After a demon snatched my soul and tortured it for an eternity, I had to take a break from the spice

[Dr Psychonaut]

10 years ago I experimented with vaporised DMT over 35 sessions that I documented thoroughly. The "experiment" ended after a harrowing experience that scared me off the substance for many years.

Given there were a number of warning signs leading up to the traumatic encounter that I ignored, I thought I would outline my experiences here as a word of caution.

When you enter into a world to which we have little to no understanding of, you must fully accept that if things were to "go wrong", no one on this earth has the skillset or understanding to solve the problem. This was the realisation of Dr Rick Strassman in his research on the compound, and it was this sudden realisation on my final encounter, that led me to take time away from the compound.

This was the course of events that led up to the most traumatic event of my life:

⦁ The first dozen or so trips were remarkably beautiful, exciting, and nothing short of mindblowing. The predominant colour scheme of these trips was pink.

⦁ I then had two true "breakthroughs" that were both harrowing and revelatory. All I could recall was having been given the total knowledge of the universe, only to come back to a physical body and brain that was not compatible with such knowledge

⦁ My trips then began to get darker as malevolent entities came on the scene. Some had snakes for arms, some vomited black tar, another looked like some kind of swamp monster. They all had this way of trying to mesmerize and pull me in. The predominant colour scheme of these trips was a deep red.

⦁ Perhaps a mistake of mine was choosing to associate with these entities. I remember being friendly with them and thinking "these guys ain't so bad". They seemed friendly enough. At times I was aware of large wise beings watching over me with apparent concern, but I disregarded the concern.

⦁ Most of my trips then followed the same format of a recurring theme. It began with me nurturing something beautiful, only for it to turn into something putrid, disgusting, and feeling that I needed to get rid of this thing. It was like evidence I had to hide - I didn't want anyone to know I had it. I would then get stuck in this loop where I'd go to throw this horrible "thing" away, but then wonder if I might need it later. My mind would go back and forth in an eternal to-and-fro of insanity. I would usually feel a choking sensation towards the end of the trip, and feel like I needed to cough up a swarm of locusts (strange I know, but that’s the best description I have).

⦁ My final harrowing experience then occurred. Immediately upon inhalation my soul was snatched by a malevolent being with inconceivable force. I was beaten and tortured for what felt like an eternity, with a strong feeling that the more I suffered the greater the satisfaction of this almighty abuser was. The same choking sensation persisted throughout, and it felt as if this being was physically strangling me/putting something down my throat and making me choke. This sensation persisted for several hours following the trip.

I have two working theories for the experience:

1. Vulnerability theory: My openness to, and interactions with malevolent entities in prior trips left me psychically "open to attack". Some of those prior trips involved the concurrent use of alcohol or benzodiazepines, which may have lowered my inhibitions to avoid such entities.

2. Wrathful deity theory: I was being given numerous warning signs that my explorations were resembling an addictive and unhealthy relationship with the substance. This also mirrored my issues with addiction at the time. Because I refused to listen and continued using/abusing the substance, I was "taught a lesson" by a wrathful deity - Buddhist concept of enlightened beings who take on wrathful forms to help lead sentient beings to enlightenment.

I would love to hear any other theories, or similar experiences. I have since used DMT again in combination with ketamine and had some remarkably beuatiful, oceanic experiences, so haven't forever sworn off it. But I have a rightful respect for the power of the compound, and will never again abuse it as I did.

 

[Squidfayce]

Have you considered possible underlying mental health conditions?

Edit - I don't mean for that to sound inflamitory, just wondering if you've considered that possibility.

 

[Tomtegubbe]

Thank you for sharing your experience.

Remember Pinocchio from 1940? Pinocchio is extremely open minded but also unfortunately naive and decides to follow the two ragged bandits with the mentality "I guess these people are okay".

I think maturity and masterity in life requires honing your critical mind so that you retain your curiosity and openness but keep your autonomy and don't allow yourself to be pushed around against your will.

