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Am I locked out of Ayahuasca?

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gliderbmw

gliderbmw

Rising Star
I have discovered DMT just over 2 years ago, following that I went into the full experience of ayahuasca. Had I not tried smoking DMT prior to that, I find it difficult going for the full experience, considering I have read almost every single post regarding this topic, where quite a few frightening experiences were discussed.

My first journeys were a pure bliss, my third time where I found courage to ingest enough DMT to be able to go for a full journey, was the most profound. I got to the point where I looked at life and world surrounding me with pure love and joy. Everything that would have irritated me in the past, transformed into something meaningful. I had many journeys since then but none of them brought me to that state of mind. However, I felt reborn and re-energised every time.

Last 3-4 months, I am unable to have full experience of aya. In the past, 40-50g of caapi + 110-140mg of DMT could rock my world but now, I even tried 130g of pretty potent caapi with over 200mg of DMT with little effect.

Recently, 130g of caapi followed by 150mg of DMT give me vivid visions and feel of aya but within 1-1.5hrs it just ends. Additional dose of 50mg of DMT doesn't do much. Visions so strong evolve but then fade abruptly within 10-15 minutes.

I source caapi from the same trusted vendor and according to the amount of alkaloid amount that can be extracted from them, potency is not an issue. It appears that MAIOs stop working in my system too early.

Have I built strong tolerance to MAOIs? I have googled this topic and it seems that for most out there, the more they do it, the more they tune into the experience. For me, it seems that the more I do it, the more numb I become to the experience.

Has anyone else experienced this? Is there a ‘reset’ tech for your body?

I am a lone person and live in the northern hemisphere of the planet. It gets tough in the winter due to cold and darkness. Ayahuasca helped me get back on my feet when I felt rough and I could transfer my positive energy to my close relatives when they needed it. Right now I feel like I lost connection to my significant source of energy and I can’t find others who can relate to this.

Thank you for reading and appreciate your advice.
 
It should still work just fine, probably just the timing between the Caapi and the DMT. I use analog plants Rue and Mimosa/Acacia, i take the Rue/Harmalas first, wait 30 minutes to an hour, and take the DMT, works like a charm.

It shouldn't have stopped working for some odd reason, because i took this stuff daily/near daily for 4 years, never stopped working for me, and the Harmalas build up a reverse tolerance so the more regularly they're consumed the stronger (and cleaner) the Harmalas/Caapi/Rue get.

Remember that DMT is not usually orally active, so if there's an issue experiencing the full oral DMT experience, chances are it has to do with the MAO-A inhibition. If you consume the DMT when gut MAO-A is fully inhibited, the oral DMT should last 3, usually 4 to 5 hours. Only times i've had DMT last like 30 minutes to an hour to an hour and a half is with inadequate MAO-A inhibition or taking the DMT too early or too late.

Have you tried something like Caapi freebased extract in a capsule, or Rue seed powder in capsules, or freebased Rue or purified Harmala extract in a capsule? That's pretty much what i do, i prefer capsules over teas. I take the Rue seed powder or Rue/Harmala extract, wait 30 minutes to an hour, and take the Mimosa/Acacia, works each and every time.

Alternatively, if you can get your hands on some mushrooms or 4-ACO-DMT, you can mix that with the Caapi and get a full experience because Psilocin doesn't require MAO-A inhibition to be orally active, and if properly potentiated, the MAO-A inhibition will lengthen the Psilocin duration out to 9 to 12 hours.
 
I also would recommend switching to rue as maoi, so you can be sure your issue is not maoi related.

Paragraph 5: talk about how/where you obtained, is not permitted, you might delete that section before a mod does 😉
 
Thank you for your replies, guys!

ShamensStamen,

I worked my timing to pretty much perfection – I would take DMT 45mins-1hr after ingestion of MAOIs. It used to work like a charm in the past, I could feel the ‘buzz’ in my head which was a signal that MAOIs have kicked in.
And I can still feel the same buzz now, only the following effect is different. I always take DMT after I feel that MAOIs are working. DMT intake for me is gradual – 80mg 45mins after MAOI ingestion, another 30mg 30 minutes after and another 20-30mg of DMT in 30 minutes, depending on how it goes :) It worked for me fine in the past and I found that gradual ingestion leads to a smoother experience. From your advice, I understand that I am better off to take the whole amount of DMT straight away whilst MAOIs are still working?

Jees,

I have tried Harmala 99% extract (harmine 47% + harmaline 53%) – as far as I am aware, harmine overpowers harmaline in equal combination. Such extract (350mmg) made my world look grey combined with DMT. However, I tried mixing 80mg of caapi with 200mg of Harmala extract – profound vivid visions for 40-50 minutes that faded as per my previous experience. Suppose, I should increase amount of Caapi to 100mg, combined with harmala extract of 300mg.

