Alternate DMT extraction

[DMTPanda]

Hi Fellow Nexians,

I was wondering if the following process could work for freebase:
1. Acid boil material with vinegar to get DMT Acetate.
2. Reduce the DMT acetate and water down until nearly all the water has evaporated.
3. Take the DMT acetate, basify with sodium carbonate by making a paste.
4. Use 100% IPA to pull Freebase DMT.

Can anyone clarify if yields would be low using this technique? If so, which step in the step would be losing the most product?
I know sodium carbonate is weak, and IPA isn't a strong solvent, however when working with small quantities and using a high amount of sodium carbonate and IPA relative to the DMT content should be more beneficial to yield right?
Also the products used for the extraction seem so much safer than the harsher Sodium Hydroxide and Xylene.
Also, it removes the need to acquire another product in Fumaric Acid.

Also wondering about the following process for Pharmahuasca:
1. Acid boil material with vinegar to get DMT Acetate.
2. Reduce the DMT acetate and water down until nearly all the water has evaporated.
3. DMT acetate is OK to consume with MAOI

Technically, there wouldn't be any loss of DMT content, as no other steps have been performed to lose any product? Maybe a defat would be needed on the DMT acetate to remove any unwanted by-products from being consumed?

 

[endlessness]

Yeah it would work.

Check this out:

Extracting DMT with ethanol, vinegar and sodium carbonate - Eco friendly extraction teks - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus

I dont know why you say that "IPA isn't a strong solvent" , it is definitely a very good solvent to dissolve DMT freebase. It's not as selective to DMT though, it will pull some impurities too but if you do a few cycles as explained in above thread it gets cleaner and cleaner.

As for the second pharmahuasca plan, should also work, but I'd be careful when its at the last part of the evap, not to burn the DMT. Its common for people to drink "mel" , or honey, which is a very concentrated syrup of ayahuasca. But to get it all the way to powder or resin, I've never done and not sure how well it would work, if any dmt would degrade/burn (depending on heat), or what the final consistency can be.

The main problem I see there is related to dosaging, since you wont know exactly how much of your product is DMT.. So you would have to do a proportionate dosaging based on the initial amount of plant material, so that you consume what was around 3g mimosa for example..

 

[concombres]

Hi Fellow Nexians,

I was wondering if the following process could work for freebase:
1. Acid boil material with vinegar to get DMT Acetate.
2. Reduce the DMT acetate and water down until nearly all the water has evaporated.
3. Take the DMT acetate, basify with sodium carbonate by making a paste.
4. Use 100% IPA to pull Freebase DMT.

Can anyone clarify if yields would be low using this technique? If so, which step in the step would be losing the most product?
I know sodium carbonate is weak, and IPA isn't a strong solvent, however when working with small quantities and using a high amount of sodium carbonate and IPA relative to the DMT content should be more beneficial to yield right?
Also the products used for the extraction seem so much safer than the harsher Sodium Hydroxide and Xylene.
Also, it removes the need to acquire another product in Fumaric Acid.

Also wondering about the following process for Pharmahuasca:
1. Acid boil material with vinegar to get DMT Acetate.
2. Reduce the DMT acetate and water down until nearly all the water has evaporated.
3. DMT acetate is OK to consume with MAOI

Technically, there wouldn't be any loss of DMT content, as no other steps have been performed to lose any product? Maybe a defat would be needed on the DMT acetate to remove any unwanted by-products from being consumed?

I like this idea. Post back if you go through with it.
Cleaning up may be easier as a freebase because so many impurities are soluble in water & freebase dmt is not. Conversion back to acetate once clean can be done dropwise with vinegar & dried.

I have some mimosa & acacia i can spare to experimentation.
If i can find the time i may go for it with a small quantity of each & see how things go :thumb_up:

 

[DMTPanda]

OK so SWIM tried the extraction on acacia, only problem is that the IPA isn't seperating and creating its own layer. Any suggestions on how to solve this?

 

[AcaciaConfusedYah]

While I did find that this method CAN work, I felt it works best with IPA or ethanol that has a very high %. I prefered dry acetone when using this method - and also making sure the past is totally dry before doing the pulls - any water will mix with the IPA/acetone/or ethanol and allow unwanted contaminates.

