Acacia + Syrian rue brew, simmer Vs boil + other Q's

[Dan_J]

Hi all,
Glad to finally be a member, been a lurker for a bit.

So I'm from Australia and I got my hands on Acacia acuminata NP root bark, after a couple brews I've gained limited results.

Previous doses have been
AARB. Syrian rue. Results
2.5g. 2.5g. None
5g. 2.5g. None
7.5g. 2.5g. Slight very low dose shroom vibes lasting a short duration

Extra/ interesting info on the 7.5g dose 3-5 hours in, once I felt most to all effects gone I took a straight green sativa (no tobacco) bong rip 50-75% full cone peice. Thereafter I had CEV of fractals and general coloured patterns, while having very clear and directed altered/ hightened consciousness on general self work etc. I am in a daily habit/ ritual of smoking a cone peice of sativa a few hours before bed and doing self work and introspection, but this particular experience was definitely heightened.

P.s this is just extra juicey info as I haven't heard of many positive reports of weed and Aya or weed and acacia

So my method is brew the powered/ shreaded acacia in a bout 1L of filtered water with 3 table spoons of lemon juice for 3hrs topping water up and stirring as needed, then reduced down to about 100-175ml and strained through metal tea strainer.

Syrian rue powered through a spice blender, boiled for 30 min, reduced to 50-100ml, strained and consumed 30 min before the acacia. The same way I consume rue with shrooms.

Now my main question is, will I lose any DMT content by boiling vs simmering?
I figure I don't have to remove any of the fatty oils, tanins etc if I'm not purging?
Is there anything wrong with my method? Or do I need to increase my acacia ratio?

Prep:
Have a normal breakfast, light lunch and skip dinner taking doses at 6-7pm
85kg male


Chime in where you can,
Thanks

 

[downwardsfromzero]

You might want to consider consuming an extra portion of rue with your acacia, starting back with the lowest dose of acacia in order to avoid any harsh surprises. Remember that with ayahuasca the components are traditionally consumed as a single brew - although the second cup is likely to hit you like a freight train. The 'take rue and wait for 30 mins' meme seems to have arisen from people who have swallowed the seeds and thus in that instance the alkaloids must be allowed a little extra time to dissolve in the stomach.

It's also no surprise that cannabis is fairly visual after such a brew. This is fairly well known here. Brews such as yours pretty consistently facilitate an opening up to the more psychedelic side of cannabis.

DMT is sufficiently stable that boiling should not diminish its content in the brew unless you allow the brew to burn on the bottom of the pan. Simmering is safer for that reason.

do I need to increase my acacia ratio?

Just to re-state: take some more rue along with your acacia and likely as not you'll find that the initial low dose of acacia turns out to be sufficient after all. 2.5g rue, wait 30mins, then another 1.0g rue with 2.5g aarb. If that doesn't work, especially for 85kg body weight 2.5g rue is a pretty low dose so nudge up the rue dose until you start to feel something from the rue alone. Only then should you consider raising the aarb dose.

 

[Dan_J]

You might want to consider consuming an extra portion of rue with your acacia, starting back with the lowest dose of acacia in order to avoid any harsh surprises. Remember that with ayahuasca the components are traditionally consumed as a single brew - although the second cup is likely to hit you like a freight train. The 'take rue and wait for 30 mins' meme seems to have arisen from people who have swallowed the seeds and thus in that instance the alkaloids must be allowed a little extra time to dissolve in the stomach.

That makes a lot of sense, will take a lower AARB dose 2-5 minutes after the rue and will experiment further.

Thanks for the direction! :thumb_up:
I could have been wasting alot of time :thumb_dow and acacia

 

[downwardsfromzero]

One more thing, if you've access to the actual A. acuminata NP trees then it's very much better to leave the root bark alone entirely and harvest the phyllodes instead. This saves the tree from getting life-threateningly damaged and helps to keep your investigations more sustainable.

