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Am I really THAT much of a hard head?

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digital_phreedom

digital_phreedom

Rising Star
So, I tried another brew last night. First time in a little while. Used the last of my current stock of Caapi, 71 grams worth. And I haven't been having very strong experiences with the pre-shredded Mimosa I have from Maya, so this time I used 11 grams.. Yeah, that's right: 11 grams of Mimosa. And it was still a pretty weak experience!

Don't get me wrong, I'm not really upset about it.. I'm grateful to have all these light experiences, to prepare me for when the stronger ones come. I'm usually very nervous before I drink anyway, and usually say a little "please don't kick my ass too hard" kind of prayer. But I'm getting to a point where I think I'm ready for at least a moderately strong experience, and it's just not quite coming.

It could just be weak Mimosa. Because the one time I used a different batch, it was whole bark and I ground it myself, used 8 grams, drank 6, felt the effects immediately, only held it down for less than 5 minutes before I purged, and it was still a moderate-light experience.. So whenever I go back to that batch, I'm going to stick with smaller amounts and work my way up.

But seriously, last night, with 11 grams of Mimosa.. It was a very light experience. Most of the effects had completely subsided only 1.5 hours after drinking.. There were some very light visuals, my thoughts were slightly effected, music sounded a little different, but mostly I just felt the waves of body buzzing/energy.

I think my brewing technique is fairly sound now.. I do three washes, usually about 2 hours long each. I could do them longer I guess, but with the pots I have and the amount of water I'm using, it only takes me about 2 hours for it to get low enough to need changing.

I add about 1 tsp of vinegar per 500ml. I don't boil, I simmer. And I watch it nearly the whole time..

I've certainly noticed that when I filter the sediment out of my Caapi brew, it's effects aren't even strong enough for inhibition, and that was with 60 grams. I wondering, could something similar be happening with my Mimosa?

I've stopped filtering my Caapi. I can handle the sludge. And I don't really have a problem with nausea anymore. I can even get the drinks down pretty easily now. I don't even really gag anymore. But I still filter my Mimosa. After the reduction I have been straining it through a coffee filter, and what I'm left with has barely any sediment left. It's still a very dark liquid, but the little tiny pieces of Mimosa left are negligible, if any.

The times when I've had stronger experiences, with lower amounts of Mimosa, I only filtered through a t-shirt, and there was still visible sediment left. Those times were stronger, but I was still experiencing nausea with it, which is why I started filtering with the coffee filter. But what's really helped me most with the nausea is dramamine about an hour before, and 1 or 2 slices of toast 30 minutes or so before. So I guess I could try not filtering so much with my new anti-nausea techniques and see how it goes.

But I'm wondering what you guys think? What's going on here if 11 grams of Mimosa from Maya is still a very, very light experience for me? Like I said, I guess it could certainly be the batch of Mimosa I have, but since I've been constantly updating my anti-nausea techniques, and filtering methods, I can't be sure.

I'll appreciate hearing your opinions. Thanks!
 
You're concentrating a lot on the mimosa - is it possible your caapi is sub-standard, or maybe the caapi brewing technique is at fault? This, clearly, would result in less MAO inhibition and less absorption of DMT from the mimosa. I say this because even if you are a hard head who takes twice as much as everyone else AND your mimosa is weak by a factor of half, an 11g dose of mimosa is s still the equivalent of 2.75g, which I understand is nothing to balk at, especially given the 71g of caapi...

BE VERY CAREFUL. If you keep upping the dose and your technique improves suddenly (assuming it is your technique), you are in for one helluva ride, that I would, without qualms, categorize as dangerous.

Perhaps someone with more experience than me with oral administration can pipe up here - all my knowledge is drawn from reading and observing, being an oral virgin (take this any way that pulls a smile to your face...:lol: (incidentally, for those of you who didn't catch it, and in the interest of pushing that smile to a full blown guffaw, "pipe" ^^^^ is colloquial french for fellatio. (hey, did he say full "blown"? hehehe)))

good luck,

JBArk the immature punny guy
 
Yes, I've been considering extracting for exactly that reason. However I'm not quite able to do it given my current living situation, and I still really like the idea of using the brew in a more 'natural' way, though this can be subjective I'm sure.