I found that any water in the IPA, ethanol, or acetone allowed for soda carb conramination. This can still be cleaned re-x with an NPS, or re-x with cold dry acetone.

 

[pitubo]

OK so SWIM tried the extraction on acacia, only problem is that the IPA isn't seperating and creating its own layer. Any suggestions on how to solve this?

Add salt. A common technique to preliminarily dry IPA before further refinement is to add NaCl, which is insoluble in IPA. The brine (salty water) will form a separate bottom layer and the dryer IPA can be decanted. Grind your salt to a fine powder if possible.

 

[DMTPanda]

SWIM thinks the problem was adding 500ml of water after the IPA was added. The IPA did seperate before adding water, but not after it. Can anything be done to save it?
Swim only added water so it could go through a seperatory funnel easier.

 

[downwardsfromzero]

SWIM thinks the problem was adding 500ml of water after the IPA was added. The IPA did seperate before adding water, but not after it. Can anything be done to save it?
Swim only added water so it could go through a seperatory funnel easier.

Yes that is the source of your problem. Water, sodium carbonate, sodium acetate, DMT and IPA will all be miscible if there is a lot of water present.

 

[endlessness]

I dont know where you got the idea that layers separate with IPA. IPA is miscible with water. You have to simply pour the IPA off the plant material, evap that and continue cleaning up whatever is left. Can you please describe more clearly exactly which steps you took and what chemicals you mixed, so we can try to sort things out?

 

[Shadowman-x]

if i'm not mistaken when saturated with salt IPA will form separate layers with water...i might be wrong though. even if theres' only 5% water in the IPA the ipa would probably grab all the dmt non?

 

[Jox]

Wonder how is this different from endlessness' ecofriendly ethanol... tek.

In other words does straight to base, sod carb, has less yeald than cooking in acid and reducing?

Always think that cooking is to be avoided.

Reducing can be done in double boiler: if you have your MHRB in acid for few days, 2g is good for 30 ml of ph 3 h3po4 or other acid, than evaped in double boiler, will give you the same as cooking? Just guessing.

 

[DMTPanda]

I dont know where you got the idea that layers separate with IPA. IPA is miscible with water. You have to simply pour the IPA off the plant material, evap that and continue cleaning up whatever is left. Can you please describe more clearly exactly which steps you took and what chemicals you mixed, so we can try to sort things out?

Steps as follows:

1. Add vinegar until <4 pH.
2. Boil once for 1 hour.
3. Separate tea and plant material
4. Continue to reduce the tea down to a thick paste (paste would cease to boil)
5. Add Sodium Carbonate until pH 10 (weighed at approx. 50g)
6. Added IPA (60mL) and stirred multiple times (IPA took on darker colouration, and was separating at this time)
7. Transferred to a separatory funnel, however the material was too thick to use a separatory funnel properly.
8. Added 500mL of water, and the IPA layer doesn't separate anymore.

So the water cannot be removed now by reducing, because the freebase DMT has a lower boiling temperature than water. SWIM was thinking about just adding Xylene to extract the freebase, and re-attempting again without adding water. Separate with a pipette pump.

 

[pitubo]

1. Add vinegar until <4 pH.
2. Boil once for 1 hour.
3. Separate tea and plant material

I think that this tek works easier if you keep in at least some of the plant material, if the plant material is finely powdered.

4. Continue to reduce the tea down to a thick paste (paste would cease to boil)
5. Add Sodium Carbonate until pH 10 (weighed at approx. 50g)

It could be beneficial to let the mixture dry before extracting with IPA.

6. Added IPA (60mL) and stirred multiple times (IPA took on darker colouration, and was separating at this time)
7. Transferred to a separatory funnel, however the material was too thick to use a separatory funnel properly.

Here you see, if the substrate was dry, you would not need a separatory funnel, but could instead do with a regular funnel and filter. The presence of some plant material in the substrate matrix could have made the filtering more practical in that case.

8. Added 500mL of water, and the IPA layer doesn't separate anymore.

If you had added brine (salt saturated water) the IPA layer should have separated.

So the water cannot be removed now by reducing, because the freebase DMT has a lower boiling temperature than water.

Where does that wisdom come from? AFAIK DMT freebase doesn't boil at a lower tempertature than water. Are you referring to the boiling point listed somewhere for DMT in near absolute vacuum perhaps?