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amor_fati's Guide to Juremala WIP

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Why does it have to dissolve rapidly; I guess because otherwise too much time for saliva to interact and go down the hatch.

Although SWIM is not quite ready for this experiment, the thought was that maybe a maple hard candy could be created:


Is this case at least (although there are many other recipes) the alkaloids could be probably added during the beating stage which happens at around 175 degrees. This version of maple candy technique usually brings the maple syrup first to about 235 degrees F, although I have seen variations whereby 300 is the objective.

Anyway, SWIM just thinks it curious all the possibilities for gel or candy like shapes, squares or rounds or molds that could be formed. Maybe this is one way candy-huas-cero's could make up for the lost time through which the medicine is imbibed with the intention healing energies: The magick of form, shape, and structural link: Choosing the appropriate mold symbol for one's given healing needs.

Maybe I just like the idea of CandyHuasca; a possible long way from Purgahuasca.

A possible blend, if you will, of Linga/muco and swallow-huasca...
 
amor_fati said:
Perhaps just high concentration windowpane-style gels? Whatever's used, it would have to dissolve fairly rapidly. How about gum? Like with gum arabic.
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well wouldn't it be better to just suck on the gummy until it dissolves giving the full dose a long time to trickle out and hit the mucus membranes under the tongue, also the buccal mucosa on the cheeks and the oropharynx on the way down. A low concentration gummy or candy or whatever would be more advantageous, wouldn't it?
 
q21q21 said:
amor_fati said:
Perhaps just high concentration windowpane-style gels? Whatever's used, it would have to dissolve fairly rapidly. How about gum? Like with gum arabic.
Click to expand...

well wouldn't it be better to just suck on the gummy until it dissolves giving the full dose a long time to trickle out and hit the mucus membranes under the tongue, also the buccal mucosa on the cheeks and the oropharynx on the way down. A low concentration gummy or candy or whatever would be more advantageous, wouldn't it?
Click to expand...

Well, SWIM's been getting incredibly strong effects from very little material doing it incredibly rapidly. If the candy is low concentration, smaller amounts of actives will be released to larger amounts of saliva (not to mention melted candy), and if it takes too long to dissolve, it may not be quite as potent as it could be. Anyway, this is all conjecture, but SWIM's not holding out for the reasons mentioned. Also, candy may not even successfully mask the flavor.

Besides, SWIM hasn't been having any nausea, just a horrible taste for a short while that's well worthwhile in consideration of the effects.
 
amor_fati said:
Trickster said:
Could you be more specific? How long would be enough? Is it OK to spit harmalas and spice after a certain time without a significant loss of goodies?
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Read SWIM's recent editions to the tek. SWIM doesn't wait, because with the way he does it, there's nothing to wait for. He absolutely does not spit anything out. He allows the tincture to coat his oral mucosa (under the tongue, as well as the lining of the throat). This would not work if one were to wait with the substance under their tongue, allowing the saliva to build up, as the buildup of saliva would dilute the tincture--dilution having two adverse effects: Washing the tincture too far down the digestive tract to contribute to the effects and reducing the rapidity of absorption into the mucous membrane.

Think of it like this: Your entire mouth and throat is coated with saliva at this very moment, yet you don't have to keep it there, it's just there. If you begin swallowing fairly rapidly, your mouth dries out, and the little bit of saliva left never really gets swallowed, it just coats your throat. To effectively use a tincture, SWIM finds it best to swallow his normal saliva and essentially allow the tincture to take its place in his mouth, starting from being spread under the tongue. Some of it will go into the throat, but it will be absorbed before it makes it too far.
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Still, do SWIY have an estimate for sufficient mucosa absorption time? A minute / five minutes / 10 minutes? The matter is that SWIM's got heavy burns last time experimenting with sublingual FV acetic tinctures and FB spice. So now a mere thought of putting something under her tongue fills her mouth with saliva. Hopefully DMSO will make absorption faster. When experimenting with DMSO SWIM noticed that the onset starts in 2-3 min after administering spice. What is SWIY experience? How soon do SWIY feels the symptoms?
 
Trickster said:
amor_fati said:
Trickster said:
Could you be more specific? How long would be enough? Is it OK to spit harmalas and spice after a certain time without a significant loss of goodies?
Click to expand...

Read SWIM's recent editions to the tek. SWIM doesn't wait, because with the way he does it, there's nothing to wait for. He absolutely does not spit anything out. He allows the tincture to coat his oral mucosa (under the tongue, as well as the lining of the throat). This would not work if one were to wait with the substance under their tongue, allowing the saliva to build up, as the buildup of saliva would dilute the tincture--dilution having two adverse effects: Washing the tincture too far down the digestive tract to contribute to the effects and reducing the rapidity of absorption into the mucous membrane.