This should probably go without saying, but we very much discourage, in particular, the purchasing of root bark material these days. It's sad to think there are folks out there who will destroy old trees to make a quick buck, but there are and the best way to prevent this is by refusing to buy their product.

Look around at some of the Acacia threads here and you should see that the best time for phyllode harvest is after a long dry spell (or rather, right at the end, before the rains start). Even phyllodes that have already dropped off the tree should serve you well.

(Hopefully you already understood all this and your root bark came from a tree which had already fallen anyhow. Safeguarding nature is more important overall than heedlessly embarking on drug-induced vision quests and these types of experience tend to underline the fact somewhat.)

OK, that's more than enough of a rant - above all I wish you safe journeys and look forward to hearing of your results.

 

[Dan_J]

One more thing, if you've access to the actual A. acuminata NP trees then it's very much better to leave the root bark alone entirely and harvest the phyllodes instead. This saves the tree from getting life-threateningly damaged and helps to keep your investigations more sustainable.

Excuse the late reply i completely missed your 2nd post somehow.
i do respect the view of sustainable cultivation and once i get some seedlings going i will be harvesting the sustainable way with small twigs and leaves however that isn't currently possible.

i'm located in AUS-victoria and there seems to be limited species with rich dmt content or any suppliers that i know of, along with being a newbie to acacia's i didnt feel comfortable with picking leaves and twigs of one in my area that may contain deadly cyanide.
This left me with the only safe option means my only choice was a online supplier from AUS-WA.

i do appreciate your direction and cultivation concerns

 

[Dan_J]

Update:
20g acacia 3.3g Syrian rue taken just before acacia brew, results being average at best.
Only thing I haven't tried is the take 2/3 of rue tea 15 before, then 1/3 of rue tea just before the brew.

With my brewing method I actually reduce the down to about 100-50ml, ONLY straining the ground acacia bark after I reduce.
Could I be losing DMT by brewing some DMT back into the bark while reducing the brew with bark still in it?

If not seems like 30-40+ grams might hit the spot, this bark was harvested in september so I figure it should be rich in dmt content?

I wonder where I can improve :thumb_up:

 

[spyfish]

So my method is brew the powered/ shreaded acacia in a bout 1L of filtered water with 3 table spoons of lemon juice for 3hrs topping water up and stirring as needed, then reduced down to about 100-175ml and strained through metal tea strainer.

Here is your problem.

NEVER strain/filter a reduced brew. Your filtering out your alkaloids.

- Ideally use destilled water and boil in multiple washes (New fresh water every wash), like 4 times 4 hours full on boil. Simmer wont do it. (despite what you may have read)
- Only filter/strain unreduced brew
- collect all the unreduced brew and start reducing, you can lightly boil this but simmer is fine.
- You can also freeze the bark material between washes to improve extraction.

So water gets saturated, and then stops extracting alkaloids which is why distilled water is best (no minerals to "take up space") . So the amount of water is important. For example if i brew 200g bark, I probably end up with 10 liters of reduced brew.

For Aya i find it easier to work with shredded material. Powder gets messy.

20 gram of Rainbow tree for me would be insane. With good bark its active from a couple of gram. But I'm pretty sure its your brewing method. Or you have bad material.

Your rue look good, 3-4 gram 20 min before is fine. 5 min before is also fine. And 20 min boil is enough. Rue is easy and quick. The bark require some more planning and work.

 

[spyfish]

I forgot to mention, dont use lemon juice etc. Use destilled white vinegar, as it will evaporate and not leave any additional taste. Lemon juice will make it taste worse than nessesary

 

[Dan_J]

Here is your problem.

NEVER strain/filter a reduced brew. Your filtering out your alkaloids.

