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A simple question on DMT, Hyperspace, and Knowledge

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S

SparkDogg

Rising Star
If, having gone to the places you've gone and having learned the things you've learned, you could go back to the consciousness you knew prior to taking the leap...

Would you?

I've had this nagging feeling my entire life that there was significantly more to this world than what I could perceive, and significantly more to what is significantly more than the explanations offered to me by my parents.

I was raised in a form of Christianity (knock knock) which I walked away from several years back. Since that time I've been learning, discovering, understanding how much....larger the world is, and how utterly clueless I am about how it all works.

I have come a long way towards letting go of things that I need to let go of, and grasping hold of things I need to grasp, but I feel like I'm hitting a "wall" of sorts that will plague any further efforts towards understanding and growth.

That "wall" is comprised of all of the questions to which I have no answers. Who is God? Who am I? What is my purpose? What say (if any) do I have in all of this? What is the will of God, and more specifically, am I living contrary to it? If so, what will God to do me?

It is these questions (and others like them) that plague my existence. As I see it, they're the questions that have plagued all of mankind. I keep trying to build and move forward, but I don't have much of a foundation to build on now.

I could bury my head in the Bible trying to ascertain the answers, I could accept what I read and follow it, and likely have a peaceful life in doing so. I could read it and compare the answers found to those found by the Eastern religions, to Islam, to Greek\Roman teachings about God, to the belief structures of various indegenous peoples. I could spend the rest of my life reading and meditating, trying desperately to understand...and still fail because I don't see, perceive, or understand myself. I've grown incredibly skeptical of all religion, as on some level I'm sure they're all right, and on some level I'm sure that they're someone else explaining an abstract as best they can.

I need to know, I need to understand, I need to feel, I need to see.

I've had brief glimpses of the "more"ness of the world. I've watched plants morph together into the shape of a woman and dance seductively for me on Shrooms, I've felt myself become overwhelmed by the blackness of space until I was nothing, but a part of everything on DXM. I've felt the pure ecstasy of loving everyone on a different level on, well, ecstasy.

But while these experiences are hints, they feel like I'm only scratching at the edges of something. I know that the answers I seek in life can't be explained to me by anyone else. They're going to be found within. I keep telling myself that I'm willing to accept the Truth, no matter what it is. Hopefully I'm right, and ready.

All that being said, if any of you had it to do over again, would you choose "not" to know? Would you choose "not" to have gone down this path? Was your life prior to the knowledge you've acquired a type of "blissful" ignorance, and if so, would you return to it if you could?

I have to apologize, my very first post here began with a lie, that wasn't a simple question at all.
 
The universal question is why, the universal answer is...it just is :d

Wolf learned that from taking a 400mg oral dose of dmt. Just let everything be and stop asking why cause really there is no answer everything just is in a lowing river of imagination
 
oh and to answer your question if I would go back..no Dmt has brought me to a world of bliss and understanding. Anger and pain is non exsistant now because of the teacher plants
 
Hummm... For me it is not as simple as finding0 just revealed.

I have been on this relationship with DMT for a short short while, so it is not very difficult to me to relate to what you are saying. But i´ve been on this road for many years now and one thing i know is that you should not approach any experience thinking it will be all peace and love, just little hearts floating around and you shoudn´t also think she will show you the answer to everything that has been boggeling you. It is unrealistic and unhealthy to think so.
She ( i know in all my posts i refer to it as a she but She always presents herself to me that way) is trully a wonderfull master and you can grasp a whole lot from her teachings. But she will only help thoose who help themselves and not everybody can deal properly with what she uncovers.
You gotta feel it in your heart i guess, if you feel this is the way to go for you - give it a try. I can almost promise you that you won´t be shown all the secrets of the universe and go bezerk ;)

ll that being said, if any of you had it to do over again, would you choose "not" to know? Would you choose "not" to have gone down this path? Was your life prior to the knowledge you've acquired a type of "blissful" ignorance, and if so, would you return to it if you could?
Click to expand...