You could be right about my Caapi brewing technique, however I've been having good results with it for awhile, and even with Caapi only brews I get strong effects from the right amount of Caapi. It definitely hits me, and hard sometimes. The 71g of Caapi last night was definitely felt. The Caapi I do 3 washes of 3 hours each. I add 1 tsp vinegar to every 500ml, and use about 800ml of water per wash. I filter through a t-shirt, reduce to about 1.5 oz, and drink it, sludge and all.

And thank you for sharing your concern about my Mimosa doses. I'm quite aware of that fact as well, which is why I said I'm grateful for these light experiences and that I haven't got hit with a cosmic sledge-hammer just yet. And it's also why I decided to bring my troubles here to get some more experienced advice. But like I said, when I switch to a new batch of Mimosa I will certainly be lowering my dose again.

I've heard from many people that Ayahuasca is interesting because sometimes you need to keep drinking it for awhile before you really start to feel the full spectrum of effects.. And while I like that idea in a way, it's spiritually pleasing if you will, the scientific/logical part of me has questions about it.. I'm really into the spiritual side of these things nowadays, but when it comes down to it, I'm still putting chemicals in my body, that should have certain effects relative to dose.
 
I have noticed, that its about the vine. Sometimes, you get weak effects, because you have not reached full inhibition. Do you take your doses together or seperately? i noticed, that with dmt fumarate, its a short experience if i dose it with caapi at the same time and weak if i wait for too long. So that's another variable.

As some seasoned drinkers pointed out in the past, diet could also play into effect. Do you fast for at least 4 hours before taking the ayahuasca? An empty stomach could also potentiate the experience.
 
obliguhl:

You made two really good points I hadn't yet thought of.. I always wait at least ten minutes after the Caapi before drinking the Mimosa, and lately I've been waiting more near the 20 minute mark. Are those good times?

But the food thing could be part of it.. I'm chronically skinny.. Have been my whole life. I started weightlifting when I was in prison, and finally found a way to gain weight! I've been 6'3'', about 110 pounds, since high school.. I finally got my weight up to about 140-145, but even with continued weightlifting and protein supplements, I'm still stuck here.. My max weights are still going up, but I'm not gaining weight..

So I HATED the idea of having to fast before I drink, because.. Well I monitor my caloric intake, and I'm usually getting a good 8,000 calories a day, roughly, with the protein shakes on top of that.. Yeah, at LEAST 8000 calories, and I still can't gain weight.. So after I started to notice that the RIMA effects of Caapi don't give me headaches or anything like that, no matter what I eat 24hrs before and after, I stopped with the fasting..

I drink at night, usually around 9 or 10 PM.. And the whole day before I eat normally up until about 4 or 5 PM, then I have my last meal for the day, and I make it a light one. After that all I have before I drink is water, dramamine, and 1 or 2 slices of toast. My diet is pretty healthy though. Lot's of whole grains, and usually zero red-meat. I eat organic, vegan food whenever I can. After my Iboga experience it's my favorite kind of food! I love it, but I can't always afford it.

But I had always assumed that food in my stomach might slow down absorbtion, but that it wouldn't block me from still absorbing all the DMT and such.

Good points though. So what are your thoughts on all that?

And also, thank you everyone so much for your help and opinions on this. I'm so happy to have a place like this to come and share knowledge, get advice, etc.
 
I would suggest increasing your amount of vine and leaving the Mimosa as is, until you have fullblown hallucinogenic effects from just the Caapi. This is a great way to peg your threshold... wait for the carrier wave... wait for the snakes... wait until you feel so stoned that you can't walk... wait for the Guiding Inner Light... all these things come without the DMT.

So much depends on personal metabolism and strength of vine. Some people just need 200g. I have brewed for people who just can't feel a tickle until they drink that much (I poured their cups in disbelief and terror, as I need much less).

