Ammonia in place of lye?

[JesusBuiltMyHotRod]

Instead of making a lye/water soak on the plant material could one just soak the plant material in a solution of aqueous 10% ammonium hydroxide to base the alkaloids and be followed by NPS pulls to extract the alkaloids? I can only see pH or improper choice of ammonia solution as a problem. My friend figures that since the ammonia is dissolved in the water it should act similarly as a lye/water mix when mixed with napatha.

Any thoughts?

 

[Bassic]

No! Don't use ammonia, that shit is used to basify cocaine not dmt. We are not cooking crack here, I'd highly urge you to not use ammonia.

 

[moniker]

No! Don't use ammonia, that shit is used to basify cocaine not dmt. We are not cooking crack here, I'd highly urge you to not use ammonia.

Ammonia is also used in Iboga and LSA extractions so I don't think that there's anything wrong with ammonia in and of itself..
....no reason to be prejudiced against ammonia....
I just don't think it would work well for mimosa extractions for other more reasonable reasons.

 

[DreaMTripper]

Does it evap off? If it does How about using it instead of sod.carb on a spicey atetate reduced goo? Then gently heating to evap the ammonia and water?

 

[Bassic]

Lol no there's no reason to be prejudiced...I just hate the smell of it, and refuse to use it when there are much better easily accessible alternatives.

 

[benzyme]

better? what do you mean better?

more effective?

...

depends on the pKa of the compound. many alkaloids have a pKa around 9, the pH of household ammonia is usually around 12.6.

easily accessible alternatives? you know you can still get ammonia at grocery stores and hardware stores? it's an excellent glass cleaner, and disinfectant. I use it to clean the kitchen table, my computer screen, and stainless steel.

fyi...ammonia isn't only used to cook crack (actually, baking soda is more commonly used) any more than lye is only used to cook meth. that sort of whacked mentality is expected from lackies who believe sensationalist reports on the news. ammonia is used in MANY basifications, including preparation of the classic psychedelics (like LSD).

I just think what you have is an innate fear of certain chemicals. lots of people do.

 

[DreaMTripper]

Would this work?
Cool very small ammount of water in fridge then add small amount of sodium carbonate to increase alkalinity, add enough ammonia to get solution to pH 12.
Mix in the alkaloid acetate, leave it in room temp for ammonia to evaporate then put solution in the fridge for freebases to preciptate out.

 

[expandaneum]

Would this work?
Cool very small ammount of water in fridge then add small amount of sodium carbonate to increase alkalinity, add enough ammonia to get solution to pH 12.
Mix in the alkaloid acetate, leave it in room temp for ammonia to evaporate then put solution in the fridge for freebases to preciptate out.

yes it works even without ammonia.

 

[DreaMTripper]

Ah yeah of course sodium carbonate will get it to pH 9 as in the sodium carbonate water precip method.. I was thinking using ammonia as well so less solution is needed therefore its more concentrated meaning the precip is quicker.

 

[JesusBuiltMyHotRod]

No! Don't use ammonia, that shit is used to basify cocaine not dmt. We are not cooking crack here, I'd highly urge you to not use ammonia.

First, I laughed pretty hard when I read that, thank you. Second, both cocaine and DMT are alkaloids that are found in somewhat similar and related genus plants, to me it seems that a similar process might work on an alkaloid found in a similar plant. Besides, what makes ammonia any worse than lye? I don't know about you but getting blinded or burnt when you're mixing up lye water or from dropping the container sounds much worse to me.

Thank you benzyme for posting that, maybe some people will read that and think about it some. Lye, hydrochloric acid, phosphoric acid, napatha and xylene are all found in meth labs and some of those are even found in soda and on pretzels. Lots of things that you feel are bad or taboo or are perfectly acceptable in other situations (addictive drugs, IV anyone?) which makes it important for us to practice critical thinking rather than running on emotion.

I'm glad that this thread inspired a little discussion and thank you all for the replies.

 

[Infundibulum]

Depending on what you want to do, ammonia can be substituted for lye, or maybe not.

I'd be surprised to see an STB working with ammonia. And in an A/B even though ammonia will raise the pH high enough to freebase dmt, naphtha pulls yield poorly. You will need a different solvent, like DCM, xylene, limonene if you plan on using ammonia instead of lye.

The worst drawback of ammonia is the stench it leaves, as its fumes smell suspicious and are quite irritating. For these reasons alone I wouldn't use ammonia.

No! Don't use ammonia, that shit is used to basify cocaine not dmt. We are not cooking crack here, I'd highly urge you to not use ammonia.

First, I laughed pretty hard when I read that, thank you. Second, both cocaine and DMT are alkaloids that are found in somewhat similar and related genus plants, to me it seems that a similar process might work on an alkaloid found in a similar plant. Besides, what makes ammonia any worse than lye? I don't know about you but getting blinded or burnt when you're mixing up lye water or from dropping the container sounds much worse to me.

Definitely the ammonia=crack analogy is off, but let's move on.

Also, to the best of my knowledge coca plants are not related to legumes at all...(unless you think that since they are both angiosperms and dicots makes them related - in which case hands down). If ammonia works with dmt as it does with cocaine this is not because both of these alkaloids are from related plants but because dmt and cocaine are alkaloids. Which of course means that ammonia should work at freebasing any known and unknown alkaloid.

 

[JesusBuiltMyHotRod]

I know that coca isn't a legume and when I typed that up I was a little lit, I was thinking coca was related to coffee and same with Viridis or chacruna, but just goes to show why its always good to fact check yourself. Thinking that I was also figuring leaf material rather than root bark may be the way to go.

I appreciate your response too, you made some good points for my friend to consider. He has mostly just been dicking around and trying new ideas as they come up and seeing what comes out with some odd and interesting results so far.