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Research Acacia floribunda - Workspace and information

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acacian

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This is an acacia no doubt on the radar of many psychonauts hoping to grow their own source of tryptamines. Its a fast growing, frost and drought tolerant, foliage/floral abundant species; which can contain good levels of tryptamines in its phyllodes.. rendering it an especially appealing candidate to people hoping to grow a sustainable tryptamine source. But, many people report disappointing results with this species and haven’t found it to be a viable source of DMT. Meanwhile, others report very good results with floribunda. So what’s going on here?

Firstly, here’s what we do know about Acacia floribunda:
  • Long history of cultivation and widely naturalized outside of it’s native range
  • Highly variable in taxonomy - both in the wild and in cultivation
  • Belongs to the ‘longifolia clade’ - a group of closely related species that share a common genetic line. Includes species such as Acacia obtusifolia, longissima, maidenii, longifolia, mucronata, oxycedrus, orites, phlebophylla , alpina, dellachiana, and sophorae.
  • Appears to be an intermediate species between members of the longifolia clade.. one of it’s early synonyms was actually Acacia intermedia!
  • A member of section Juliflorae - cylindrical flowered species of Acacia
  • Easy to propagate from seed
  • Different forms - some consistently contain DMT, others contain do not.
  • Fast growing, frost tolerant, drought tolerant. Adaptive to many kinds of environment
  • Contains usually around 0.3-0.4% (sometimes higher) alkaloids in its phyllodes and up to from 0.4-0.8% in the bark.
  • Alkaloid profile consists of DMT, NMT, Harman, phenethylamine and other betacarbolines. More analysis needs to be done. Extracts usually a thick oil consistency. Difficult to solidify.

Now that people abroad are growing the White Sally for this purpose, I think its a good idea to narrow down the factors leading to this variance. I think that like Acacia Maidenii, we are probably looking at an issue of strain/genetics. There appear to many forms of this species .. some appear fruitful while others do not. Anecdotally there are some traits associated with active strains and the same for inactive strains. But there is sometimes crossover - making this species the perfect symbol of that old saying about DMT - it brings more questions than answers

But there are varieties that are known to yield - in fact of the active forms, I have never NOT found DMT in them - consistent with floribunda pioneer, JJ’s findings.

I encourage any members here to collect seed from active forms and to share with others. Share the Seeds, sister site of the nexus, is a good platform to share with any interested nexians. Seed from these active forms is essential for those who wish to propagate floribunda as a tryptamine source. Most vendors tend to stock seeds of the inactive common cultivar. Unless gathered personally from active trees, or obtained from someone who gathered them, it’s a gamble.

The native range of this species is not entirely agreed on. It is certainly widespread from south east QLD all the way down to Victoria - but it has been speculated that the NSW/QLD border ranges population and a more restricted population in Victoria may have been some of the earliest true native populations, before becoming widely naturalized throughout these states - especially post cultivation.

Area to area we see varying taxonomy which I explore below.There is some overlapping of features between forms, but certain aspects of the active form are consistently missing from the inactive type - and vice versa. Hybridization is likely at play here too. It’s been my observation that in many cases the more wild varieties tend to produce alkaloids. Even the non DMT rich wild forms usually have alkaloids which exhibit mild activity. Further down the post I have included a more direct comparison between the active/inactive types.

Variation in foliage, bark and growth habit I’ve separated into 3 corresponding groups that intersect. Number 4 foliage style is associated with bark groups 2 and 3 and growth habits 1 and 2. Number 5 foliage style associated with bark group 1 and growth habit group 3 - which is the commonly cultivated form found in urban areas. I will try to develop a better system here.. if anyone has suggestions I’m open to suggestions on how to organize this info.

Phyllodes:
1. Stiff, glabrous and slightly leathery - usually observed in small bushy prostrate form. Often found in harsher/drier environments.
2. Soft/papery texture with appressed hairs present (also on the stems) - present on the more weeping varieties.
3. Soft/papery texture but glabrous - meaning little to no appressed hairs present - usually the more prostrate form
4. Narrow to broad phyllodes within single specimen.
5. Uniform, same length and width across the specimen. Less prominent primary and secondary longitudinal nerves and often little to no anastomosis.

Bark variation:

1. Smooth, almost shiny silver/grey bark - most common with the commercially planted variety - (coincides with phyllode group 3). I haven’t found floribunda with this kind of bark to be active.