Think of it like this: Your entire mouth and throat is coated with saliva at this very moment, yet you don't have to keep it there, it's just there. If you begin swallowing fairly rapidly, your mouth dries out, and the little bit of saliva left never really gets swallowed, it just coats your throat. To effectively use a tincture, SWIM finds it best to swallow his normal saliva and essentially allow the tincture to take its place in his mouth, starting from being spread under the tongue. Some of it will go into the throat, but it will be absorbed before it makes it too far.
Click to expand...

Still, do SWIY have an estimate for sufficient mucosa absorption time? A minute / five minutes / 10 minutes? The matter is that SWIM's got heavy burns last time experimenting with sublingual FV acetic tinctures and FB spice. So now a mere thought of putting something under her tongue fills her mouth with saliva. Hopefully DMSO will make absorption faster. When experimenting with DMSO SWIM noticed that the onset starts in 2-3 min after administering spice. What is SWIY experience? How soon do SWIY feels the symptoms?
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My friend can verify DMSO does help with both SR And DMT Acetate tinctures. He took both tinctures and evaped about 1/4 of the vinigar and replaced with DMSO. The improvment was significant and there was no burning noticed. He is trying a glycerin/DMSO blend now.
 
good mornin


SWIM messed something up he thinks :

The night left him with 30ml of tincture composed as :

1 of 30ml =
dark-fumarates 61mg
THH+ CaapialksHCL 18mg
some ml of water an 85% Glycerine
not to forget one drop of pure mintoil per 15ml were added

He thinks the actives are too dilluted now... aaand he hasnt got any harmala salts left .
What would you do now , amor fati ?

He just told me he has another 10ml tincture already , its only chaliponga alkaloids , nothing else added.
 
Observant said:
The night left him with 30ml of tincture composed as :

1 of 30ml =
dark-fumarates 61mg
THH+ CaapialksHCL 18mg
some ml of water an 85% Glycerine
not to forget one drop of pure mintoil per 15ml were added

He thinks the actives are too dilluted now... aaand he hasnt got any harmala salts left .
What would you do now , amor fati ?
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Yikes, that's a really low ratio of harmaloids. SWIM would probably wait and add more harmaloids. SWIM always keeps harmaloids separate from the spice and just mixes them when it comes time to administer.
 
so as promised SWIM tried the gummy-candy method.

The results seemed totally equipotent to that of sublingual administration.

SWIM took 50mg of rue harmalas and 60mg of jimjam acetates and put into a single ice-cube tray.

He wanted to make sure the dosage was correct and none of the actives were lost so the mix with jello and tapioca starch was mixed into the tincture, this made for a more-gooey and less tasty gummy.

Once the gummy had cooled in the fridge it was a little less firm than typical jello, he took 1/2 of it and proceeded to suck on it, he made sure to swish the saliva+actives all around his mouth before swallowing as it built up.

It tasted very bad, but not nearly as bad as the plain tincture, SWIM thinks he could make it taste "weird" instead of "gross" maybe even "good"... maybe

As soon as the gummy was the size of a pea (started about the size of a large grape) he squeezed it through his teeth, swished it around and swallowed it slower over 3 gulps.

The exact same process was to be done with the second half until he was about 1/2 way through it and at his computer his mouse was tracing, he looked up and waved and so was his hand. As much as SWIM believed his tolerance was plently high to not have a fully-psychedelic trip on this dose, amor-fati's confidence in mucosahuasca gave him a little nerves and he spat out the partially dissolve glob into a shot glass.

SWIM sat down and observed his state, it seemed that it was mostly harmaline effecting him, though for him harmaline doesn't give him tracers, DMT does, so he waited for 20 minutes.

He was pretty much the same then so he consumed the remainder of the gummy in the same method.


In the end the seemed to potentiate the harmalas A LOT and just like every other time he's tried sublingually, potentiated the DMT only slightly.

DMT is subject to the body's tolerance greatly. SWIM has no doubt about it.

SWIM will try it again, probably with 40mg rue, 90mg jimjam acetates and lots more sugar and a bit more gelatin.
 
Are the harmaloids vital to the absorbtion , or would a plain spice tincture work if the Mao has been inhibited orally ?
 
Oh and I just realized that we have the key to Mucosahuasca del Funghi :)
SWIM might xperiment with Liberty Caps , they only contain Psilocybin (thats why they dont stain blue) .