Having said that.... spice as only made me not know, not to be sure of anything. And that made me be a lot more free in this world =) For me she made me focus about myself, to work on me as a part of working everything. Sorry if this doesn´t make any sense to you but it is really the best i can describe my personal experience.
And ignorance is never a virtue, the path is made to go forward. Even if it is a bad bad experience you get something out of it (and this is not DMT specific).

I really enjoyed reading your post, great intro :D
Welcome to the Nexus and i hope you do find some answers
 
Yes, do not expect any substance to do all the work for you. They are kind of like the arrowspointing you to what you are looking for. You wil find it in meditation
 
finding0 said:
oh and to answer your question if I would go back..no Dmt has brought me to a world of bliss and understanding. Anger and pain is non exsistant now because of the teacher plants
Click to expand...

I couldn't ask for a much more glowing testimonial than that. Thank you.

RigelL said:
I have been on this relationship with DMT for a short short while, so it is not very difficult to me to relate to what you are saying. But i´ve been on this road for many years now and one thing i know is that you should not approach any experience thinking it will be all peace and love, just little hearts floating around and you shoudn´t also think she will show you the answer to everything that has been boggeling you. It is unrealistic and unhealthy to think so.
She ( i know in all my posts i refer to it as a she but She always presents herself to me that way) is trully a wonderfull master and you can grasp a whole lot from her teachings. But she will only help thoose who help themselves and not everybody can deal properly with what she uncovers.
You gotta feel it in your heart i guess, if you feel this is the way to go for you - give it a try. I can almost promise you that you won´t be shown all the secrets of the universe and go bezerk

Having said that.... spice as only made me not know, not to be sure of anything. And that made me be a lot more free in this world =) For me she made me focus about myself, to work on me as a part of working everything. Sorry if this doesn´t make any sense to you but it is really the best i can describe my personal experience.
And ignorance is never a virtue, the path is made to go forward. Even if it is a bad bad experience you get something out of it (and this is not DMT specific).
Click to expand...

Thank you for the insight. I don't have any delusions of some whimsical place full of nothing but benevolent "entities" and experiences. Life isn't like that, this world definitely isn't like that, and I wouldn't imagine heaven\hell\hyperspace\the afterlife to be like that. I'm not trying to be proud or bold and state that "I can handle the truth", but I do feel that I'm at a point in my life where I need to know the truth, and I'm willing to accept what I am, was, will be, or won't be in order to understand.

Also, thanks for the conjecture of there being no "universal answer" or knowledge that will just click everything into place. I'm not seeking that (plus it reminds me of "42" too much), perhaps I'm seeking some acknowledgement that there's more, perhaps some direction, perhaps some understanding. I just know that I am much more likely to understand something if I see it and interact with it myself.

I like the conjecture of "it's made me not know". I somehow understand what you're trying to convey there. I'm fine with not knowing. I'd much prefer to see something I can't possibly comprehend than to comprehend that there's something there but never see it.

Peace
 
I understand what you're going through, on so many levels. I too was raised in a Christian household, taught there is only 1 God, 1 way to salvation, follow these rules or you'll burn in hell. After getting older, I can't say that I've "turned my back" on religion, or on God, but I can say that I am deeply curious about what else is out there. I believe that organized religion as we know it today is nothing but a bunch of holier-then-thou hypocritical nonsense. I've found that most religious beliefs all have a lot in common, which generally leads me to wonder more about the authenticity of any of them.

I believe we all go through this struggle of self-identification and questions. I go through it on an almost daily basis. I agree with both of the above posters, it really just "is", and there's no substance that will provide all the answers. Sometimes we're lucky if a substance provides even one answer. From my own personal experience I've learned that if you enter an altered state of consciousness with the purpose of find answers to your questions, you may only end up with more questions. It's better to enter these states with a realization that you know nothing, and go with an open mind and an open heart. Meditate beforehand, clear your mind, and prepare yourself for what's to come. Go in with a blank slate and no expectations whatsoever. Quite often you'll find answers to questions you didn't know you had until the answer was revealed. That's the part I find so intriguing. Sometimes you'll hear talk in the entheogenic scene about "waking up". Once you experience this feeling of your eyes being opened and seeing the world for what it truly is, it's absolute bliss. Not to be too cliche, but it is kind of like the Matrix, when Neo realizes everything as he knew it was a lie. It's a feeling of freedom and liberation to some extent.

