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All Natural Tek - Vinegar/Lime/Limonene & FASW/Sodium Carb

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Swarupa

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Has anyone round here had success with this kind of tek?

Im thinking of fusing Q21's dry tek w/limonene, along with BLAB's tek to get DMT fumarate w/FASW, then continue with BLAB's tek to convert to DMT freebase with sodium carbonate.

It seems a good way to use all food safe/natural products and still end up with pure white DMT. If this is feasible i'm going to go for it next time i extract.

I've just finished a Q21 with Naphtha and i feel i'm ready for next time to go for it with all food safe/natural products. I generally feel the Q21 with Naphtha was much more friendly than the usual STB methods with lye as it just felt like a nicer procedure to carry out, one of those subjective things i guess, considering Naphtha totally evaporates it shouldn't be an issue, but i still feel like going with a more natural method is more appealing.


EDIT:
Here is the full tek im planning, i'd really appreciate some advice to refine it further & will update it as that happens...

DMT All Natural Tek


Acid/Salt DMT (2ml vinegar: 1g MHRB )

Add 200g of MHRB into bowl, add around 400ml Vinegar stirring til the mix is red
Place bowl in hot water bath (use larger bowl underneath)
Stir mixture over an hour with chopstick (test with PH strip)
Leave to sit for an hour

Alkaline/Base DMT (0.5-1g lime : 1g MHRB)

Add 150g Lime into Mix slowly
Start stirring & mix will become dry, if too dry add some hot water in small splashes
Mix should be just moist, thick & gooey, but not watery (if too watery add more Lime)
Mix should be moist but thick enough to make a hole in the middle of the mud
The mix must turn grey w/dark brown crust
Keep mixing & keep in hot water bath for an hour

Non Polar Solvent Wash (1.5-2ml Limonene : 1g MHRB)

Add 400ml solvent into mix & mix thoroughly over an hour
Pour off solvent off into a beaker

Fumarate extraction *(5ml Limo : 1ml FASW)
Add fumaric acid to a beaker of 300ml water, mix until water is completely saturated
The water will still look clear when saturated, now it is 'FASW' (fumaric acid saturated water)
After a few minutes there will be excess fumaric acid on the bottom of the beaker
Decant off FASW into fresh beaker

Add 80ml* FASW into Limonene beaker & mix well
Pull the FASW layer off into fresh beaker, repeat 3 times.

Evaporate FASW in rice cooker, scrape DMT fumarate & add to beaker

Freebase extraction
Heat some water & add enough to dissolve all the fumarate in beaker
In a separate beaker add sodium carbonate to 100ml water until no more will dissolve
Decant saturated water away from any undissolved sodium carbonate into fresh beaker

Add sodium carbonate solution to fumarate until no more clouding forms, then a tad more
Pour off solution into a glass dish & place in fridge for 120 hours
After 120 hours pour off solution into beaker through coffee filter
Add any crystals in filter back to the glass dish
Allow all crystals to dry on glass dish....
​
 
There is no reason it wouldn't work and SWIM is also planning on doing the same thing for his first extraction (well he is going to use FASW not FASI). Both BLAB and Q21 get you to a point where the DMT is in the Limonene. You are just using a different method to crash the DMT out of the Limonene than what is outlined in Q21.
 
So is that basically just the same except you make fumaric acid water rather than with ISA?

Im going to update my original post with the full tek im planning on using. :)
 
Yeah exactly. If you look at BLAB steps 4-6 you will see there are 3 sub sections one with FASI one with FASW and one with FASA. The FASI looks like it is the easiest, though technically it wouldn't be food grade.

Pretty sure I follow your tek and I (as someone who has read a lot around the teks, but no experience) thinks it should work fine. If you look at the actual Q21 thread on the forums (not the wiki, which is not as up to date) you will see he even says you can do something different once the DMT is in the limonene.

