Research Acacia floribunda - Workspace and information

[acacian]

Quick update.. had a fun trip observing the Floribunda in the locality around here. And wow are they variable.. the "dwarf" specimens I found particularly interesting.. The phyllodes were as little as 6cm in length. The flowers around 4cm.. but on a whole the patch just varied a lot. The young plants all looked very typical of what a young Floribunda looks like.. needles close together.. narrow.. with age they went their own course..

The key "lumper" (thanks nen for that phrase) characteristics were all there. Soft papery phyllodes with appressed hairs.. no basal gland. Loose, pale flower heads.. some specimens much more pale than others, and some looser/tighter than others.. the very unique scent they all seem to have

..this tree loves to play by the bonanist's rules while bouncing about the threshold with a frustrating but admirable stoicism.. yet its call is more of a whisper.. and for this reason its one of the more alluring acacias to me. Its always been there.. waiting for us to connect. There is a code to crack with this one.

So I'm afraid I couldn't draw much conclusion on causes of variation other than that the topography was probably having an effect.. it was sloped, rocky, loamy soil. Nearby a river in which you would also find them growing along the edges of and on islands of land. Heading to another area half an hr or so away the phyllodes got softer/papery and the flowers much more pale.. this area was bordering on rainforest. One test on a specimen from here yielded beautiful white circular crystals - assumed to be DMT but I never got any strong effects from it. It had a tryptamine smell though..

In the first rockier, more loamy area the phyllodes were as little as 6cm in length on some specimens.. then walk a few meters to another one and the flowers were paler, the phyllodes longer..

I think Nen could enlighten us as to what could be going on here on a genetic level better than I..

Below are photos of the first group I visited and a bit of the environment too... lets say group A .. the bushier variety growing in the rocky slopes. Group B being the more "classic" Floribunda found at a lower altitude and much more lush environment.. more tree like, narrower phyllodes, paler flowers

the 2nd photo (which is the 3rd specimen down in nthe first photo) I felt the flowers were getting very long.. almost wandering into "Cunningham group" territory. But technically 8cm is within floribunda's range - and the other characteristics also fit the bill.. better than any in the cunningham group... on a side note that is another group that is wierdly ignored but shows great potential. I know that Concurrens in northern NSW is a very good candidate. My friend and I found a stand that had big almost phleb-like phyllodes... they were really cool.. and he got very good results with it.. perhaps he should share that in the main acacia thread

Group B I will do a separate post..

 

[nen888]

Hi acacian..great pics as always

..i’m still pondering floribunda's taxonomic complexities..and when I get more time soon we could discuss genetics possibilities..hybrids etc..and also possible mis-IDs…I'm not convinced that some of those are floribunda

For now, I’m attaching some photos that to me are crudely indicating 2 possible basic types or varieties of A floribunda, and some intermediacy between…but without actual plant samples in hand of them all, it’s not possible to get into taxonomic detail…incl things like which samples are glabrous etc..

However, for utilitarian purposes, such as mentioned earlier, having 2 basic types based on more generalised characteristics can be helpful..

1 & 2 - (from different locations) are what I’ve been loosely calling the ‘type’..as from memory this is what the original ‘lecto-type’ resembled..this form has long, ever so slightly curving, or falcate, phyllodes, and flowers pale, cream, more loosely packed, spikes more interrupted..this is what I was talking about earlier

3 - has short phyllodes, slightly widening in the centre, and flowers deep yellow, in denser spikes and arrangements..

4 - seems slightly intermediate between these two types as far as flowers, but more the second variety (pic3)

I deliberately selected all these pics (except 1) from commercial nurseries, as this indicates horticultural availability and variety, and what is being sold as floribunda..I’m not using very technical description above, am being more general..

But, to me as a plant grower, buying seed, I’d want a clear definition of which of these two ‘looks’ I was getting..afaik these characteristics breed true from seed in these forms pictured

 

[acacian]

Thanks Nen..

I agree about having two general forms of Floribunda botanically recognized..obviously I think it can be fine tuned, as there are crossovers in features between forms... but its a long overdue step in the right direction

The form with the tighter flowers that I have seen are still quite different to that first pic you posted.. Personally I would have strongly leaned towards Acacia Longissima from that first photo, as its flowers are a more pure white than Floribunda's pale/cream. I've actually never seen a Floribunda with flowers that pure white. But then photos often don't do justice.. and like you say its difficult to percieve glabrous texture or appressed hairs in photos. Also on a side note - cameras often make pale flowers look more yellow.. white balance settings should help solve this problem

I seem to have misplaced my two SLR cameras and am kicking myself I may miss documenting this season in the high fidelity I was hoping for..

