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Acid extraction

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desultoryendeavor

Rising Star
With the acid extraction part of a/b teks I have seen different methods.


Repeated freezing and thawing

Repeated heating and cooling

Long period of soaking at room temperature


Is any method more effective over the others?

Is it worth doing a combination of some/all of the methods?
 
desultoryendeavor said:
With the acid extraction part of a/b teks I have seen different methods.


Repeated freezing and thawing

Repeated heating and cooling

Long period of soaking at room temperature


Is any method more effective over the others?

Is it worth doing a combination of some/all of the methods?
Click to expand...
You missed out sonication and microwaving ;)

They all have their pros and cons depending on your exact goals and specifications, and - yes - it's possible to concatenate some of the methods.
It would probably be helpful to you if you were to look into exactly why each of the methods might be applied, and what specific action special to each particular kind of extraction technique might be useful to a given situation. For example, freezing helps to break cell walls of plant material so that alkaloids will be released more readily during a subsequent, usually wet, process.

The repeated heating and cooling involves fresh acidic water each time to maximise the amount of alkaloids that dissolve from the plant material.

Room temperature soaks are especially suitable for people who aren't in a special hurry, and have a relative advantage of minimal energy consumption compared to most other methods which possibly makes up for the slowness. Lower extraction temperatures may result in a cleaner initial extract too. In the case of MHRB, this would result in the extraction of far lower quantities of tannins, which would otherwise crash out from a hot brew on cooling, resulting in a slightly inconvenient sludge.

Further details on all these aspects and more can be found throughout the forum and wiki.
 
Thanks for the reply. I'll probably go the long extraction at room temperature if it just as effective as any of the other methods.

Is there a preferred acid using this method?
 
desultoryendeavor said:
Thanks for the reply. I'll probably go the long extraction at room temperature if it just as effective as any of the other methods.

Is there a preferred acid using this method?
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Acetic acid (white vinegar) usually wins the vote on grounds of convenience alone.

Try looking into "THP", it may save you a bit of time.

The Herbal Percolator (THP) extraction method

The percolation method is a very simple and effective way of preparing teas from botanical materials such as caapi and mimosa. Although the basic principle of the percolation column is similar to the way most people brew their coffee, it does not require cooking. The percolation method was...
forum.dmt-nexus.me forum.dmt-nexus.me

Using "The Herbal Percolator" for MHRB Extractions

I have been searching and can't find any results directly relating the use of The Herbal Percolator during a standard A/B MHRB extraction. It seems that 140 degree water of pH 2-4 (Phosphoric, Acetic or Citric) run through The Herbal Percolator would be a very successful and efficient way to...
forum.dmt-nexus.me forum.dmt-nexus.me

Reading through a bit, it seems you could even brew the bark in an ordinary, old-school coffee percolator. Long, room temperature soaks would carry a small risk of going mouldy. Perhaps I should have mentioned that!
 
If the DMT could be extracted into water without using acid, after filtering would less base be needed to bring the pH to the right level? Does reducing the volume of water by evaporating lower the amount of base needed to bring the pH to the right level?
 
desultoryendeavor said:
If the DMT could be extracted into water without using acid, after filtering would less base be needed to bring the pH to the right level? Does reducing the volume of water by evaporating lower the amount of base needed to bring the pH to the right level?
Click to expand...
Is there a particular reason that you're wanting to minimise the amount of base used?

Acid extraction

With the acid extraction part of a/b teks I have seen different methods. Repeated freezing and thawing Repeated heating and cooling Long period of soaking at room temperature Is any method more effective over the others? Is it worth doing a combination of some/all of the methods?
forum.dmt-nexus.me forum.dmt-nexus.me

Evaporating the solution down will not change the amount of base required to deprotonate the DMT, unless there was some kind of volatile acid present in excess of the amount needed to combine with the DMT.

Are you planning to take dissolved carbon dioxide into account as well?
 