Regarding paragraph 5 – forgive me if I infringed any of the rules (I did read them prior to posting my first post on the forum) I haven’t named any of the sources but please correct if me if there is any misunderstanding involved from my side :)
 
^^^ those are high numbers of extracts, for me potentiation starts at 100mg rue FB extract and is full on at 200 mg, subjectively.



Mentioning how obtained is already enough, house rules, sorry :oops:
 
Yeah i've noticed when taking Rue/Harmalas in capsules that the guts MAO-A inhibition lasts up till about an hour and a half after the Rue/Harmalas, and if i try to take DMT after that it doesn't end up working out well, it's like on the tail end of the gut's MAO-A inhibition so only a little bit of DMT gets absorbed. So if you take the DMT all at once around 45 minutes to an hour after the MAO-A inhibition, you should be fine.

Alternatively you could try dissolving the DMT in some liquid and sipping on the liquid drinking it all within say 10, 15, 20 minutes, it'll stretch it out a little bit and make the come up a bit smoother, i did that with my Acacia tea a few good times and it worked out pretty well, took my Rue extract capsule, waited an hour, drank my Acacia tea over 15 to 20 minutes and it all seemed to kick in alright.

You also may wanna check out Lemon Balm which will help smooth out the DMT come up, make a 3 to 4 gram Lemon Balm tea and drink it when you take the DMT, or the Rue/Harmalas/Caapi, and it'll help reduce the intensity, and the anxiety/panic, offering a smooth come up/transition ime, and doesn't seem to reduce the benefits and still taps me into these deep states and such, and the Lemon Balm adds a nice flavor to the experience and also cleans up how the Rue/Harmalas feel. So it's definitely worth checking out.

And yeah as far as Harmala extract goes, when i use freebased Rue or Harmala extract, i go for 180mgs to 200mgs, i know the Harmala extract is a bit more potent weight wise than the full spectrum Rue extract, but i stick to the same dosages anyways for the most part. Haven't tried Caapi extract but a few times by itself and i haven't tried mixing the Caapi and Rue yet but i do wanna get into that in the time to come.
 
Just tried 110g of caapi pus 300mg of harmala extract with over 200mg of DMT - all useless and ended within 2 hours, without taking off. These are crazy amounts for an average person.

I struggle to find any precedents to this. Am I the only one who is facing this issue?

Wish I could find a reset button in terms of MAOIs sensitivity.
 
If you're sure that you're inhibiting MAO-A completely, then it's one of 2 things, the timing between the MAO-A inhibition and the DMT, or your CYP2D6 liver enzyme (if you're high in that enzyme, as that enzyme metabolizes out the Harmalas, and some people are slow or heavy metabolizers of the Harmalas). So either play around with the timing of the DMT, like try 10 minutes, 15 minutes, 20 minutes, 25 minutes, 30 minutes, after the Harmalas and see if that makes any difference compared to 45 minutes to an hour, and remember to take the DMT all at once. Or perhaps browse around for some sort of CYP2D6 inhibitor and try that out, inhibiting CYP2D6 if you're high in the enzyme, will slow down the duration of action of the Harmalas and potentiate the dosage so you wouldn't need as much. Or you could try taking the Harmalas regularly on a daily/near daily basis for a week or two and then give it a try, as Harmalas themselves are known to inhibit CYP2D6 and i think that could play a role in it's reverse tolerance so the more regularly they're consumed the more they inhibit CYP2D6 and the stronger in effect they get.

If you use this stuff in liquid form, rather than capsule form, give the capsules a try. Take your Harmala extract in a capsule, and then try waiting 30 to 45 minutes to an hour to take the DMT, likely dissolved into something acidic and drank. If i'm not mistaken, and i could be because i don't work with Harmalas in tea form, because the Harmalas are in liquid form and liquid is absorbed and excreted more quickly, the timing of the gut's MAO-A inhibition and the DMT could be shorter, so whereas capsules may give you gut MAO-A inhibition up to about an hour and a half after consuming the Harmalas, Harmalas in liquid form may already be gone from the gut by 30 minutes, so consuming the DMT 5, 10, 15, 20, 25 or 30 minutes after the Harmalas in liquid form may work better than waiting a longer period. Whereas with capsules, i've personally never had an issue, same timing all the time, works like a charm.
 
Been there. In the long run, if you chase magic, it doesn't happen. It might also be a new spiritual phase for you - the plant telling you it's time not for visions but rather for contemplation, or another purpose. Also, tolerance do develop in some despite others being able to perpetuate their journeying. Instead of adding more and relying on it to take you to that special place, try much less and attempt to find your way to the realms through connecting to the subtle energy that is there, using mental skill. There's a reason natives practice and perfect these things to the point of not needing anything external to experience other worlds within.
 
