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Acid Cook Vs Warm Acidic Soaks
- Thread starter mew
- Start date
I wonder if dr sister has tried a side by side or was taking theoretically.
I would love someone to show the results of a side-by-side to really tell for sure if its enough for warm soaks.
THP is good but it uses a LOT of water, which you'd have to reduce, and I find reducing water a pain in the ass, personally.
I would love someone to show the results of a side-by-side to really tell for sure if its enough for warm soaks.
THP is good but it uses a LOT of water, which you'd have to reduce, and I find reducing water a pain in the ass, personally.
Under the Pressure Cooker thread, it is understood that the heat is an attempt to break down the cell walls of the plant material.
In research of San Pedro, El Maestro, its recommended to freeze the cacti to help burst cell walls. Erowid Tek
Would the cell walls of MHRB be any different?
Thoughts:
Cacti have flexible cells (water bags) that burst easily when frozen.
MHRB have more rigid cells.
Hypothesis: Freezing MHRB, instead of adding heat, during the acid bath stage will provide similar yield.
More updates/experiment results to come.
In research of San Pedro, El Maestro, its recommended to freeze the cacti to help burst cell walls. Erowid Tek
Would the cell walls of MHRB be any different?
Thoughts:
Cacti have flexible cells (water bags) that burst easily when frozen.
MHRB have more rigid cells.
Hypothesis: Freezing MHRB, instead of adding heat, during the acid bath stage will provide similar yield.
More updates/experiment results to come.
endlessness wrote:
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..me too..i find reducing acid/water solutions even more of a bore..that's why i tend towards ethanol (in which, of course, most alks are highly soluble)
.
Bump!
Has anyone done a side-by-side with acid boils vs. warm acid baths?
Has anyone done a side-by-side with acid boils vs. warm acid baths?
I am in no way shape or form a voice of authority on this; but, I have done extractions where I boil for 3x3 and toss bark after. I have also done extractions with just a warm soak for 8hours and I can say that the soak was higher yield. Whether or not it was attached to the fact that I didn't toss the bark or that I soaked instead of boiled. I can't say. Also the two extractions were different in other areas also. For example the boil had no Salting and the soaked version did.
Also note that this was done with ACRB.
Just my two cents.
Also note that this was done with ACRB.
Just my two cents.
The Day Tripper
Rennasauce Man
In my expirence, i've gotten almost identical yeilds from doing a 5x 1hr low simmer slightly acidic (acetic acid) cook on powdered mhrb, and room temp soaks/decanting for 24-72hr, after a warm water heating in the microwave, doing approx 4 250ml pulls with the same solvent (distilled water:vinegar at approx .1% acetic acid concentrations 100ml water:2ml vinegar). Freezing between each pull as well.
Personally, i like the non cooking way for mhrb, same with cactus, but i use isopropyl instead so theres no swelling, and obviously dont reduce it on a stovetop. Caapi goes in the crock pot, always. I'll brew caapi for 3 days in a crock pot, and freeze the vine every night after straining the pull.
IF i don't have to sit there and watch it while it cooks for hours and hours, i don't mind spending a few reducing the liquid. And even then, nylon mesh, pyrex rectangular baking dish, and a hot dry day, you don't even have to use a stove to reduce it. And you can get a nice resin, without worrying about burning it, either by drying without a stovetop, or taking a reduced syrup form a stovetop reduction, and baking it in a pyrex dish at 150F until dry.
That way, you just dissolve the resin from ~200g of bark powder, in about 3 100ml boiling distilled water/vinegar pulls at ~1% acidity, let it decant in the fridge, filter with a vac/buchner, and you can completely emulsify limo/that basified 2nd solution from your resin, since theres no particulate, and you only use about 5g of koh/naoh for every 100g of bark you started with. Seperates fully, and gives a nice semi-pure fumarate to 69ron drytek with acetone/fasa to pure fumarates. Or use heptane and freeze-x for freebase.
Got a little off topic there, but needless to say, i think though it might take longer, its almost easier/less work, and the same or better yeilds when you don't do a standard acid cook vs, long acid soaks. So much easier to filter when you decant it first, and you don't have to man a stove top for hours and hours. Though you have to plan ahead since it can take a week just to get your highly concentrated, but extremely well filtered base solution to np pull of with, alternatively you could do a 69ron lime drytek on that resin with caoh, and proceed a # of different ways using various solvents to get fumarate or freebase in pure form.
However, use distilled water, distilled vinegar, and its a good practice to boil the bark at least once, as well as freezing it after it decants and you pour off your pull. I've had one extraction go south due to contamination (mold) because i did not sterilize the bark/water before letting it sit undisturbed for a few days.
I rarely use the stovetop for extractions now a days, save for redissolving resin in minimal water, or reducing combined filtered roomtemp acid soaks from mhrb, or dissolving cactus iso resin in acidic water so i can limo/hcl salt the mesc out.
Personally, i like the non cooking way for mhrb, same with cactus, but i use isopropyl instead so theres no swelling, and obviously dont reduce it on a stovetop. Caapi goes in the crock pot, always. I'll brew caapi for 3 days in a crock pot, and freeze the vine every night after straining the pull.
IF i don't have to sit there and watch it while it cooks for hours and hours, i don't mind spending a few reducing the liquid. And even then, nylon mesh, pyrex rectangular baking dish, and a hot dry day, you don't even have to use a stove to reduce it. And you can get a nice resin, without worrying about burning it, either by drying without a stovetop, or taking a reduced syrup form a stovetop reduction, and baking it in a pyrex dish at 150F until dry.
That way, you just dissolve the resin from ~200g of bark powder, in about 3 100ml boiling distilled water/vinegar pulls at ~1% acidity, let it decant in the fridge, filter with a vac/buchner, and you can completely emulsify limo/that basified 2nd solution from your resin, since theres no particulate, and you only use about 5g of koh/naoh for every 100g of bark you started with. Seperates fully, and gives a nice semi-pure fumarate to 69ron drytek with acetone/fasa to pure fumarates. Or use heptane and freeze-x for freebase.
Got a little off topic there, but needless to say, i think though it might take longer, its almost easier/less work, and the same or better yeilds when you don't do a standard acid cook vs, long acid soaks. So much easier to filter when you decant it first, and you don't have to man a stove top for hours and hours. Though you have to plan ahead since it can take a week just to get your highly concentrated, but extremely well filtered base solution to np pull of with, alternatively you could do a 69ron lime drytek on that resin with caoh, and proceed a # of different ways using various solvents to get fumarate or freebase in pure form.
However, use distilled water, distilled vinegar, and its a good practice to boil the bark at least once, as well as freezing it after it decants and you pour off your pull. I've had one extraction go south due to contamination (mold) because i did not sterilize the bark/water before letting it sit undisturbed for a few days.
I rarely use the stovetop for extractions now a days, save for redissolving resin in minimal water, or reducing combined filtered roomtemp acid soaks from mhrb, or dissolving cactus iso resin in acidic water so i can limo/hcl salt the mesc out.
Dedao & The Day Tripper,
Thank you both for your replies.
I too feel that warm soaks are really the way to go.
Thank You!
Thank you both for your replies.
I too feel that warm soaks are really the way to go.
Thank You!
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