I don't know very much about this. I was hoping to see if there was a way to reduce the amount of lye I would have to use in an extraction. I'd be happy to sacrifice yield and increase time and steps needed for this.
 
I've seen on here the use of a pressure cooker during this stage and might try that way. Would a freeze thaw cycle before be worth it or the pressure cooker is enough alone?

See this in that thread as well

'With MHRB it's not strictly necessary to add acid as the tannins and other organic acids which are present serve that purpose at PC temperatures anyhow.'

Is there no advantage to using acid then if going this route?
 
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Addition of acid may be mildly advantageous in helping keep the DMT in solution once the tannins precipitate as the brew cools down. It's more of an issue if you're straining out the solids, as in a classic A/B. Adding lye to the whole mixture (the so-called A2B) would mean this potential source of losses would be eliminated, but you'd need a little more lye to take account of the neutralisatimn with the tannins as well as the added acid.

STB uses more lye in order to break down the cell walls and release more DMT. This effect is also achieved by the (-acid) PC cooks. Horses for courses, one might say.
 
how well might an emersible ultrasonic cleaner work? its hard to tell how strong they are though, in terms of efficiency compared to a bath since theres less noise. i know its no replacement for a proper sonicator, i just have this for cleaning glassware, but, i get the feeling since its in there with the bark it might work better? wheras a bath would just get totally muffled by the mass of the bark
 
drpotato said:
how well might an emersible ultrasonic cleaner work? its hard to tell how strong they are though, in terms of efficiency compared to a bath since theres less noise. i know its no replacement for a proper sonicator, i just have this for cleaning glassware, but, i get the feeling since its in there with the bark it might work better? wheras a bath would just get totally muffled by the mass of the bark
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Definitely worth a try, I doubt it would hurt.
 
im still aiming for my first successful extract, so, experimentation isnt on the table currently, but if someone else had done it, it wouldnt be an experiment anymore :p
 
drpotato said:
im still aiming for my first successful extract, so, experimentation isnt on the table currently, but if someone else had done it, it wouldnt be an experiment anymore :p
Click to expand...
Ah, more precisely - I've seen reports of it being used successfully even if any actual benefit was moderate. There's one enthusiastic report that shows up when searching thread titles with "ultrasonic"

Search

forum.dmt-nexus.me forum.dmt-nexus.me
This appears right at the top:

highest yield yet!!!!! ultrasonic cleaner

ok so i decided to make a diy drill stirrer, and that worked great! but i also made use of my ultrasonic cleaner!!!!!!!! im doing cybs a/b but i use my ultrasonic cleaner throughout the whole process and the clean up is AMAZING! i made a makeshift lid on my ultrasonic cleaner just wide and long...
forum.dmt-nexus.me forum.dmt-nexus.me
 
Transform said:
Ah, more precisely - I've seen reports of it being used successfully even if any actual benefit was moderate. There's one enthusiastic report that shows up when searching thread titles with "ultrasonic"

Search

forum.dmt-nexus.me forum.dmt-nexus.me
This appears right at the top:

highest yield yet!!!!! ultrasonic cleaner

ok so i decided to make a diy drill stirrer, and that worked great! but i also made use of my ultrasonic cleaner!!!!!!!! im doing cybs a/b but i use my ultrasonic cleaner throughout the whole process and the clean up is AMAZING! i made a makeshift lid on my ultrasonic cleaner just wide and long...
forum.dmt-nexus.me forum.dmt-nexus.me
Click to expand...
oh cool thanks.

by the way, earlier it was mentioned that tannins crashing out could be problematic. For me its not, since i have a vacuum filter, however, is there much risk of much DMT being lost? since i need to put my reduced sludgy soup into the sep funnel, i need it to be all liquid. Im also using phosphoric acid this time around just because people have reported success with acuminata with it, im pretty much stacking maximum DMT stripping/efficiency methods and then trimming back parts until i figure out what is really neccesary, so, for the time being, im going for maximum dmt out, even at the cost of a highly contaminated base pull
 
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