I just wonder why smaller doses of MAOIs worked every time in the past and I could take another dose of DMT 2 hours after MAOIs and it would still work. Something has definitely changed in my system.

Thank you for advice regarding CYP2D6, this makes sense and apparently, I am pretty high on this enzyme. However, I noticed that the more often I take MAOIs, the less effect they have on me and if I wait for 3-4 weeks without taking them, effect is stronger. This is odd.

I guess, I will try to adjust timings next time and take DMT 10 minutes after MAOIs. I normally dissolve freebase harmala extract in lemon or orange juice and drink it. Same with DMT. Not sure if capsules work for me very well as I tried it in them and this ended up being a misfire.

hellspawn1, I did hear about practicing to connect to other realms without taking any substances. This is a very interesting subject. Sadly, I don't know anyone who could teach this from experience. Were you able to overcome similar issue to mine by focusing the journey?
 
hellspawn1 - Yeah i've never had any issues, took it daily/near daily for 4 years, worked like a charm. No tolerance, just a reverse tolerance to the Harmalas, magic never went away. "There's a reason natives practice and perfect these things to the point of not needing anything external to experience other worlds within." Yeah i'd never be able to do that, for me it's Aya or nothing, it's a tool to help me access what's already within myself but without the tool i would never know about or be able to access this stuff any other way, at least not to the depths that Aya has taken me. I feel like those who think you can get all this stuff without drugs are fooling themselves.

gliderbmw - Capsules have been very reliable for me, feel no need to use liquid really. Capsules dissolve within a couple minutes or so, and the extract always kicks in reliably and consistently. I take the Harmala/Rue extract capsule, wait 30 minutes to an hour and take the Mimosa/Acacia and it's always worked for me. Though do note if you're on some sort of stomach acid reducing medication like Zantac or the proton pump inhibitors, reduced stomach acid can throw off the timing and mess with the absorption of things, ime.
 
ShamensStamen said:
hellspawn1 - Yeah i've never had any issues, took it daily/near daily for 4 years, worked like a charm. No tolerance, just a reverse tolerance to the Harmalas, magic never went away. "There's a reason natives practice and perfect these things to the point of not needing anything external to experience other worlds within." Yeah i'd never be able to do that, for me it's Aya or nothing, it's a tool to help me access what's already within myself but without the tool i would never know about or be able to access this stuff any other way, at least not to the depths that Aya has taken me. I feel like those who think you can get all this stuff without drugs are fooling themselves.
Click to expand...

Very curious aboit your experience. What have you learned?
 
I learned quite a lot, very hard to put it all into words, but basically found out that there's a lot of stuff within myself and within all people, that i never knew was there. I've had a lot of understandings about things, a lot of different experiences, found legit spirituality/mysticism and the idea of gnosis and inner/higher knowing/remembering/learning. It was like a rite of passage, for sure, the only thing i've come across in my life that i can say was truly religious, though not all of it was, there's a lot of content within ourselves that this stuff gives us access to, it's like a path, a process, an art/craft, a practice, things unfold as you go along and there's so much to learn. It's magical, it's witchy, it's spiritual/mystical/religious/sacramental, it's medicinal and therapeutic, it's pretty awesome stuff. I haven't taken the DMT part since 2015 but still take the Harmalas/Rue here and there, so it's been awhile and there's a lot of things about it that's difficult to remember but when i'm back in that state i remember, because a lot of it is subconscious and when it comes back to my awareness and conscious mind i'm like "now i remember why i love this stuff!" lol. So all my experimentation isn't lost, it's still there, may have to get back in the groove again but i'm sure things will fall back into place whenever i dive back in again. But yeah it's definitely my favorite Entheogen, that's for sure.
 
Tried everything...seems I have a unique system. CYP2D6 inhibitors might be the answer. Or abstinence for months.

Thank you all for your input! :)
 
After several months of staying away from MAO inhibitors, I was able to have nearly full experience. 100g of Caapi + 200mg of harmala extract and 200mg of DMT. Still, pretty strong dose.

MAOI tolerance is real. I guess, only for few of us.
 
I've found that my experiences tend to be much stronger when I consume both of the ingredients at the same time!
THH is also much more the deal!

If I wait e.g. an hour after MAOI / RIMA it's much smoother and less "bizarre"

according to 69RON MAOI starts quite fast after ingestion and disappears just from the beginning, especially when you dissolve your freebase directly in OG and drink it down!
I would second that based on my experience, dunno :p

EDIT : I also used much less DMT in my trials yet! about 150mg MAOI and about 30-50mg DMT ;)
for sure there still must be plenty of room for "going deeper" / higher dosage relations
 
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