Alkaloids in solution... how long will they last?

[boylobster]

SWIM would like to know if anyone has any information on the lifespan of alkaloids dissolved and kept in an aqueous solution. Specifically, SWIM is thinking about dissolving some harmine+THH into plain H20, and some spice into an acidified H20 solution... probably with lemon juice.

SWIM isn't looking into this as a long-term storage method, but he would be very happy to know if the compounds would remain intact over a period of.... 'dunno... weeks? Thoughts, anyone?

Also, SWIM has thought to introduce small quantities of sweet substances to a liquid solution of H20 and, say, harmine or THH, in order to mitigate the bitterness of the taste. Can anyone forsee anything undesirable about this mixture?

Thanks for looking all, and be well.

 

[69ron]

Alkaloid lifetime is alkaloid specific.

Most should last at least a few years if an antioxidant is added to them and a preservative is added to it.

I would add a little vitamin C powder as an antioxidant.

As for sweetening, you should add something that would also act as a preservative. Many tinctures are made with glycerin. Glycerin is a pretty good preservative and it’s mildly sweet. Most tinctures made with glycerin can last a few years at room temperature.

If you make a tincture using pure glycerin you need to mix it 1:1 with water. At that concentration it will preserve the contents for a few years without refrigeration. To boost the sweetness you can add a little stevia extract.

 

[boylobster]

You a bad mo' fo' 69ron - thanks! SWIM has some good friends who've enjoyed their excursions into hyperspace, but have difficulty with the harshness of the smoke. The methods you describe would help SWIM share hyperspace with them, which he dearly loves to do. As before, I'm always grateful to you (and everyone) for your willingness to share. Salud!

Funny you should mention glycerin, by the way... I was just reading about a Green Dragon recipe that called for glycerin, and SWIM has been meaning to pick some up. SWIM supposes that he would first dissolve the DMT (for example) into the acidified H20, then add glycerine in an appropriate proportion? Sounds reasonable. Thanks again, and if anyone else has comments, of course feel free.

 

[prottel]

Specifically, SWIM is thinking about dissolving some harmine+THH into plain H20, and some spice into an acidified H20 solution... probably with lemon juice.

I'd say there is pretty much no loss of actives in an aqueous solution if you keep it in the fridge. However, I did once have problems storing the dmt in the fridge. Had like 10% loss per week. I think it was either the water source I used, or that I had mixed vinegar and phosphoric acid together. At least, something made the brew lose its power. And it was not just from oxidation, because my current brew has been in the fridge for like 6 weeks now with no noticable loss. And it is just as much air in this jar than the other ones I had before.

 

[boylobster]

Huh. Interesting Dagger, thanks. What are the particulars of your current brew, if you don't mind my asking? What's in the mix, how did you prepare it, where there any special considerations for storage, etc.? Good to know that aqueous storage seems to be such a painless procedure.

 

[prottel]

Huh. Interesting Dagger, thanks. What are the particulars of your current brew, if you don't mind my asking? What's in the mix, how did you prepare it, where there any special considerations for storage, etc.? Good to know that aqueous storage seems to be such a painless procedure.

On my last brew I used 50gram of finely powdered mimosa. I added it to my percolation column. Then added room temperature sterile water to it. I used phorphoric acid. Total amount of water used was 5 liter, that is a ratio of 1:100, plant material:water.

Then I reduced it to about a liter and added a concentrated solution of liquid gelatin to it. This causes most crap to precipitate out instantly. Then I filtered the crap out. This gives a watery looking brew with a slight pinkish tint. Then I reduced the brew further.

About 0.5 gram of mimosa from this brew is noticable. 2 gram is quite strong for me. 2 gram of this is 10 ml of liquid. No problem drinking it. Barely noticable taste.

It does not seem to create bacterial growth, and if it happens, it is usually after months in the fridge.

 

[boylobster]

Huh! That's an interesting method, Dagger. What the hell is a percolation column? Are you simply allowing the water to evaporate, or boiling it off? So basically, you're using an acid to convert the DMT into a salt which dissolves into solution, filtering the solution, and then drinking? You take an MOAI of some kind with that, I assume?

Good to know that it keeps - since I was referring to storing extracted alkaloids in solution via essentially the same process, the result should be little different, chemically, but minus the plant material. How far would you say you reduce the volume, ultimately? Just out of curiosity, is there any way you could estimate the amount of DMT freebase in your 2 gram dosage? Is there a thread where I could read more about your method without making you repeat everything here?

 

[prottel]

Is there a thread where I could read more about your method without making you repeat everything here?

The Herbal Percolator (THP) extraction method

I think you have to register to read that thread.
You can also read there how to clean up mimosa with gelatin or egg whites.

You take an MOAI of some kind with that, I assume?

Yes. I take caapi. In the THP thread it mainly mentions caapi, but it works wonderfully for mimosa powder.

How far would you say you reduce the volume, ultimately?

As mentioned I reduce it to were a dose of 2 gram mimosa is the same as 10 ml of brew.

Just out of curiosity, is there any way you could estimate the amount of DMT freebase in your 2 gram dosage?

I don't really know for sure, never tested freebase dmt. Perhaps 20 mg per 2 gram? Might be more.

 

[boylobster]

Cool. Sorry, didn't read the volume conversion info closely enough. Thanks again for the links and info!