Also interesting to note that early specimens were referred to by colonial botanist Alan Cunningham as Acacia Intermedia. Also was previously known as Acacia Longifolia subs. Floribunda



Nice photos..

 

[CheeseCat]

Amazing information guys! I’ve been meaning to respond but wasn’t sure what else I could offer that was illuminating.

Here’s some pics of a recent floribunda I found. It’s the wider phyllode type variety but still quite narrow compared to your photos Acacian.

 

[CheeseCat]

CheeseCat.. did you test the tree pictured in the first photo of type 2? Thats very similar to the ones that have worked for me

Acacian, I have attempted to test type 2 with no luck. But it’s highly probable that my extraction method compromised the experiment as I’m still working things out. I’ll give it another shot soon.

 

[CheeseCat]

Hi acacian..great pics as always

..i’m still pondering floribunda's taxonomic complexities..and when I get more time soon we could discuss genetics possibilities..hybrids etc..and also possible mis-IDs…

For now, I’m attaching some photos that to me are crudely indicating 2 possible basic types or varieties of A floribunda, and some intermediacy between…but without actual plant samples in hand of them all, it’s not possible to get into taxonomic detail…incl things like which samples are glabrous etc..

However, for utilitarian purposes, such as mentioned earlier, having 2 basic types based on more generalised characteristics can be helpful..

1 & 2 - (from different locations) are what I’ve been loosely calling the ‘type’..as from memory this is what the original ‘lecto-type’ resembled..this form has long, ever so slightly curving, or falcate, phyllodes, and flowers pale, cream, more loosely packed, spikes more interrupted..this is what I was talking about earlier

3 - has short phyllodes, slightly widening in the centre, and flowers deep yellow, in denser spikes and arrangements..

4 - seems slightly intermediate between these two types as far as flowers, but more the second variety (pic3)

I deliberately selected all these pics (except 1) from commercial nurseries, as this indicates horticultural availability and variety, and what is being sold as floribunda..I’m not using very technical description above, am being more general..

But, to me as a plant grower, buying seed, I’d want a clear definition of which of these two ‘looks’ I was getting..afaik these characteristics breed true from seed in these forms pictured

Interesting Nen, I’ve never seen a floribunda with near white flowers like in your first photo. I also haven’t seen floribunda with deep yellow flowers either. I guess this is probably because in New Zealand the species is less established and perhaps hybridisation is less prevalent. Over the last year or so I have found about 20 floribunda and they almost all exhibit pale lemon/yellow flowers.

 

[CheeseCat]

I’ve actually come to a standstill with A/B extraction. My last attempt resulted in what I thought were crystals after freeze precipitation (using shellite) that quickly melted into condensation leaving me with very little of anything. I’d like to try d-limonene or xylene and follow chocobeastie’s method:

"So if you are extracting into d-limo, and then bring it back into white vinegar, then slowly evaporate the vinegar either in the oven or in a stove, the vinegar will evaporate, but the high heat will convert the spice into a freebase. The result will be a hydroscopic gummy stuff which contains all the jungly elements especially...Then, re-ddisolve that into ethanol, add your herbs and make changa with that."

If anyone can offer some tips/insights for working with floribunda that'd be great! It'd be good to have a recommended tek in this thread I think.

 

[acacian]

just a quick reply for now, but CheeseCat.. Shellite doesn't work well. It does often precipitate crystals but they just seem to melt into watery glubles.. often these extracts are fine and just need several days to try but something like toluene, xyloene or DCM are far more preferable. Especially as they catch any alkaloids which argueably make the extract more unique.. agreed re: the pure white and deep yellow photos. I've also not seen like that.. I thought the 1st photo was more like longissima..

more detailed reply soon

 

[acacian]

i can say that either way the condensation is a shellite thing.. avoid that for sure

Also though, as a photographer I can confirm camera settings play a huge role in the way the colours are represented in your photos.. unfortunately I can't find my SLR but I found playing with the white balance often rectified this. BUt yeah I've never seen that "cheddar cheese" yellow on a floribunda.. usually far more pale.. but then also nto as white as something like longissima

 

[CheeseCat]

Thanks for the shellite advice Acacian. I read in a few other threads that shellite wasn't recommended so will give xylene a go. Hopefully in the next few weeks I'll have some good news to report. I'll be using the phyllodes and twigs from my recent post #24.