2. Greyish brown bark; smooth but with a slightly rougher sand papery texture. No smooth "shin” present. Rough almost 3D lenticels present.. at varying degrees of abundance.

3. Light brown bark with very long lenticels present.. smooth but less shiny than the first.. present on more wild forms.
Floribunda with this style bark grow more ‘tree” like. once the trunk gets thick enough, it will often lie along the ground.. I associate it with the active varieties (exclusively correlates with no.2 and 3 type phyllodes) however it can be present on forms with no DMT too - usually other alkaloids will still be present and are mildly active.

Flowers:
3-8cm in length.. can range from very loose and long to shorter and “tight”

Colour: Cream/white through to pale yellow.

Growth Habits:

1. Single main trunk sometimes splitting off further up the trunk. Weeping/cascading new foliage with phyllodes alternating down the stem. Loosely packed white/pale inflorescences.

2. Small bush. Erect growth habit with foliage occurring only at the very end of vertically oriented branches. Seems to grow in more rugged areas. I suspect in areas where it gets very cold that foliage growing higher up has advantages. Flowers more tightly packed/shorter.

3. Small tree that splits into multiple trunks immediately at the base. Phyllodes tend not to alternate very far down any single stem. Lots of offshoots on each branch. Inactive.


I’ve edited this post to be up to date with what we know about the active vs inactive form below.

Active form/s:
  • Variable phyllode length and width in single specimens. Often much broader phyllodes than inactive form. Even on trees with narrower phyllodes, they lack uniformity.
  • 3 primary nerves, with the middle nerve slightly more prominent. 6-10 secondary longitudinal nerves with prominent anastomoses - particularly with broader phyllodes
  • Tends to grow much taller and less prostrate; single trunk often exceeding 10m In height, with foliage sometimes much higher up. Usually less prostrate than the commonly cultivated form. Most recent test showed that bushy form can be highly active, with all other features consistent with established type characteristics.
  • More prominent lenticels on the bark than cultivars
  • Bark is less shiny/grey. Tends to be more brown.
  • Phyllodes arrange further down the stem and ends of branches often weeping
  • More pale flowers
  • New growth has soft white stems, and the phyllodes a white outline -this is due to more prominent presence of appressed hairs on edges of phyllodes. Tops as a result have a white coloring to them.
  • Older trees can be huge
  • Phyllodes broader at ends of branches, often narrower as they progress down stem. This likely contributes to the willowy habit.

Inactive form/s:
  • Uniform phyllode length and width. Little to no variation present within a specimen
  • Less lenticels present on bark
  • 1-3 primary nerves: much less visible (particularly the two slightly lesser primary nerves). 6-10 secondary longitudinal nerves. Anastomoses between longitudinal nerves much less prominent and at times almost absent.. even with broader phyllodes.
  • Usually doesn’t exceed 5-6m in height and usually splits into more than one main trunk. Trees don’t get especially big.. they seem to hit a “cap” as far as size. I think they probably don’t live as long
  • Foliage does not weep as much; due to the way the phyllodes are arranged on the stem
  • Flowers tend to be more yellow
  • Slightly different colored foliage. New growth/tops lack the white appearance of the active form
  • Bark is often more shiny grey
  • Phyllodes usually narrower

In this thread I'd like to document the taxanomic variability of Acacia floribunda and it’s connection to presence of alkaloids .. But I would love the help of others.

There’s been a number of positive and negative reports here at the nexus. I myself tested floribunda around 20 times before I found the DMT containing type. It would be awesome if members could jump in and share their experiences. I really love this species. The level of dedication required to finally connect with this species in hyperspace was primarily responsible for initiating my obsession with Acacia.

Acacia floribunda is a vibe - emanating calm, gentle energy and a nurturing intelligence. I’m interested in hearing of other’s relationships with the plant. I hope the information in this thread may lead to others experiencing Acacia floribunda’s graceful wisdom.

Photos of active floribunda below.. all of these have been successfully extracted by myself or other nexians; so they’re a good reference.

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Look forward to contributing!

I think as nexians transition to growing their own plants, success stories have to be as detailed as possible so other users can replicate successes and not be discouraged. Don't discount a subspecies based on a single strain!

