I wouldn't worry about all of that. Your contributions are very much welcome here 
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A new level of harmala purity with this extraction
- Thread starter whiterasta
- Start date
Most definitely, I'm personally surprised that I always hear people talking about manske, and almost never hear any mention of this method, which I personally love.whiterasta said:
Ja ja, I second that...thanks for the teksoulfood said:I wouldn't worry about all of that. Your contributions are very much welcome here
whiterasta
Rising Star
Just getting old and crotchety:wink:
I have done this tek with both ammonia and NaOH, they both work, I dunno about sodium carbonate, i'd assume so. Ammonia works great though, I see no reason to substitute, unless you don't have any...
SnozzleBerry said:
good reason to substitute ammonia: it stinks horribly!
sodium carbonate is sooo much nicer
(each one to his own, though.. )
Ayawasqero
Esteemed member
whiterasta said:
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yea, but whiterasta's tek handles those toxic nasties as well and is much simpler...which is what the essence of Entropymancer's quote was getting at...if they both remove the toxins and one is much simpler, why would people continue to use the other?mumbles said:
And endlessness, I feel you on the odor, it's definitely stinky, but it doesn't permeate the house or anything, so i didn't mind having to subject myself to that odor for the initial pour and five minutes it takes to decant...I have a bunch of sodium carbonate lying around (lye-ing around? hehe, i made an incorrect and bad chemistry pun) and ill give it a go on my current whiterasta extraction. I'm guessing i should just dissolve a bunch in water and slowly add the basified water, just as i would with ammonia?
SB
mumbles
Rising Star
You'll have to refresh my memory, i thought it was just an a/b (or three) and freebased ALL the alkaloids.SnozzleBerry said:
whiterasta wrote:
1)obtain a fat free clarified acidic extraction of the plant material.
2)basify using ammonia till no further precipitation occurs.
3)PATIENTLY wash the ultra-fine precipitate till wash is clear.
4)note color of precipitate, if brown while suspended, resalt, filter,rebasify, rewash. once should be plenty.
5)carefully isolate the F/B and dry and/or weigh and titrate to desired salt.
mumbles said:
yes...I'm not sure where you're hung up. The toxins in rue are not alkaloids (not to my knowledge anyway). The main alkaloids in rue by % composition, to my knowledge, are harmine and harmaline. Erowid states that rue contains Harmine, Harmaline, and Tetrahydroharmine (I hadn't known rue contained THH, maybe in very low quantities or something like that). So, yes, the method you posted is whiterasta's tek and it does freebase the alkaloids. The toxins are removed via the alcohol soak, just as with cold water or alcohol extracts from countless ethnobotanicals. The reason people even bother with these simple extractions is because they separate the goodies from the nasties. Otherwise we'd probably see many more people just eating the plant material. Hope that makes sense/helps you out.
peace
SB
EDIT: well, I guess technically the goodies are removed via alcohol soak, and the toxins and inert plant material are tossed, but you get my drift...
SnozzleBerry said:
yes there are unwanted alkaloids, vasicine and vasicinone.. I know for a fact they do not precipitate with manske, hence the great advantage of manske, but I do not know if they are removed by whiterasta's acidified alcohol... so until I know that, I will preffer doing manske at least once during the process
There are some articles at Science Direct, that I can see from the preview talking about the degradation of quinazoline alkaloids...From the preview/google cache it looks like it's saying somethin about degradation of vasicinone around pH 4, but my school subscription is acting funny and won't let me open the articles. I dunno if it's truncated and just grabbed 4 from something else, but I'm gonna keep trying to get in, as that would be good to know. If this is the case, then acidifying low enough with this method would handle those unwanted alks. Although personally, as someone who used to eat a gram of seeds occasionally and having done manske, even if those alks are still present, overall its nowhere near as bad as the seeds and nowhere near as time consuming or intensive as manske. I'll post what I find if my account stops acting weird...or better yet, if someone else has access to science direct and can check, that'd be awesome.
peace
SB
peace
SB
yeah would be interesting to know about it, but remember, its also important to know not only that it degrades, but what it degrades to.... Who knows might have even more unwanted
Also, I guess you are a man, right? me too.. I've heard that women seem to have more trouble with quinazoline alks..
Btw, I dont understand why people say manske is 'time consuming'... It is very easy, in 20 mins all the alks have precipitated (I tested myself and there was no late precipitation).. The filtering can be helped if the brew was filtered thoroughly before precipitating, or anyways if you dont like filtering you can just leave standing a while and decant, and redissolve last bit again for the later base precipitation.. Each one to his own of course..
Also, I guess you are a man, right? me too.. I've heard that women seem to have more trouble with quinazoline alks..
Btw, I dont understand why people say manske is 'time consuming'... It is very easy, in 20 mins all the alks have precipitated (I tested myself and there was no late precipitation).. The filtering can be helped if the brew was filtered thoroughly before precipitating, or anyways if you dont like filtering you can just leave standing a while and decant, and redissolve last bit again for the later base precipitation.. Each one to his own of course..
yea, I'm a man, its probably the same for all of the uterine contracting stuff, like lsa/lsd and whatnot, harder on women easier on men due to the whole biological differences for makin babies 
As to time consuming, i find it to be comparatively longer/requires more overall involvement and observation. For certain things that i'm not truly fascinated with or overly interested in, i like to have things that i can fit easily into my rather hectic schedule and find that this method does that. But i agree, to each their own, it is from our diversity of methods that we can truly accumulate the most comprehensive knowledge about what's going on...
As to time consuming, i find it to be comparatively longer/requires more overall involvement and observation. For certain things that i'm not truly fascinated with or overly interested in, i like to have things that i can fit easily into my rather hectic schedule and find that this method does that. But i agree, to each their own, it is from our diversity of methods that we can truly accumulate the most comprehensive knowledge about what's going on...
mumbles
Rising Star
SnozzleBerry said:
These are the alkaloids in Syrian Rue seeds:
Peganine (Vasicine)
Harmalol
2,3 - Trimethylene-4-quinazolone
1,2,3-(a-Hydroxy-trimethylene)-4-quinazolone
Oxodeoxypeganine
Oxopeganine
Tetrahydroharmine
Deoxyvasicone
2-Alkoxy-4-quinolone derivative
Deoxypeganine
Peganidine
Pegamine
Peganol
Ruine (8-Hydroxy-glucosylharmine
Deoxypeganidine
Dipegine
Isopeganidine
Vasicinone
Dyhydroruine (8 -Hydroxyglucosyl-harmaline
5- Hydroxytriptamine
6- Hydroxytriptamine
Harmol
yea, but in what minuscule concentrations?
doing the salt precipitation method yields only harmine and harmaline in detectable quantities. the other extract method being discussed here has not been analyzed yet.
well...does someone with the analytical machinery have the time or interest in seeing what this extraction yields? I, and I'm sure many others, would be very interested in seeing just what whiterasta's method pulls. I've been using it over manske for quite a while and have been more than happy with the results, but I'd love to see a breakdown of what we're actually pulling with this.burnt said:
peace
SB