You are vulnerable in the DMT world. You can have amazing insights, but it can also fuel vanity and unhealthy curiosity. There are signs to help you navigate. First of all you may get stuck on the visual level, which I believe is there for beginners to not inquire further. Once you go deeper the jesters begin to appear and I believe they are gatekeepers. Encountering them requires you to stand straight and reflect your motives so you don't get laughed at. I'm quite thankful for them even though I try to act so that I don't need to meet them.

Then there is the hyperslap / lockout which I believe exists for your own good.

Even with these protective mechanisms I believe there is a real risk of getting psychologically and spiritually hurt in the DMT world if you just keep on going and ignore your inner voice.

In the film Pinocchio needs to grow courage, unselfishness and the ability to distinguish right from wrong in order to become a real boy. The DMT world is full of tests of this kind in my opinion. It is harsh but also forgiving in a sense that usually if you fail the test you just cannot proceed and need to come back later when you have learned your lesson. But it's also a real spiritual quest which can go wrong if you follow wrong motives in your heart.

In Christian theology the devil is "God's devil". That is, even though the devil is malevolent, he serves a higher purpose in God's Providence. So I think both your points may be correct in a sense. You were given a lesson by a nasty entity, but in the big picture it was something that gave you an opportunity to grow.

Thank you for sharing!

 

[ms_manic_minxx]

Thank you for sharing. These are wise words of caution and it's valuable to have accounts of how serious interactions with the molecule can be.

To me, a lot of what you describe sounds like various types of negative energies that are purged during Ayahuasca ceremonies. The black tar is called "panema." It can be terrifying when you encounter it, but it's actually a really common thing.

Which leads me to question - do you care to share more about the nuances of your set and setting? You mention struggling with addiction. This could definitely impact that psychological element of set and setting.

I too took a decade off from psychedelics. Upon my return to them, I worked with a therapist and found it invaluable. The therapy and the combination of psychedelic revelations played off each other. Therapy helps me to integrate, and also to solve some of the riddles given to me by the other side. Then I am armed with a new kind of awareness when I return. IMHO more efficient than my experiences with ~just~ therapy or ~just~ psychedelics. It speeds through the process of sorting through my own darkness.

Finally, have you ever considered harmalas, or a proper Aya ceremony with a shaman? Harmalas slow the experience down and help to "translate" the DMT experience. If anyone on earth is qualified to deal with these confrontations, it is probably a shaman. All humans are fallible, though, and you probably want to choose wisely.

I'm reading Ayahuasca in My Blood by Peter Gorman right now. He describes some horrifying entity encounters that are similar to this. He says when you see these beings, to ask if they are your teacher. If they are not there to teach you, they will leave.

I think arming yourself with both modern and ancient wisdom can be invaluable if you plan to travel very deep.

I hope you are doing better now, and thank you for sharing.

 

[Dr Psychonaut]

Have you considered possible underlying mental health conditions?

Edit - I don't mean for that to sound inflamitory, just wondering if you've considered that possibility.

Well I work in mental health so I’m always looking for underlying mental health issues! In my case the most prominent issue was that of addiction, and for me that fit with the theme of a lot of my trips. Though part of the final trip did take me back to childhood physical trauma from an older brother. I imagine it all would of make a lot more sense if using harmalas or ayahuasca.

 

[Dr Psychonaut]

You are vulnerable in the DMT world. You can have amazing insights, but it can also fuel vanity and unhealthy curiosity. There are signs to help you navigate. First of all you may get stuck on the visual level, which I believe is there for beginners to not inquire further. Once you go deeper the jesters begin to appear and I believe they are gatekeepers. Encountering them requires you to stand straight and reflect your motives so you don't get laughed at. I'm quite thankful for them even though I try to act so that I don't need to meet them.

Then there is the hyperslap / lockout which I believe exists for your own good.