Floribundas are a very fast growing variety. Simply soak seeds in boiling water for 24-48h and plant ~5mm in a river sand/perlite/coir blend (I added native potting mix with success). If you do it right in a good climate, your trees will be over six feet tall at a year old. Sustainable and convenient.

Document and share findings!
 
An active broad phyllode weeping variety..

growth habit much more tree like. Pendulous foliage. Phyllodes soft and papery with appressed hairs. No basal gland and sometimes up to around 1.5cm in width

Flowers occur only in bursts at the end of branches... much less 'floribundant' than most commonly planted varieties. Pale flowers which this lot of photos didn't capture as well as the first photo in the OP. Loosely packed and around 6cm in length

Smooth brown/grey trunk bark with lenticels observed.

Fairly straight seed pods with oblong shaped seed.. much larger seed than the others in the area which were maybe half the size. Germinates very readily.. very desireable form to grow both for its gentle energy and its good tryptamine levels
 

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wattlez said:
Look forward to contributing!

I think as nexians transition to growing their own plants, success stories have to be as detailed as possible so other users can replicate successes and not be discouraged. Don't discount a subspecies based on a single strain!

Floribundas are a very fast growing variety. Simply soak seeds in boiling water for 24-48h and plant ~5mm in a river sand/perlite/coir blend (I added native potting mix with success). If you do it right in a good climate, your trees will be over six feet tall at a year old. Sustainable and convenient.

Document and share findings!

Agreed.. I think it would be great if others could share pictures or descriptions of the varieties they worked with. Both positive and negative findings..
 
HippyDippy said:
Does one extract from the bark, the leaves, the flowers, the seeds? Is there any info on the % of tryptamines?
acacian said:
ts a fast growing, frost tolerant, foliage (and floral) abundant species which can contain [read - it's variable] good [i.e. somewhere in excess of 0.2%, on a good day, if you're lucky, as a general rule of thumb] levels of tryptamines in its phyllodes..
[annotation added]
 
I experienced no noticeable effects from one specimen I don't have good pictures of at the moment, but will post one when I get a chance.

It was a couple of years old and very fast growing indeed. Seed sourced from an Australian ebay seller.

Edit: I think it's a prostrate variety, because it sends shoots from the base, which I cut off to make it look like a tree.
 
From the active varieties the phyllodes are pretty reliable. between 0.3-0.4% the latter on a good day.. some have reported higher.. The usual applies with stem and twig having the same percentage as bark. Thoughtful pruning will increase foliage too.

Moving forward with this species I think seed should be sourced thoughtfully. I know of two vendors that sell seed within the 'ethno' context which are a good start. I won't name them until I have clarification on naming vendors..

Anybody reading this who knows of active trees they can collect seeds from should collect and share that seed. Unfortunately for people buying internationally there is no way of really knowing what genetic variety it came from, and to make it more frustrating there are no sub species recognised within the floribunda umbrella so this will never be clarified by vendors.. maybe some of us who have worked with the desireable varieties can help share some of the seed

EDIT .. I contacted one vendor to get confirmation on variety and they weren't able to confirm which provenance it came from nor that it was tested for alkaloids
 
An observation i've found: A nickname for floribunda is "White Sally", i'm wondering where this nickname originated from? I don't have any books to confirm, but maybe it was from more white flowers than the typical yellow on acacias?

Regarding another subspecies, after some research, i'm wondering why this Certain species looks very similar physically and has a curiously similar alkaloid profile, yet is diagonal geographically to the reference species? Are there more examples of this? Could we actually break down acacias using far more environmental data points and be able to group based on growing environment to explain trait expression? (I need to learn more about polyploidy)

Is this potentially similar with floribunda/longifolia? I see distinctively silver/grey trunks in every coastal sophorae, which is a subspecies of longifolia I believe? My floribundas have very different trunks with lenticels, these sophorae do not. Are people misidentifying inactive coastal longifolias as floribunda? I would be so interested in seeing genetic lineage of species.


What I have found with an unhappy floribunda (All my floribundas are from the same seed batch) which grew in "tougher" conditions (Watered less frequently) only has phyllodes on the end of branches. Vastly different to the more consistently cared for ones which have phyllodes across every branch with the same consistency.


I definitely look forward to seeing which colour my floribundas flower this year, and sharing some photos ;)


TLDR: Plant genetics (Polyploidy) confusing amateurs and causing incorrect identifications?
 