1) Acidify the root bark in your bowl and stir it and let it sit for the 30-60 min
2) Basify by adding your lime slowy and stiring till desired consistency.
3) Do your wash with the Limonene

--- Break from Q21

4) create a FASI by saturating IPA with Fumaric Acid
5) Mix this in with the Limonene which now has all the DMT in it
6) Separate the IPA from the Limonene
7) Allow the IPA to evap leaving your DMT Fumarate
8) Converte fumarte into freebase by using a Sodium Carbonate solution

There are actually many different ways you could convert the Fumarate to freebase in step 8, but the Blab one seems like one of the easiest to me.

Edit: I didn't see your update. Looks like you have your I's dotted and T's crossed :). I don't think you have to wait 24 hours for the Q21 early steps, but I don't know if anything bad would happen by doing so.
 
this is a great approach, it combines the best of two awesome food grade teks, and yields full spectrum spice. i have not tried the soduim carb in water method at the end tho, but it sounds really promising. just remember to dehydrate your isopropanol before fasi.
 
Malaclypse said:
Yeah exactly. If you look at BLAB steps 4-6 you will see there are 3 sub sections one with FASI one with FASW and one with FASA. The FASI looks like it is the easiest, though technically it wouldn't be food grade.
Click to expand...

Ah cool, cheers dude, i think i may then do a FASW myself then, saves me buying ISA & i like the idea of it being totally food safe, i wonder if a rice cooker would be good to evap the FASW & leave a workable fumarate that you can then convert to freebase...

I also wonder if the sodium carbonate freebasing would work at removing any of the left over fumaric acid from the FASW...

The only insane part of all this is that im gonna do all this food safe process, then im going to smoke it! Hardly healthy :lol:
 
biopsylo said:
this is a great approach, it combines the best of two awesome food grade teks, and yields full spectrum spice. i have not tried the soduim carb in water method at the end tho, but it sounds really promising.
Click to expand...

Surely the sodium carbonate at the end is the most important step, for freebase/smoking & to make sure its pure DMT?
Im assuming that as you end up with white crystal after that step that its going to be nn-DMT & nothing else?
Im not really going for full specturm/jimjam, more just pure DMT
 
as i am more interested in full spectrum, i have only based in a dry tek with sodium carbonate, and pulled with acetone, ipa or ethanol.

i def prefer ethanol to ipa, and have used what i call FASE. but here as well the alcohol needs to be dry 99%+.
 
Malaclypse said:
Chronic said:
Malaclypse said:
The only insane part of all this is that im gonna do all this food safe process, then im gonna SMOKE it, hardly healthy :lol:
Click to expand...

Well if you Vaporize it as opposed to smoking that helps some in that department eh :p
Click to expand...

Haha yeah, i have get a GVG, i'm going to change the tek to FASW for sure, the rice cooker evap should be fine as they stay below 100c, i was going to buy a rice cooker for making 10x caapi changa aswell so it works out nicely.

I find it strange that in the Naphtha/Q21 tek you have to leave the lime to basify for 3-5 hours, but if you're using Limonene/Q21 tek thenyou can add it straight after adding the Lime. I edited to bring the 3 Q21 tek steps down to an hour each (rather than 24 hours as previously posted).
That along with the FASW instead of FASI has shortened the tek by a good few days now ;)
Click to expand...
 
I wonder what happens if one freezes and thaws (or keeps at near-freeze temp) FASW with dmt. Would be cool if dmt fumarate would precipitate, and then one wouldnt even have to evap the water. This would save some more energy and time.

Or maybe if you add acetone/IPA to the water with FASW, the dmt fumarate might crash out once there is enough acetone or IPA (because dmt fumarate is insoluble in them). This could also save time.

Or maybe a mix of both ideas, mixing with acetone/ipa and then putting in the freezer.

Just some ideas I had, no idea if it works

Now I have no time to experiment but if anyone is willing, please do share the results :)
 
I may try the freeze/thaw cycle to test it out, although first time i think i'll go with the straight evap, then start to play around with it even more.

Im not that bothered about using acetone or IPA as i will be using one of them for 10x caapi/changa anyway, although i do like the idea of totally food safe extraction of the DMT itself
 
I still wonder if this tek should yeild pure DMT?

I see in the BLAB description the fumarate is described as 'jimjam/full spectrum', but after basifying the fumarate in sodium carbonate & preciping in the fridge does that convert it to pure DMT?