Thank you for these wise words. Many of my quests were not in the best set and setting, and were without clear intent. Rather, just a curiosity that served as the perfect excuse to take explorations as often as I could. The first time I observed malevolent entities, I was under the influence of benzodiazepines. Given their disinhibiting effect, this may have explained why I recklessly associated with dark entities I would of perhaps otherwise steered clear of. As the trip ended I would frequently see these entities quarreling with and assaulting each other as I watched with a detached curiosity. The idea of “God’s devil” makes sense, in that ultimately the most horrific events are those that spark the most spiritual growth. In my case it led me to have a newfound respect for all psychedelics.

 

[Dr Psychonaut]

To me, a lot of what you describe sounds like various types of negative energies that are purged during Ayahuasca ceremonies. The black tar is called "panema." It can be terrifying when you encounter it, but it's actually a really common thing.

Which leads me to question - do you care to share more about the nuances of your set and setting? You mention struggling with addiction. This could definitely impact that psychological element of set and setting.

Thanks for your wisdom =) I was unaware of the existence of “panema”, and this very much sounds like what I encountered. It felt that it needed to be purged, but the short-lived effect of vaporized DMT meant this wasn’t possible. As for the set and setting I would often be under the influence of other substances, and there were aspects of my life at the time I wasn’t happy about. So that probably had a part to play.

Combining therapy with psychedelics is an area of great interest to me, and given my partner is a clinical psychologist I feel this would be something I will explore in the future. And I’ll definitely check out the book =)

 

[Seeingisbelieving]

LISTEN TO THIS PODCAST PLEASE!!!

I posted a similar thread the other day...here.
I'm sorry but psychotic breaks do happen even to people with no history of mental illness.





I'm sorry you had a negative experience but the sad truth of psychedelics is.. They are not ALL SUNSHINE AND RAINBOWS! If you are still creating theories after so many years to explain a psychotic episode ,I would honestly suggest talking to a therapist ,not an online drug forum . I have experienced the magical thinking you describe and I am glad I had some good people to talk me down.

ps If anyone wants to truly believe that dmt is magic and allows you to see gods, demons and angels just know that I know many people who report similar experiences dealing with methamphetamine psychosis.

 

[Voidmatrix]

Greetings Friend,

Thank you for your post. It highlights (imo) the necessity for discipline and reverence in these endeavours.

I had my first three breakthroughs the same night. My fourth was a few weeks later, at which point an entity told me to not go so hard with the spice. I didn't listen. That same day, once back from my journey, I blasted off several other people in the room. Noticing there was still some in the bowl and "not wanting to waste it," I cashed the bowl. I was sent to nefarious and decrepit realm of derelict beings. It cause an eight year hiatus.

From what I've read and heard from others, it's usually a poor experience in one way or another have alcohol in one's system during these experiences.

Do you think that maybe they were highlighting and encouraging an engagement with what you feel is substance abuse? Perhaps try dmt after being fasted and with no other drugs in your system?

I commend you in your efforts, growth, and bravery.

One love

 

[Th3_tRuTh]

That's intense. Thank you for sharing your experiences. It's reports like these that keep me on the straight and narrow so to speak. They help me to maintain a healthy sense of fear and respect for this molecule. I am constantly checking myself, always doing growth work, and even though I started off with pretty regular sub-BT dose usage, I have tapered off significantly because of some close calls. My last sub-BT trip manifested a shadow part in the form of an angry entity. I could tell it was a reflection of me based on how I knew it. I could feel the anger and it's form was nothing like entities I have encountered so far, and was more like energy with a face. Also, my guide entity has no real "face", nor have any of the entities I have encountered thus far. This one had a very angry face and I knew it like I know myself so I took that experience and began to do some more parts and shadow work. After some healing experiences this week, I feel like I'm ready for my next deep journey. Thankk you again for sharing.