Try entering your journeys not seeking a specific answer, but seeking truth and knowledge. It takes some adjustment and can be mentally taxing at times, but in the end I've found it to be much more enlightening. Often times it will be a week, or a month, or 6 months later, and I will suddenly realize some grand epiphany relating to the experience, and everything seems to make more sense.
 
"I'd much prefer to see something I can't possibly comprehend than to comprehend that there's something there but never see it."

Well, I think DMT does both. It makes me see something I can't possibly comprehend, and leaves me with the feeling that there is so much more to discover. In fact, that seems to be what the whole spiritual/entheogenic quest is all about. I would definitely not choose to go back to not having had these experiences. My life seems much more "full" with them. I too was raised with some catholic guilt trips, and I learned to see beyond that. I am still learning, in fact, that "rules of conduct" suggested by western religion are not meaningful in themselves. They instill fear and self-doubt where Intention and Openness should be the prime concerns. If you go into a psychedelic trip with the idea that this or that is evil, you'll most likely be slapped in the face with your own fears. I've learned it the hard way. And it applies to reality also. Tripping, listening and meditating ( ideally at the same time :) ) tends to soften one's approach to reality. A problem I perceive with religion is that it is so often counter-spiritual.
 
I'm pretty sure it's religion's faith in you and the fact that you and everyone will have these questions. (My opinion) Religion attempts to deceive you by pretending it has all the answers, and once you believe they do, they have a power over you, and the way they attempt to maintain this power and control is through fear tactics. They make you believe that if you don't comply with their tenets, that bad, spooky things will happen. If I had to go back to the time when I believed what my religion said, I don't think I would find myself in ignorant bliss. Religion created a lot of stress for me because even though they pretend to have the answers, they are vague, confusing, and sometimes contradictory. I remember going to religious school and upon noticing an inconsistency with an earlier teaching, I would raise my hand to point it out, and the teacher (or clergyman) would merely make excuses or amend the story to make it fit. Even when I was a "believer," I still never was consoled with where they said I was going cause it wasn't quite clear they could know just as much as anyone else. They were taking it on faith, just as many of us here on the nexus are taking our current theories on the afterlife on faith. The difference is that regardless of whether or not there is an "true afterlife" (one in which we truly get to live on or not), with DMT, we can have a first hand look and feel at just what exactly the afterlife, or the place you go right when you die might look and feel like. As they say, "seeing is believing," as it is a first-hand experience. You don't have to take the word of some hokey religious leader who most likely is just taking the word of some other hokey religious leader. Obviously I can't be sure that I have all the answers to those questions you and all of us are looking for, but I'm much more confident in my ever-evolving theories now than those that I used to have when I subscribed to a religion. Psychedelics have opened my eyes to scrutinizing and perceiving myself and the world around me in very different lights, and I wouldn't trade that for anything in the universe (except maybe an awesome soul mate 8) ).
 
Seriously, thank you to all who've replied. I truly appreciate the perspective.

Frankly this thread has bolstered my resolve to press further and scratch and claw at the edges more until I see what's underneath.

I tend to look at everything somewhat backwards from most people. Most people work forwards, starting at the beginning of something (a question, something which you're going to design\build...) and try to build from there until they get to the end\completion.

I work most efficiently by beholding or envisioning a thing, a destination, a system, as a whole, then I work backwards about how to get there.

This is fine and dandy when you're working with tangible things. I design and build very complex systems for work, and as long as I can "see" what the end result I need is, I can usually step backwards to find the path to that "system".

But this approach doesn't lend itself well when dealing with existential questions. Religion is like school, you're taught a "path" to get to a destination that has frankly never made a bit of sense to me. We're taught to walk a path and if we walk it diligently and without question we'll one day reap the rewards of knowledge and understanding, as well as developing a relationship with God.

I know that I work much better if I can see the end, the result, the whole. I don't care if none of it makes sense, I'm not the kind of person that really needs everything to make sense. I can accept things being simply for the sake of being. What I can't accept is stepping through this entire life blindly grasping towards something that I can't see, feel, or understand.