The good news is... there seems to be a reverse tolerance. Some of the first times are the toughest to break through, but once that space is opened, you will both gain more experience and know how to return more easily.

Good luck! <3
 
What foods do you eat?..do you eat alot of cheese and other tyramine containing foods?
Johnothan Ott has talked about the idea that some people seem to be high mao phenotype..both naturally and due to the foods they eat..more tyramine in he diet might contribute to the body putting out more mao, I cant really say for sure though.

I cant ever imagine anyone needing more than 50g of vine to at least feel something..50g of ceilo and 1 gram of mimosa had me rolling around staring into the darkness at colored panoramas and laughing endlessly until I was crying 2 nights ago..thats ALWAYS a solid dose for me..I find it hard to believe that I am really that different from anyone else, other than differences based on my diet since im vegan and eat mostly raw food..but I guess it's possible some people do just need more..

Also..a small hit of DMT once you do start to feel the brew *really* kicks it in..im talking like 10mg..

And might be wise to listen to minxx..thats ALOT of mimosa you are drinking there..alot he bark I had from maya was amazing quality..I would up the caapi if anything..if all that mimosa hits you suddenly you might be really in for it..I think I drank 6 grams once and trust me, I dont have any intention of doing that again for a loooong time.
 
digital_phreedom said:
I don't even really gag anymore. But I still filter my Mimosa. After the reduction I have been straining it through a coffee filter, and what I'm left with has barely any sediment left. It's still a very dark liquid, but the little tiny pieces of Mimosa left are negligible, if any.
I'll appreciate hearing your opinions. Thanks!
Click to expand...

hey digital, what is up my brutha?
from reading past posts from folks using coffee filters it seems they take out too many active alkaloids the same as freezing the teas do. i think your brewing tek is very good and maya products are top notch so i would take a good look at your method of filtering mimosa through coffee filters. maybe just try a 4-6 hour decant next time.
like you said; you had better effects each time you only strained through a t-shirt.

you clearly have an incredibly fast metabolism. as a die hard fitness and training nut i can attest that anyone who can consume 8000 cal a day and still have a tough time putting on weight is pretty rare. i wonder what your resting heart rate is? metabolism may be part of the equation.

i really dont think eating cheese and other foods could ever make that much of a difference. i have searched different resources but still haven't seen any science to support these ideas.
 
I have experienced a noticeable increase in sensitivity when I switched to a fruitarian (80%+ calories from fruit) diet, for what it's worth, so it can increase sensitivity to a degree; it is definitely not the be-all-end-all, though, as I had a fruitarian roomie who needed 200g+ to feel anything. It's a factor worth experimenting with, anyway! :)

I always filter my mimosa 3x through a t-shirt, and used to do it through a pantyhose (rrrrow ;) ) at the end. Decanting is the most important part, though... that sludge is naaaaasty. :shock:

Please let us know how your experiments go! :)
 
Thanks again for all the solid advice people, I really appreciate it!

So yeah.. Hmmm.. Maybe it was the vine I was using? Because when I made my first two brews, it was whole vine from an american supplier, and with 60 grams it was hard to even walk, definitely psychedelic. But with the shredded white I had from Maya, even the 71 last night didn't seem as strong as that 60 from the other supplier, it definitely still hit me though.

So I think what I will do is, for starters, make sure I'm sufficiently inhibited. Unfortunately I don't have anymore Caapi, and it will be a little while before I order more.. So for now I'll be switching to Rue seeds. Sad face.. I really liked the Caapi.

But when I do get more Caapi I'll certainly try upping the dose until it hits me good and strong. Also, I'm not going to use a coffee filter anymore. I'll just stick to a T-shirt.

And until I get this all figured out, I'm definitely going to lower my Mimosa dose quite a bit, just to be safe. I'll probably brew extra in case I need it, but yeah, I'll be starting at the bottom of the ladder again.