Also, thank you ms_manic_minxx for your insights. Every time I come across one of your comments, I receive a nice nugget of wisdom that is absolutely relevant to my current path and recent experiences.

Love and light, y'all.

 

[grimlid]

LISTEN TO THIS PODCAST PLEASE!!!

I posted a similar thread the other day...here.
I'm sorry but psychotic breaks do happen even to people with no history of mental illness.





I'm sorry you had a negative experience but the sad truth of psychedelics is.. They are not ALL SUNSHINE AND RAINBOWS! If you are still creating theories after so many years to explain a psychotic episode ,I would honestly suggest talking to a therapist ,not an online drug forum .

I talk to my ptsd counsellor about any significant psychedelic experiences. Hes good at helping me see the root cause or correlation to my life. I love to be open with someone whos only interest is in helping and not judging me. Im happy to say that his theories are usually similar to mine though I always allow him to give me his opinion before voicing my own.

 

[Tomtegubbe]

LISTEN TO THIS PODCAST PLEASE!!!

I listened the beginning. I was not too enthusiastic about listening to the graphic details of the crime. In general I think it's not a good idea to feed your mind with such images. Such things can increase the risk of unfounded paranoia.

Anyway, it's always good to remind that the tools don't do the work for you and you have to have the patience to master them and your own mind to prevent harm.

 

[dragonrider]

I think your own suggestion that this had to do with your problems with an addiction or maybe multiple addictions, is probably spot on.

Addiction is actually a lot like a demon snatching your soul and torturing it.

 

[Seeingisbelieving]

LISTEN TO THIS PODCAST PLEASE!!!

I listened the beginning. I was not too enthusiastic about listening to the graphic details of the crime. In general I think it's not a good idea to feed your mind with such images. Such things can increase the risk of unfounded paranoia.

Anyway, it's always good to remind that the tools don't do the work for you and you have to have the patience to master them and your own mind to prevent harm.

I'm glad that the majority of the people posting are suggesting therapy or at least admitting you are seeing a therapist. YOU GUYS ARE AWESOME!!
Regarding the graphic natures of the crime. What did you expect? You do know that the animals you eat are gutted and cooked the same way. That incident was not isolated.


Do a quick google search about people "flying" on psilocybin mushrooms or ripping others hearts out on lsd and if you truly want to get dark google suicide and psychedelic substances. It's actually a fairly common phenomenon. I am not saying that the psychedelics themselves are causing these experiences but social, interpersonal and other outside stressors contribute to the psychedelic experience in a HUGE WAY. I'm glad you have suggested that "mastering" the psychedelic substances is possible. I suggest creating a thread detailing how you have mastered the substance and your own mind. I think it would make for an interesting read.

Thank you for your time and know that I am posting about these things as a harm reduction method. I do not mean any harm and am not suggesting that these negative things happen to everyone.

 

[Tomtegubbe]

I'm glad you have suggested that "mastering" the psychedelic substances is possible. I suggest creating a thread detailing how you have mastered the substance and your own mind. I think it would make for an interesting read.

I think it's very important that drugs including psychedelics are not the main focus in life. I have a job in which I try my best to be a better coworker, I have a nice home I want to keep tidy and welcoming. I care about my parents and my family, give and get love. I do see a therapist, too.

I feel psychedelics can help you with such things, but they can also be counterproductive. Going constantly for the "heroic" ghost train trips can alter your psyche in bad way. Taking small amounts at the time, sharing the experience with like-minded friends and directing your mind to the things you feel vibrate positively can help you grow as a person.

I like to listen to icaro songs because they have appropriate reverence for these powerful tools. It's very important to cultivate respectful and mindful attitude towards yourself, others and everything you feed your body and mind with.

 

[Voidmatrix]

I'm glad you have suggested that "mastering" the psychedelic substances is possible. I suggest creating a thread detailing how you have mastered the substance and your own mind. I think it would make for an interesting read.