So maybe me seeking spice is seeking some kind of "cheat codes" to life and understanding. A tool to skip past what would normally take a lifetime of experience and understanding to begin to see. The desire to do so feels a bit "wrong" to my sensibilities, but why would I exist with such a curiosity if I was meant to suppress it my entire life?

I'm rambling again, but thank you to all for your insights and kind words. There are biblical principles that I still cling to, one of those being that you can ascertain whether a tree is good or not by the fruit that it produces. This community seems chock full of good people with the kind of love, peace, and mutual respect that's sorely lacking in this world. This fact alone soothes my mind and tells me that there isn't anything inherently "wrong" with this.
 
SparkDogg said:
If, having gone to the places you've gone and having learned the things you've learned, you could go back to the consciousness you knew prior to taking the leap...

Would you?
Click to expand...

No, no, and heeeeelll no.

I'm a far better person (even my girlfriend will tell you this) for my use of psychedelics.
Even if I were to go back to my "previous consciousness", I would undoubtedly end up right where I am now.
There is no quenching of the thirst for that which we long for, but the journey keeps the dog faithfully racing around the track with us biting at its heels.
 
There is no go back - time doesn't work that way. Your life story is just getting uncovered little by little. If there is a God, you see what you see for a reason. Is that not enough?
 
To answer your original question about whether or not I would go back after trying spice, no, I wouldn't take back one experience, even the stressful ones.
DMT has left me with more questions than I had to begin with, but that's the great part. It is a path, not a destination.
I was raised into a Christian family aswell, but Methodist, not Catholic. I was an atheist for most of my life honestly, I am now very spiritual, after exploring spice, not religious I'd say though.
DMT has left me with a glow that I don't think anyone could take away.
Entheogens like dmt aren't answers as you probably know, just tools. They put the ball in your court for self-discovery. As was said before aswell, I wouldn't enter the experience 'seeking', as much as 'listening' or opening your mind to the experience.
 
mandelbrot said:
There is no quenching of the thirst for that which we long for, but the journey keeps the dog faithfully racing around the track with us biting at its heels.
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This is a great quote. I just may steal this (with credit of course) 😉

Religion, especially Christianity, is based on blind faith. We have the power to determine whether or not we hold onto this faith and this belief of something we can't see. But the problem is exactly that: It's in our power to make that decision. And in every religion I've ever learned about, the consequence of failing to believe and hold faith in that concept is certain doom, in this case Hell. We constantly hear this over and over again, and as gobalswg said, it's fear tactics. The years of teaching causes us to fear anything but what we've been taught. We're expected to trust and believe in some higher being, while feeding the pockets of the televangelist wearing an Armani suit. Or donating money to the poor children in 3rd world countries, while the host of the commercial is feeding you a sob story while walking around in Italian leather loafers.

My opinion: I believe in a God, a higher power, a creator of things beyond our imagination. Who, or what, God is exactly, I don't know. I accept the fact that I may never know, and that I may also be totally wrong. But it's hard for me to believe that we just magically poofed into existence. The universe is far too complex to be just a series of random events. What I don't believe in is the concept of organized religion, the need to live life in fear, or the need to feed the fat pockets of the hypocrite in the $3,000 suit who leaves the church and heads over to his mistresses house. I believe we can have a relationship with whatever God we choose to believe in without giving into the lies and blanket of fear that society deems necessary for survival. I would suggest if you have strong ties and beliefs in a higher power to hold onto that, but find out what exactly it is you believe in.
 
That "feeding the pockets" comment from x1balba reminded me of this George Carlin quote that I feel compelled to share with you all.

" Think about it. Religion has actually convinced people that there's an invisible man -- living in the sky -- who watches everything you do, every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a special list of ten things he does not want you to do. And if you do any of these ten things, he has a special place, full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish, where he will send you to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry forever and ever 'til the end of time!
But He loves you.
He loves you, and He needs money! He always needs money! He's all-powerful, all-perfect, all-knowing, and all-wise, somehow just can't handle money! Religion takes in billions of dollars, they pay no taxes, and they always need a little more. Now, you talk about a good bullshit story. Holy Shit!"
 
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