do something for people but very few appear to be willing to repeat it. I have never tried it so don't really know quite what to think yet. Lemmo brought this up in a HIgh Times article a long time ago and it does not seem to have attracted many fans.
Please keep me posted if you hear more.

 

[dreamer042]

Thanks KT for setting the record straight on that. I knew there had to be some more info out there on this cactus. :thumb_up:

The saguaro is definitely an interesting cactus. Do we have any information on what the active alkaloids in that one are?

 

[adam]

It appears that the active psychoactive alkaloid in Saguaro is referenced as gigantine, but there is almost no information that I can find about it, at least nothing very credible. Also the same alkaloid has also been called arizonine in other places. Maybe someone else will have better luck finding info on this.

 

[wearepeople]

The saguaro is definitely an interesting cactus. Do we have any information on what the active alkaloids in that one are?

Not sure which are active:

3-Methoxytyramine
3,4-Dimethoxyphenethylamine
Dopamine
Arizonine
Carnegine
Gigantine (5-Hydroxycarnegine)
Salsolidine (Norcarnegine)
Dehydrosalsolidine
Heliamine
Dehydroheliamine
Glucaric acid
Isocitric acid
Quinic acid

Michael S. Smith

Sacred and Medicinal Cacti: Peyote, San Pedro and other Ethnopharma

 

[dreamer042]

Thanks! That's what I looking for. :thumb_up:

 

[Keeper Trout]

There is a book that might be helpful.
http://www.largelyaccurateinformationmedia.com/C13.html has some information about the compounds that Michael listed. But it lacks good answers on the obvious questions.