Thanks for any answers...
 
endlessness said:
I wonder what happens if one freezes and thaws (or keeps at near-freeze temp) FASW with dmt. Would be cool if dmt fumarate would precipitate, and then one wouldnt even have to evap the water. This would save some more energy and time.

Or maybe if you add acetone/IPA to the water with FASW, the dmt fumarate might crash out once there is enough acetone or IPA (because dmt fumarate is insoluble in them). This could also save time.

Or maybe a mix of both ideas, mixing with acetone/ipa and then putting in the freezer.

Just some ideas I had, no idea if it works

Now I have no time to experiment but if anyone is willing, please do share the results :)
Click to expand...

If you check the thread for Armor_fati's tech you will see that Freezing the FASW/Limo mix is his preferred method, however he just hasn't updated the wiki yet. From what I was reading, it did not sound like the DMT crashes out of the FASW and still needs to be evaporated. Regardless it makes separating the FASW from the Limo very easy as you can just pour off the Limo since it doesn't freeze and then use baster or whatever to pick up anything in the corners.

One of those other methods could work.

SWIM will be doing his first extraction soon pretty much the same way Chronic is outlining. After months of lurking and reading tech's over and over he ended up with the same idea as Chronic. He is just waiting patiently for his Limo to arrive despite the urge to just use some naptha he has he wants his first rookie runs to be all food grade for piece of mind. After he is comfortable with the tech as is he would be up for trying a few small extractions to see if adding IPA/Acetone to the FASW crashes it out at all.
 
I was totally sold on the food safe & i still am to an extent, but the spice i smoked yesterday was extracted with Q21/Naphtha and it was incredible, knowing this i could happily extract with Naphtha & not have it linger in my mind, to be honest i can't see the experience itself being altered much with the food safe extraction.

Saying that i still think a foodsafe is generally a nice way to do it, its only a few extra steps & a bit more time, so why not?

Could you link to amor fati's thread please i cant find it right now?
Freezing the FASW/Limo mix could be a nice addition to the tek, i really don't enjoy turkey basters so being able to freeze precip the FASW/Limo mix as it is without pulling off the saturated FASW would be perfect, i may have to update the tek again.

I'd need to know how much FASW to add to the Limo to make sure it all gets into the FASW, although i suppose you can always do more pulls on the Limo afterwards...

I edited as i realized you pointed out evaping is still necessary with amorfatis FASW/Limo & freeze tek...
 
Here you go.


I am in agreement with you. SWIM just likes the idea of going Food Grade for that piece of mind before he partakes for the first time with vaporized spice. He isn't totally opposed to non food grade stuff in practice he would just like to be more comfortable with the whole process before branching out IF he decides there is a good reason to do so at some point. He likes the idea of being able to re-use the limo and plans on using it as a household cleaner after recycling from extraction ;)

I think a rice cooker, or dehydrator, would work fine. You can also put the oven on at a low temp with the door open. Check the thread for details I am pretty sure that is in there. SWIM plans on freezing the FASW/Limo just for the simplicity, like you he isn't concerned about speed of the extraction but the end result.
 
Thankyou :)

How much FASW are you planning on mixing with the Limo when you go ahead with the extraction?
The same 5limo:1FASW ratio recommended in BLAB?

Im thinking it needs to be a decent amount to try & get most of the DMT out on the first freeze/pull

In BLAB he suggests 3x pulls at that ratio before evapping the saturated FASW, so im thinking for 400ml Limo about 240ml FASW mixed very thoroughly (not sure if emulsion could be an issue?) to try & pull a lot of spice out the Limo on the first pull
 
Not sure yet to be honest but he will probably follow BLAB pretty closely. Probably just make a bunch of FASW (at least the 5:1 ratio) and then slowly add it to the Limo until he doesn't see any reaction then mix it well and let it separate before putting it in the freezer. Then doing that again twice with the limo before re-cycling it. It is all new territory so some experimenting will need to take place. He plans on doing several smaller extractions so that if he does screw up he doesn't sweat it while he figures it all out.

Good luck!
 
Good idea & good luck, not that you will need it.

Be sure to report back, or feel free to post your results/findings in here, have fun! :)
 
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