 

[CheeseCat]

Check out this iconic floribunda at 3:10. The guy in the video has misidentified it as Acacia cultriformis. Notice the smooth skin bark...

 

[Aum]

Narrow phyllode variety from a nursery

 

[Aum]

I was a little bummed when they arrived to find that they are the narrow ones that judging by previous posts are less active.

I'm in NZ and many of the floribunda I've found in the wild are similar to the last lot of photos CheeseCat uploaded, though i also see a number of the more shrub like ones growing too, often on the roadside.

 

[acacian]

Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater just yet Aum

Floribunda generally looks the same across the board at a young age. Phyllodes are always narrow and closer together.. it is with age that they seem to go in their own direction and in which the "type" is revealed.

At this stage I don't believe we can make any assumptions about seedlings.. I have only observed some very minor differences in the active's offspring to the commercial variety and that is more in phyllode texture.. thats just comparing one tree's offspring to the rest

 

[CheeseCat]

Hey Aum, glad to see someone else here from NZ researching floribunda! A good thing about floribunda is it grows really fast and does well in a pot if you can't get it in the ground. Mine is about 5yrs old now and still thriving. Once I have some land I'll plant it and I'm sure the growth rate will be even better.

 

[Aum]

Ah cheers acacian I was actually thinking after I posted that I might be jumping the gun assuming phyllode size so soon.

And CheeseCat, yeah I was surprised how big they are from nursery just in a .2l pot. I re-potted yesterday in larger pots about 300ml height. Didn't get any photos yet but I made up a nice soil mix up for them seen below the seedling in previous pics.

There was a previous comment on here that said something about plants not reaching full spectrum for 3 years? Was this referring to alkaloid profile?

 

[CheeseCat]

Thanks for the DM, Acacian! I tried to reply but sadly I'm still a new member and can't reply back to you Hopefully that changes soon.

I'm curious what you guys thought about the video link of the floribunda I sent? It's an interesting looking tree. The phyllodes are impressively large and pointy (knife leaf wattle is a very apt name!). Also, the bark is very smooth looking (15yrs old) which is distinctly contrasting to other floribundas (see post #24). I'm wondering if bark type may be a useful diagnostic... Interestingly, the phyllodes look similar to the Type 3 floribunda in my post #10.

 

[acacian]

Ah cheers acacian I was actually thinking after I posted that I might be jumping the gun assuming phyllode size so soon.

And CheeseCat, yeah I was surprised how big they are from nursery just in a .2l pot. I re-potted yesterday in larger pots about 300ml height. Didn't get any photos yet but I made up a nice soil mix up for them seen below the seedling in previous pics.

There was a previous comment on here that said something about plants not reaching full spectrum for 3 years? Was this referring to alkaloid profile?

the broad phyllode "weeper" I have posted a few photos of is the one I am growing.. phyllodes are soft and narrow I'm sure as they get older this will change

 

[acacian]

Thanks for the DM, Acacian! I tried to reply but sadly I'm still a new member and can't reply back to you Hopefully that changes soon.

I'm curious what you guys thought about the video link of the floribunda I sent? It's an interesting looking tree. The phyllodes are impressively large and pointy (knife leaf wattle is a very apt name!). Also, the bark is very smooth looking (15yrs old) which is distinctly contrasting to other floribundas (see post #24). I'm wondering if bark type may be a useful diagnostic... Interestingly, the phyllodes look similar to the Type 3 floribunda in my post #10.

Hey CheeseCat

Yes I did watch it.. the bark type does look very similar to that I was referring to in the OP.. smooth.. brown... lacking the silvery "shine" of the bark on commercially grown varieties.. that is what bark tends to look like on more wild Floribunda for sure. Good find! Bark is difficult to go on alone but the flowers are very pale and the phyllodes quite large.. these in combination paint a promising picture and it indeed is very similar to active specimens I've worked with.. on a hunch I'd say its very likely the type. perhaps that man should test this "cultriformis" and post a part 2

 

[Aum]

Some photos of the scrub type on my travels today. Are these Floribunda?