- Ideally use destilled water and boil in multiple washes (New fresh water every wash), like 4 times 4 hours full on boil. Simmer wont do it. (despite what you may have read)
- Only filter/strain unreduced brew
- collect all the unreduced brew and start reducing, you can lightly boil this but simmer is fine.
- You can also freeze the bark material between washes to improve extraction.

thanks for the quick response.
will do four washes at 1 hour each then a final brew in one big pot for 4 hours, mainly as i dont have that much time on hand and i'm not living by my self

current brew as follows:

*step 1 - 0hr - 20g aarb boil for 1hr in 1L of water topping up as needed.
*step 2 - 1hr - then strain brew into 2nd pot for 1hr boil, while aarb that was strained is put into the 1st pot with new water and boiled for 1hr. (1st wash)
*step 3 - 2hr - 2nd pot is done boiling, brew transferred to 3rd larger pot with water topped up, while steps 1 and 2 are repeated. ( 2nd wash)
*step 4 - 3hr - steps 1 through to 3 are repeated. (3rd wash)
*step 5 - 4hr - steps 1 through to 3 are repeated. (4th wash)
*step 6 - 5hr - 2nd pot is done boiling, brew transferred to 3rd larger pot with water topped up, then strain brew from 1st pot into 2nd pot for 1hr boil, bin strained aarb and clean 1st pot etc.
*step 7 - 6hr - 2nd pot is done boiling, brew transferred to 3rd larger pot with water topped up, clean 2nd pot, boil the brew in the 3rd larger pot for 4 hrs, while checking in, stiring and topping up water as needed
*step 8 - 10hr - reduce brew down to 400ML and split into:
-50ML = 2.5g AARB
-150ML = 7.5G AARB
-200ML = 10G AARB

i'm currently at step 5, will report back with results when i have the time

 

[spyfish]

Curious to hear how it went....

 

[Dan_J]

so figured i'd finally report back, late response as i was trying to do research on 1st time ayahuasca experiences ( have smoked dmt/ changa without breakthrough before) in comparison to mine.

so once i finished the brew it was alot more darker which seemed to be the right indicator that it was brewed right this time round. note: i didnt use lemon or distilled white vinegar ( just had normal salad type white vinegar ) so i'm sure i could have extracted a tad more dmt if added.

took 3g syrian rue then 2.5g AARB brew just under 50ml.
Results:
- no CEV/OEV at all
- slightly altered state
- no purge
- at about 1hr in i had a big energy dump which lasted for about 20-30 min which tapered off after another 30 min or so.

energy dump- i've experienced a similar thing on 5g syrian rue tea with 3g of shrooms, almost 'kundalini' like ( not that i do any kundalini type practices) burst of energy that cant be contained. i guess to a lesser extent i experience the same thing on shrooms normally just at a very very small fraction.

on the AARB i had to do Bodywork by moving my hands and arms (while in bed) in a motion kinda like a crude tai-chi, just in a very fast motion to settle this energy down.

- as the energy tapered off i was left with a slightly altered state which eventually tapered at the 4-5 hr mark

conclusion:
i cant say i took anything anyway from this experience to be honest, no introspective insights, no fear or shadow work like realizations and not a single visual/ fractal. the energy dump may be working at a subconscious or even unconscious level, yet 2 weeks later i cant tell the difference.

Question:
is this typical of a first time experience where not much is gained and you need to go back, again and again for some to get results?
due to the 'energy dump' experience i would be hesitant to take a double does, unless some how that was a one off or wont exceed that level of intensity.

for me personally it seems that my friends can breakthrough on smoked DMT with less, where as i have better smoking technique, inhale more and am left sitting here paralyzed with no journey when trying to break through.
i've had threshold experiences before just no breakthrough, i'm current on a 7-8 month break from smoked dmt/changa

any answers help, thanks alot guys :thumb_up:

 

[Dan_J]

I wonder if this could be a NMT 'trip' report ?

 

[Legarto Rey]

Anahuasca tek is tricky. Learn your personal RIMA. Rue is more ergonomic, or extracted harmalas. Ground root, ACRB or MHRB as light works well. Ample water, slight acid. Two, 30 min brews is good. ALWAYS, filter, then reduce. Good Chacruna is hard to have.