One more question I guess.. I know that Caapi strength can vary, obviously.. But I'm getting impression that it's the Caapi I need more of. Does that translate to more Rue as well? I was planning on starting with 3 grams or so. What do you think? Also, I've never used Rue seeds before.. And I know I could just search for this, but since you're already reading this, do the Rue seeds need to be ground first? And what's your preferred method for ingesting them? I've heard of a lot of different ways.

Thanks everyone!

<3
 
I have read many reports on these forums that most people need to take more of the Maya white stuff. It is one of the most highly regarded caapis, but not for the "strength" more for the "flavor" of the experience. At least that is what I have gathered while pouring over this forum (including heavy use of the search function). So yeah you should probably just up your dose of caapi till you find what gets you totally into the caapi zone. I rarely have seen people mentioning less than 100g of the white even if they use a lot less of the different varieties.

For sure start back over on your mimosa dose since you are switching to a different mao source so you don't find out the hard way it was the caapi all along. Probably back to 2.5g at most. That could even be a very strong dose if it was the caapi dose that was the issue.

So to answer your last question I would treat each maoi source different and that includes not just caapi vs rue, but caapi vs caapi. Though you don't have to be as careful on your caapi dose so you can err on heavy side. Not sure about rue tbh, I haven't done any research and don't really have any desire to since SWIM seems to be 100% ok with full on psychedelic caapi doses.
 
Agreed.. It's not so much that I have a desire to use Rue, but the last time I ordered from Maya, after talking back and forth with Maurice a bit, he included 25 grams of Rue seeds for free. I'm on a bit of a budget now, so I can't afford all the Caapi I'd like, so I figured free Rue seeds would be good to have around if I ever needed an MAOI source.

And that's good to know about white Caapi. I hadn't assumed anything like that because I don't think I've ever heard anyone say anything back about Maya; not that what you're saying is bad, but yeah, I just assumed it would be of sufficient strength.

And 2.5 does sound like a good place to start. I'm hoping it isn't the Mimosa that's the culprit, because I still have quite a bit of it left, and I really like Maya and don't feel like toying around looking for new suppliers.
 
Yeah makes sense to try the rue while your are low on funds. Can't offer advice on doses as I haven't spent any time researching. I have put quite a lot of research into caapi and all that information on doses was fresh in my mind. I went ahead and checked my bookmarks and re-did some searches just to re-iterate the point.

Here is a great thread for you.


You can see Soulfood saying he likes 100-150g of white.

And here is Minxx from another thread

50g may be WAY too little, depending on the type of vine (I like around 120g of a gentle white vine, and most others need closer to 200g--but it is also wiser to start lower first, until you are certain this is the kind of vine you have, and not, say, a cielo that will blow your skull apart at 30g). Did you change the water and do three separate washes at three hours each? Did you acidify?
Click to expand...

Of course even having said that, I have read some people feeling very strong effects from < 50g of the white too. Individual sensitivity obviously still plays a strong part.

SWIM has only worked with the yellow and cielo from Maya and they floored him (no admixture) at only ~40g. At some point he will pick up some of the white to compare.
 
GREAT information Mal!

Thank you so much for taking the time to locate that thread for me, and help explain the differences in Caapi vine. I knew it varied, but didn't realize it could be THAT variable, or that some people were affected so differently.

Much appreciated my friend!
 
There's some great advice here, and the only other thing I can think of would be to switch to rolling boils. It won't damage any of the goods, and SWIM's experience has always been better the warmer the water. Best of luck!
 
I have a very difficult history of relation with the vine.

Before the reverse tolerance kicked in for me I had to drink 600 g worth of caapi, 200 g of which were from Maya. That was my 8th brew and I am pretty sure I did it properly. I think I am very lucky not to drink mimosa on that epic journey. Now I get fully psychedelic caapi-only experience from 250 g of caapi.

There are so many interpersonal and intrapersonal variables! Slowly working upward for your caapi-only journey is a very sound advise. Get yourself used to the vine first.

From my personal experience. A glass of sparkling water at +1 hr sometimes launches me into hyperspace after I lost all hope.
 
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