Great post! I first learnt to identify floribunda by buying one at a nursery. Once I was familiar with some of its physical characteristics I could identify them quite easily. However, I soon discovered that there were floribundas that appeared quite different. My findings correlate with Acacian's findings.

Type 1 - I refer to this as the 'Typical' floribunda (which is the one I purchased from the nursery). Phyllodes are narrower and densely populated. Flowers are often shorter in length. Type 1 looks more like a bushy shrub than a classic tree. The trunk bark looks like a smooth brown skin opposed to actual bark.

Type 2 - Phyllodes are longer and are spaced much further apart. They are broader and less uniform with a papery texture (less rigid). Flower stalks are significantly longer than Type 1. Could be a tree or a shrub.

With regard to anastomisation, floribunda phyllodes typically exhibit lots of very fine parallel longitudinal veins (with little anastomisation - if any). I have found what I think is a Type 3 floribunda which has lots of anastomisation present with appressed hairs. Flowers are grouped in 2s, 3s & 4s.
 

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Thanks for the pictures CheeseCat, interesting to see the differences. Have you tested any of these for alkaloids?

I noticed driving down the highway (NSW) there are a lot of wattles in bloom already, I haven't ever stopped to inspect and identify these ones along the highways, but they are definitely varieties with the very yellow flowers as opposed to the cream coloured ones Acacian has shown. I assume they are floribundas or longifolia variants...? My floribundas have not flowered yet (Maybe they are too young at less than 2 years old).
 
Hey Wattlez, I've tested Type 1 several times and had success only once with the branch bark, quite low yielding around 0.1% (it wasn't in bloom so might try again when it's flowering) - very unique experience with Syrian rue. I've tried Type 2 once with no luck and I'm still yet to try Type 3 (hoping that Type 3 may offer good yield due to the anastomisation). I've found a couple of BIG trees that I think are floribundas similar to what Acacian has mentioned but they are tricky to access. The most common floribundas (in my area) are Type 2. It'd be good if floribundas were a bit more reliable for yield. I spot all my acacias whilst driving. Once you get an eye for them they are everywhere! :) My 4yr old floribunda is close to flowering so will investigate that soon.
 
..i'd like to see what research nexians bring in on this..especially sourcing seed
Important to note for growing from seed - may take 3 years to reach full spectrum

i'm of the opinion that the original type characteristics of A floribunda (i.e. pale cream flowers) should be taken to indicate floribunda proper, and that any specimens with yellow flowers should either be treated as a subspecies, or are natural hybrids with other species in the longifolia clade...To my knowledge, and from recollection of conversation with pioneer researcher JJ, no instances of floribunda with these type characteristics proved to be devoid of dmt

..i'd suggest then that all other varieties are the ones where alkaloid variability need to be assessed...some are consistently positive..I also think there may have been misidentification with some negative results...

It's important that Seed Suppliers do some extra checking to verify quality control, and seed to type stability
 
Hey plant people :)

I'm sorry for being so absent from this thread the last months its been a bit hectic on my end. Harsh winter.. lots of dead seedlings. I felt really defeated after all the hard work I put in since moving back home.. simultaneously busy with work/was more musically/inwardly focussed during the harsh winter (some nights down to -9!).. the plants are calling again! .. emerging from dormancy. And as am I.. I'm impressed how such young seedlings braved such harsh cold .. its new shoots galore with this mild weather so am really enjoying seeing what I thought were lost plants springing to life with a lot of enthusiasm.. of course the one plant that decided to randomly germinate during some of the coldest nights was A. Phlebophylla .. truly a trough a$$ plant.. it was not phased by the weather..

Thanks for the photos CheeseCat (and would love to know then story behind your name) as well as going to the effort to categorize them.. is interesting to hear that your findings have correlated with my own. I'd be really interested to know which area the commercial variety associated with so little success came from. I feel I should add- don't be discouraged by lack of success so far with this plant.. when it finally sings its really quite awesome - its one of my favourite acacias. The extract is gentle yet precise .. there is a stillness/peacefullness about it that is deeply moving

Hopefully some new hands can help contribute to our understanding of this plant's nuances.. It seems we have agreed on some general trends in what to avoid and to look for.