Not sure why the super conservative weights are suggested, for an EXPERIENCED traveler? MHRB, ACRB or Chali...10g. Chacruna(if you can find any decent)30g.

Now, if you're doing big dose Caapi, or Rue, timidity re "light" is prudent. All of this lore is exceedingly well documented on Nexus, and elsewhere. Practice, mindfully. No wonder "chemicals" are the default. The feral nature of visionary "plant work" discourages the less ambitious!

Peace

 

[Dan_J]

Hi legarto, thanks for your input.

In all honesty 10g acacia from my current brew would be very very uncomfortable due to the 'energy dump' I experienced on the 2.5g dose. Having such an experience at 4 times the intensity would be something else.

So your saying I only have to brew for 1 hour?

Only ever had a hand full of threshold dmt experiences with no breakthrough and never tried Aya before, shrooms are the go usually 3-5 grams for a dose and I've consumed 2-3 ounces in my life

Main thing that's holding me back is that nobody has confirmed that the 'energy dump' I've experienced is normal ?

I'm questioning my brew method, or the time of harvest which was said to be September in Australia, leaves look just like acuminata NP, but who knows maybe the bark is off another acacia.
Might try a brew just on the leaves at some point.
I may have let one wash burn if I remember correctly, i wouldn't have thought that would ruin the other 3 washes but I did add the burnt flush ( still looked the same so thought it didn't do much damage, just added more water and redid that wash again) to the total brew.

I have heard acuminata can have varied results, so not sure if that is correct in this case.
Might have to post a new thread to get some answers on the 'energy dump'.....

 

[josboaz]

Everybody jumping on the DMT-I-need-visions-right-now-bandwagon.

Oi mate take a step back, and do as you was told by a fellow member, first work with Harmala so you know how much you need to take. boiling 2,5gr is nuts!
I normally brew 25Gr and reduce it to 150ml and take a small sip, wait 1h and if needed I can take a few more sips.

What I'm trying to say is that you probably do not know how much Harmala you need to take, based on everything what I have read so far. It seems that your Harmala dosage is too low.
Brew 6gr or 8gr of Harmala for 30min and reduce it to 150ml and drink the whole cup and check if you get any effects of Harmala alone.

 

[downwardsfromzero]

Everybody jumping on the DMT-I-need-visions-right-now-bandwagon.

Oi mate take a step back, and do as you was told by a fellow member, first work with Harmala so you know how much you need to take. boiling 2,5gr is nuts!
I normally brew 25Gr and reduce it to 150ml and take a small sip, wait 1h and if needed I can take a few more sips.

What I'm trying to say is that you probably do not know how much Harmala you need to take, based on everything what I have read so far. It seems that your Harmala dosage is too low.
Brew 6gr or 8gr of Harmala for 30min and reduce it to 150ml and drink the whole cup and check if you get any effects of Harmala alone.

6g to 8g rue seed is likely to be a bit much, at least with them unroasted. Within an hour to 90 minutes, many people would find it difficult to stand up after taking such a dose. Depends on the seeds, perhaps, and the body weight of the person concerned but for most of us I'm fairly confident that 8g would put one at risk of falling over.

Seeing as you're in favour of taking your time, why not spend several days or weeks experiencing the effects of individually measured doses of rue seed brews? Doing this I found that my threshold dose for dizziness (for that particular batch, at least!) was 2.9 grams of raw seeds, boiled three times to extract. 2.8 grams produced an oneirophoric (for want of a better word) effect but no dizziness. Of course, this wasn't tested for its MAOI efficacy - and since then I've used 7 grams medium-dark roasted seeds which turns out to be just over half as potent as unroasted and with a greater proportion of harmine versus harmaline making for a clearer head and less equilibristic disturbance. It was unquestionably sufficient to activate oral DMT, and it does correspond with your suggested dosage range. Just roast the seeds.

(OP was nearly three years ago, btw!)