I think it's very important that drugs including psychedelics are not the main focus in life. I have a job in which I try my best to be a better coworker, I have a nice home I want to keep tidy and welcoming. I care about my parents and my family, give and get love. I do see a therapist, too.

I feel psychedelics can help you with such things, but they can also be counterproductive. Going constantly for the "heroic" ghost train trips can alter your psyche in bad way. Taking small amounts at the time, sharing the experience with like-minded friends and directing your mind to the things you feel vibrate positively can help you grow as a person.

I like to listen to icaro songs because they have appropriate reverence for these powerful tools. It's very important to cultivate respectful and mindful attitude towards yourself, others and everything you feed your body and mind with.

I tend to agree relative to how much we focus on our psychedelic use. I too find it important to engage our everyday lives with just as much if not more passion as with psychedelics. The pragmatic side (day to day living) is what we always come back to. Regardless of it's nature in the ultimate reality.

That's not to say you should forgo your goal of mastery, but to keep things in balance. There can be a nefarious escapist side with psychedelics, that seem to also reinforce delusion and encourage confirmation bias.

Everything in moderation, including moderation.

 

[ShamanisticVibes]

LISTEN TO THIS PODCAST PLEASE!!!

I posted a similar thread the other day...here.
I'm sorry but psychotic breaks do happen even to people with no history of mental illness.




I'm sorry you had a negative experience but the sad truth of psychedelics is.. They are not ALL SUNSHINE AND RAINBOWS! If you are still creating theories after so many years to explain a psychotic episode ,I would honestly suggest talking to a therapist ,not an online drug forum . I have experienced the magical thinking you describe and I am glad I had some good people to talk me down.

ps If anyone wants to truly believe that dmt is magic and allows you to see gods, demons and angels just know that I know many people who report similar experiences dealing with methamphetamine psychosis.

This is crazy how in sync we are, lol, I am on episode 7 of 10 of this particular incarnation of the dosenation podcast, so I am making my way through all of the darker sides of psychedelics. Although James does get to a point to where he seems a little matter-of-fact; almost a little elitists in his opinions masqueraded as fact. While I have listened to every word of the podcast up to the episode I just mentioned, and really feel I got a lot out of it, I have a hard time when he is talking over his guests getting the most out of them. I will be to this one (9of10) by this evening.


Dr. Psychonut, Thank you for sharing. I know these difficult journeys can be equally difficult to revisit. I have fought addiction for a very long time, and I have come to notice that when I have been on a relative binge, or long-term usage, I feel the trip is darker. The "wise" entities that you mentioned, will stay at a distance from me. Allowing me to catch a glimpse of them, but abstaining from sharing the mysterious knowledge which they possess. The longer I abstained from the drugs in which I were addicted, the more open, bright, and knowledgeable. Perhaps, if you did a sober month, where you let your brain synapses become free from addiction,you may return to those experiences where the love is the ruling emotion.

I had taken a few years off for the exact same reasons. After 2 years of sobriety (from narcotics, I still have a drink or two from time to time, and smoke my medical cannabis regularly; this does not seem to affect me), I tried 5-Meo-DMT. The result was reminiscent of the love-filled journeys I had been on in my early days experimenting with shamanic compounds. I feel your pain, brother, and if you ever want to talk about your addiction in private, there are folks here, myself included, who have been through it and come out on the other end. I cannot speak for everyone, but I feel as if these changes in my everyday life helped me to come back to a point where I am comfortable exploring within once again. Whether these issues are psychosomatic, or they are "real" (in some sense of the word) is still an open case, in my mind. The power of our self image is highly underestimated. If you have issues with yourself, even if only subconscious (i.e. you aren't depressed, but you do know you are losing control, you have things you have not forgiven yourself for, or other things as well). I am not going to pretend to know what was going on with you in these experiences, but I know these were some of the barriers that were in my way. Thanks again for sharing, brother. I wish you the best in all of your future endeavors.

-N