Great to see you kicking about again Nen.. the acacian presence on the nexus seems to oscillate a little but after all this time keeps its spark. :) What do you think the best approachj moving forward in understanding this plant and its alkaloids is? To me growing both the forms confirmed to yield alkaloids as well as those that don't seems logical to grow and compare notes on.. both in terms of extraction results and taxanomic features. Its not hard to get seed from the active varieties.. I spent a lot of time gathering seed in summer of specific trees that consistently yielded good results.. even in their juvenile stage I have spotted some differences in foliage.. I will attach some photos comparing varieties soon.

I really agree about the quality control with the seed - although depends where we are coming from. Nurseries may be less sympathetic to only stocking what tryptamine enthusiasts deem the "pure variety". . particularly as the botanical classification of Floribunda is so loose (like its flowers.. most of the time ;) ).. and according to the current classification, the commerical varieties pretty clearly fit the bill ... the pale yellow to cream coloured flowers, the often papery foliage with appressed hairs, finely anastomosing veins, the lack of a basal gland.. these features are pretty reliable accross the board in both the active ones and the inactive ones..

My understanding is that the classic botanical classification of Floribunda usually states a spectrum of pale yellow to off white/cream. Acacia legend Marion Simmons states in Acacias of Australia vol. 1 that the flowers are "light yellow, loose spikes 2 - 5 ( to 8 )cm long, produced in abundance on short fine, often hairy stalks, singly or in pairs in the leaf axils."

"Once included with longifolia but differs in its more bushy habit, paler more distant flowers, narrower, more finely nerved phyllodes".. I'd also add it has a very differen't citrusy smell compared to the almost pheromone feel when smelling the flowers of Longifolia.

Plantnet.com describes "pale yellow to ± white flowers scaterred on rachis"

In Terry Tame's book Acacia's of South East Australia he writes "inflorescence: cream to pale yellow flowers in moderately dense spikes up to 60mm long"

So there is clearly a spectrum that this plant covers under the current classification..and its irritatingly vast. We can at least conclude that the paler specimens are associated with bearing tryptamines (most of the time). As are those with broader phyllodes. Like you CheeseCat, I have only had success with broad phyllode specimens. The closely spaced narrow phyllode varieties I am yet to have any luck with.. despite their sometimes very pale loose flowers. I have also outlined differences in bark texture in positive varieties.. i don't feel like I outlined those differences particularly elegantly so maybe someone else could share their experience?

I would love to see JJ come out of the wood works to tell us more of his work with this species.. which areas he tested it in.. did the taxaonomic features vary much or were they consistent etc.. depending on the area he was testing in.. I could easily see him yielding entirely positive results (eg northern coastal NSW and eastern rural VIC).. I wonder whether he tested some of the other types that are associated with lack of success... Either way.. his findings of consistency are at odds with subsequent findings by other researchers.. but maybe its not a question of is A. Floribunda consistent.. maybe it is a question of what variety of A. Floribunda is active..and what defines that variety. I can't seem to agree that if people are getting negative results that it is probably not true floribunda... as I pointed out the classification of Floribunda is loose to begin with. It contains room for a lot of variability.. this is frustrating.

Anyways.. we seem to be on a fairly unanimous trajectory but it still feels a little to vague to me..

Thoughts on moving forward?

Those who know positive specimens.. I really encourage to go and collect seed and grow them .. share that seed. Compare it with other types and makes notes etc

Again, below is a known yielder.. displaying the agreed characteristics we should look for
 

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..hi acacian, thanks for the update, and pic
by 'type' i meant that the original plant specimen named, originally Mimosa floribunda, in 1803, from plants grown in garden in France, from seed collected on a voyage to Australia...from memory i'm pretty sure the original description is pale cream to white flowers...(it may take me a little while to try dig that up again) ..when botanists looked around more in Australia they matched various acacias to this original description, but included wider characteristics..there's enough differences in what's called floribunda to make me slightly uncomfortable...is it a useful categorisation?...the ways you're sub dividing it here is interesting, though it's worth noting bark characteristics can be affected by environmental factors..
the early common name white sallow also suggests that form..
i threw this in anyway more to stimulate an update..

the implication here is that seed sourced from Europe, especially France, will have higher chance of being this cream flowers type, wherever it originally came from in Australia..

happy study and growing to you acacian

[edit: the lectotype was changed to Racosperma floribundum (Vent.) Pedley, Austrobaileya 2: 348 (1987) , the original lectotype is Cels gardens France..i'm suggesting the definition is now too broad]
 