Do you think Psilocybin is absorbable by the oral mucosa ?
SWIM should also add Vit C to he tincture then , right ?

deoxy.org | E=±mc²=Thé Ðëòxÿríßøñµçlëìç HÿÞêrdïmèñsîøñ

deoxy.org deoxy.org

It is the stomachs reaction todifficult to digest food that is the sickness. So theygoal would be to elliminate the stomach, or by pass it.These extraction teks can do that. By making the extractvery potent and using good filtration technique, theproduct can be consumed by mouth so that the salivaand the mucous membranes in the mouth do most of the job.So when anything of the extract reached the stomach, it isbasically digested leaving the stomach with nothing to dowhich results in no stomach upset - just the trip. Thisis the greatest idea in magic shroom history. To elliminatethe ugly physical effects is a real godsend. It makesit all totally superb and beyond any known psychedelicin entheogenic quality and potency.
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Observant said:
Are the harmaloids vital to the absorbtion , or would a plain spice tincture work if the Mao has been inhibited orally ?
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that can work, but sublingual harmalas are WAAAAY more potent than oral. SWIM has gotten similar effects off of 50mg sublingually as 175mg orally.
 
Swim tried 50mg n-oxide and 60mg harmalas in a sublingual tincture. Nice results kinda like a mushroom trip but shorter. However swims gf seems to have no effects (not even flowing wood-grain) from the same amount. Is is possible some people are resistant to a maoi? Shroom tea and smoked spice work fine for her. edit: 50mg smoked harmalas was also active.
 
Forgive me if this question has already been answered, but I'd like to know if, for the purposes of lingua- / mucosa-huasca, the only advantage of making a fumarate / glycerine / H2O tincture is accurate dropwise dosing? Or does the tincture have increased bioavailability / faster sublingual absorption than dry fumarate crystals alone?
 
TheAppleCore said:
Forgive me if this question has already been answered, but I'd like to know if, for the purposes of lingua- / mucosa-huasca, the only advantage of making a fumarate / glycerine / H2O tincture is accurate dropwise dosing? Or does the tincture have increased bioavailability / faster sublingual absorption than dry fumarate crystals alone?
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SWIM finds powders and crystals a bit rough on the soft tissue, but it should work. SWIM would imagine that, depending on the fineness of the product, it may not absorb quite as rapidly, though SWIM's gotten 30mg THH HCl to absorb quite quickly under the tongue by simply spreading and rubbing it in; it was rather painful, though.
 
Is it possible the Glycerin Tincture making formula could be reiterated please. I cannot seem to find it. IT is probably in this thread already so I apologize. I'll re-read it and do a search. I would like to make my own Harmala tincture for sublingual. I am also unsure as to which form (salt/freebase) is preferable for both the tincture making, and for the actually process in the mouth -- for both harmala and Full spectrum Dmitrius tinctures. I did read that the freebase burns and is harder on the mouth with Dmitirus, but am unsure as to, in the mouth, which form is superior for absorption with Harmalas as well. It seems something enzymatically different is going on in the mouth that changes the picture. It has always been my understanding that salt form is better for digestive route, freebase for smoking, but am still a little unsure (comfortability aside) which form for both harmalas and Dmitrius is the more desirable for absorption and process altogether.
Thank you for your consideration knowledgeable ones...
 
The only advantage SWIM's aware of concerning administration of freebase is the lack of acids (freebase burns horrendously on its own when insuffulated), but SWIM doesn't understand how it would possibly absorb better than a salt.

For fumarate/glycerine tinctures:
Amor fati's Guide to Juremala - DMT-Nexus Wiki
amor_fati's Guide to Juremala WIP - Other - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus
amor_fati said:
SWIM made a new spice tincture by placing 1.3g spice fumarate (~1g freebase) in a 15mL dropper bottle, filling with glycerin and water at ~1:2, placing in a hot water bath and shaking vigorously. So that's 66mg/mL of DMT and about 2.3mg/drop. SWIM would need maybe 10-15 drops for linguahuasca. SWIM will likely try this with a harmine/harmaline/THH combo at 2:1:1 w/ 20 drops (70mg) total.
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Thanks Amor_, BTW, is there any specific reason you haven't adapted the "spice acetate" to a glycerin formula, especially being that you add a little vinegar back to the fumerate/glycerin formula. It's just I've read some reports of yucky-ness taste coming from the straight vinegar formulas. And I'm just not sure why with acetate, glycerin isn't also included in the recipe...

Also, would you be interested in amending your sublingual Wiki to include recipes for rue and caapi harmala tinctures.

I'm curious which form of Harmalas, hydrochloride or freebase, would be preferable for the harmala tincture making process.
I'm guessing one would dissolve more readily than the other in glycerin/water.

Now that I realize I can switch back and forth between the 2, by either finishing the manske with basing Sodium Carbonate= freebase, or back to the manske for the salts...
 
well glycerin, alcohol, and water are the three solvents used the most in tinctures...glycerin has some neat properties though..it seems to grab tannins and allow the other molecules to roam free and not precipitate...its also SWEET..so it sorta helps to hide the taste of alkaloids..

it also doesnt burn like high test alcohol or strong acidic liquids
 
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