Wow thats really interesting about the really early specimens.. was it known to be as widespread back then as currently is? I'd be interested to know how many populations were observed back then.. and whether what we are seeing are changes within the species from widespread cultivation in differen't climates (and in proximity to different species) or whether it has always been so variable but is so widespread that the differences in taxonomy hadn't yet been documented... i suspect a bit of both

I think environmental factors are one of the biggest factors at play with this species.. there are distinct changes I notice depending on the kind of environment it grows in.. up here in armidale they are much more robust, erect.. the foliage grows at the tops.. almost like some of the more desert acacias. Its less weepy but still a little.. The flowers are more lemon/pale yellow. Here in the new england its a harsh climate and the specimens are accordingly tougher I think.. go to an area like the dandenong ranges or gippsland east of Melbourne and the specimens growing in the woodlands are mostly what I'd call the "active variety" .. soft, papery, broad phyllodes. Taller trees... less prostrate than the ones often found growing in the less wild areas. Trunks, smooth but almost slightly more orange brown than the silver grey (with brown underneath) more commonly seen.

The closer I get to the coast the paler the flowers get..

I'm going to make it my mission to continue collecting seed from known active floribunda.. I have promised it to a number of people so I will make effort to get on that asap. but I will say too that even within the active ones there are some interesting differences. Seed collected from the tree in photo no.1 in the OP are significantly longer than those of the cluster of trees growing in photos 3 and 4 which are quite smaller.. both varieties active .. the first probably is closer in characteristics to this first specimen grown in france?
 
I have changed the name of the thread to something a little more constructive and hope to see more contributions..

below is an old post of mine in the extraction workspace. Inititally diagnosed as Acacia Longifolia, it turned out to be an active Floribunda with particularly leathery phyllodes compared to most.. I discovered this when I revisted the tree in spring.. I suspect hybridization here.. there were acacia longifolia growing in the same stand of trees. One very apparent difference between these two species is the scent of the flowers. Longifolia tends to have tighter flowers with what I can only describe as a "human-like pheromone" to them. The anastomisation with floribunda is much finer too.

Anyhoo.. this tree is an interesting one. It was highly active after heavy rain before flowering. My three tests were all in this short period. I imagine summer or winter the alkaloid profile might change as would the yield

acacian said:
unidentified acacia extraction

species: unknown - suspected to be of relation to either floribunda or maidenii - definitely section julifloreae

Phyllodes: dark green, Length - 8.5-11cm .. averaging around 9cm on most phyllodes. width: 13-18mm. Central prominent vain accompanied by two lesser prominent veins.. nerves anatomising. leathery texture. Flower rods formed but not yet in bloom… much less abundant than most floribunda. Basal gland present on some phyllodes - seemingly absent on others

Flower rods 4.5cm and occurring only at the end of the branches
trunk: smooth
Tree was found about 10km from healesville, on the side of a highway. several branches were pruned and the frees phyllodes weighed 200g.

. the phyllodes were cut into small pieces with scissors. I avoided the blender this time because I am sick of the high amounts of particulate matter that need to be strained from the solution.

. a generous amount of water was added.. enough that the phyllodes were completely covered. a dash of vinegar was added and the phyllodes were simmered for about an hour and a half. the liquid was then poured off and put in a pan to be evaporated over low heat. a second lot of water was added and brought to the boil. the heat was then turned off and it was left to sit for 24 hrs before being brought to the boil again and then combined with the first lot.

. the combined liquids were filtered and then reduced to around 350ml

. 15ml NaOH was dissolved in 150ml warm water and added to the soup

. a tablespoon of salt was dissolved in around 70ml boiling water, allowed to cool for a few minutes and then added to the soup

. 100ml toluene was added to the solution and mixed via swirling fashion for about half an hr

. the toluene was separated and evapped with a hairdryer yielding a minimal amount of yellow residue. it was too sticky to scare up properly so I decided to pour 50ml acetone over it. it readily dissolved and the acetone was poured over a small amount of the phyllode

bioassay confirmed the extract to be "active" … a very pleasant warming of the head was felt fairly instantly after inhalation (similar to the warming sensation of the mucronata extract from last year), and a subtle ringing sound followed. it was easiest to stay still on the extract and at certain points movement felt too difficult to bother with. I laid in darkness and fell into a sub-awake dream state where I kept "waking up" to a dog biting my arm and pulling me out to the back door. the sensation was nor painful nor scary, though I felt a little creeped out after snapping out of it around 10 times and continually going back into it.

acacian said:
been working again with the alkaloids I retrieved from the unidentified acacia extraction in post 67 further up the page.. going to some very deep spaces with this extract. I am not sure what the alkaloid/alkaloids are - the taste is extremely bitter and unpleasant, though the effects are very pleasant and deep trance... as I've said with other extracts as well, visions can be felt more than seen on it... it feels tryptamine-like in effects though I thought the bitterness may indicate something else? ... very entheogenic extract none the less I'm hoping to test the tree again. was from the yarra ranges region

photos of it below

acacian said:
so I have a bit of good news myself which I am pleased to inform you guys of - that extract from post 87 does in fact contain dmt... perhaps in equal conjunction with another alkaloid/alkaloids as it feels heavier and much more drawn out than purer dmt extracts..the initial feeling after blowing out the vapor I imagine could be comparable to being sat on by an elephant. very heavy physically but pleasantly so in my own subjective opinion..

..as I recently posted I've been experimenting with this extract again after it has been sitting for a couple months, and the other day I had quite a deep (but not so visionary) experience - the bitterness of the extract I presumed meant it was another alkaloid and void of dmt..though there was a distinct tryptamine feeling to it- it wasn't until today though that the extract revealed its true power.. I now think that the bitterness may have been partly due to the extract being soaked onto the phyllodes which were allowed to dry out for too long

just then I had a larger dose which I took in consecutive breaths to allow me to hold the smoke/vapor in for longer and as soon as I blew out I entered a very profound and visionary space (not the level of a breakthrough but still very deep) typical of dmt. there is however something else in there which is altering the experience drastically and giving a very powerful bodyload (not neccesarily unpleasant but quite a force)

I have one hit left and I will fire it up later tonight...

when its drier I'll retest as it had rained prior to the last test

This also suggests that extracts should not be ruled out straight away for a few reasons:

1. Doseage .. clearly the early bioassays were not a high enough doseage
2. Vaporisation technique was probably also not up to scratch
3. Appearance or smell can be misleading when other compounds are present. This extract had a differen't scent to most extracts I had tried

And as nen888 reminds us - our extraction method is important and phyllodes can behave differently plant to plant due to certain complexes. In recent years I've tended towards a slower more gentle extraction soaking for long periods of time in ethanol/water/vinegar.. (ground phyllode, twig and stem) but I should also submit material to heat as well. The ethanol/dilute acid soaking thing for me is convenient because it ticks away while I am busy with work and other commitments. I can leave it for a week and let it do its thing.. and its quiet.. a little like the extract! Future experiments in the name of better objectivity I will boil material after I do my usual method just to be sure I have for sure extracted what is/isn't present

I suspect many active extracts have been written off prematurely due to some of these factors

My friend and I are off on a Floribunda day today heading east of here (I'm northern tablelands NSW) to document trees in their natural habitat. There are some interesting forms I've observed in the area.. ranging from riverside "dwarf" specimens with much shorter phyllodes to the more tree like forms with pale flowers. I will get some material to test and hopefully over the coming weeks have some results to share. I will also be testing trees I suspect are negative as this will still help boost our growing encyclopaedia
 

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that was an interesting one acacian, thanks
the usual definition for A floribunda is papery thin phyllodes..
if thick leathery phyllodes are keying in as the same species something seems too broad here..that may well be a longifolia cross..

i can write more when I have time, but some botanists have suggested the whole floribunda/mucronata/longifolia etc definitions have blurry boundaries and could do with a thorough taxonomic re-investigation on a formal level..some believe the inclusion of sophorae with longifolia was not needed..

There's a general divide in botany between so called 'lumpers' (lump them together), and 'splitters' (those who divide species into more categories) ..from a point of view of usefulness in both horticultural variety and phytochemical content, i would sit with the splitters..
 
They weren't thick like longifolia.. but much stiffer and leathery than usual floribunda. I suspect too that it is a hybrid between the two species.. surprised this hasn't been formally recognized as there are what to me seem like obvious intermediaries between the two. I'm convinced Floribunda and Mucronata hybridize and I would say the Mucronata I found active probably fall into that category

Splitters all the way. Lumping to me seems either lazy or poor eyesight/judgement.. in my arrogent opinion of course ;)
 
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