anal / rectal administration revisited: DMT as well as bufotenin

[monkeyboy]

Swim has been doing all kinds of research and coming up quite short on info.

There's a nexus member who stated that rectal admin of ayahuasca was about 3X as potent than taking it orally. Other than that, NOTHING in the way of numbers/figures save a Johnathan Ott article stating 50mg bufotenin combined with 10mg harmaline was said to be psychoactive (and even still there is no distinction between freebase or salt form as he goes between the two in the article without specifiying what it is for above mentioned mixture)

Swim has read lots of congecture about needing to use the salt form, and saw a user report where freebase DMT caused rectal bleeding.

Fumeric salt it is.

Swim is comfortable using rectal syringe with salts disolved in appropriate amount of water. He has taken several other drugs using this route with fantastic results! - coke, MDMA, ketamine, and combinations thereof- slower onset, peak feels to last longer but not quite as much of a peak, comedown is almost always MUCH more gentle and swim notices considerably less in the hangover department - not as many metabolites produced as chems dont interact with stomach acid.

So... anyone with anectdotal info- dosages etc? Swim would like to see what DMT fumerate is like straight without MAOI- a projected duration of 1 hour seems ideal. Any ideas/links/info regarding dose, salt-freebase, with/without mao added- for BOTH DMT and Bufotenin would be VERY appreciated.

 

[monkeyboy]

a post... found on another forum:

""Read the book Anadenanthera By Constantino Manuel Torres, David B. Repke. It mentions native enema use of Yopo in many different places in the book all supported by various different researchers. Page 80 is one such page that talks about it." -69Ron

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"12 cebil seeds were dry fried on hob at high temp for about 1 min. Most popped.

Seeds were de-shelled and the shells discarded.

Seeds were easily ground into a fine powder and mixed with approx. equal amount of sodium bicarbonate.

7ml of water at about 50oC were mixed in to the powder, the watery paste that formed was drawn into a syringe (there was a ml or 2 left) and the dose administered.

There is instruction on administering enema elsewhere on this site.

Within 3-5 mins a strong and not exactly pleasant warmth, slight sweating was felt in the chest and the head. The candidate had thought that 20mins retention was necessary but given the fast onset went to defacuate after five mins.

A small amount of liquid came out which burned slightly but nothing compared to a vindaloo.

By the time of leaving the bathroom, patterns were forming on the wall.
Candidate then lay down, strong CEVs rapidly developed, along with heat and pulsing all round the body and fast beating heart which made Candidate feel uncomfortable and somewhat anxious. There was fortunately no nausea at any time. Candidate kept eyes shut for the duration but feels OEVs would have been quite strong.

Crazy strong CEVS for 20 to 30 mins, felt like inside a tunnnel, and after that it died down over another 20 mins but Candidate did not have clock nearby so just guessing. The heat and pulsing head and body started to die down after about 20mins and maybe after 40 min the Candidate felt quite fine and from there on very relaxed and comfortable.

It was the Candidates first time on a DMT compound and the Candidate found the visuals very crazy but enjoyable." -Fraaga

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"swim has successfully used traditional yopo with lime blended smooth rectally before. and POW! to the moon! INTENSE internal pains that began almost instantly and then passed soon, spasms, then vision in the minds eye and intense sensations." - fiveleggedrat

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A (small?) dose of MAOI might help with first pass metabolism, potentiation, and also likely extend the trip duration.

No nausea, but careful with the PH... using this route, the trip is said to be a bit like LSD.

Also it would be wise to use a base (calcium carbonate?) other than Lime for rectal application .

Also filled cold cocoa butter is often used as a suppository. Powdering the cebil may help too.
Blessings.

"
link to said forum omitted as I am unsure of the rules regarding this within this forum

 

[DMTripper]

How about anal administration of MHRB?
Has anyone tried that?

 

[Apoc]

Swim has been doing all kinds of research and coming up quite short on info.

There's a nexus member who stated that rectal admin of ayahuasca was about 3X as potent than taking it orally.

If they're talking about caapi/harmalas, then I agree. Unfortunately, that is not the case with dmt.

Swim is comfortable using rectal syringe with salts disolved in appropriate amount of water. He has taken several other drugs using this route with fantastic results! - coke, MDMA, ketamine, and combinations thereof- slower onset, peak feels to last longer but not quite as much of a peak, comedown is almost always MUCH more gentle and swim notices considerably less in the hangover department - not as many metabolites produced as chems dont interact with stomach acid.

You shouldn't have a hangover from dmt/ayahuasca. More like an afterglow. Both oral and anal will produce an afterglow. I don't know about coke and mdma... yuck.

How about anal administration of MHRB?
Has anyone tried that?

Why yes, I tried it today. It all started when I did a CWE of 4g of mimosa. I tried to drink in, but I just couldn't. I'M SORRY!!!!!! I couldn't! I estimate there was about 3g worth after I took a few sips. There was about 50ml of liquid. I thought I had failed. I felt terrible about throwing away that mimosa water, and then I realized..... there is one other option for the liquid.

I added about 4g worth of syrian rue extract in to the brew, and plugged it. Definite heavy body load within 10 minutes, and peaking within 20 minutes. It has a fast and strong onset. But it's not the same as the oral route. The anal route might feel a bit more like a smoke, only not as strong as a big smoke. It's like somewhere in between a smoke and an oral dose, but not quite either one. It's not quite as strong as a smoke, and somehow lacks the majesty of an oral dose. Maybe like a sub breakthrough smoke that lasts a good while. The psychedelic effects lasted about 45 minutes to an hour, followed by a few hours of a very nice afterglow which is still lingering 4 hours later. I think the various methods of administration affect different areas of the brain. Either that, or taking it orally affects the chemistry with the interaction with stomach and liver. Taking it orally seems to awaken more areas of the brain and not overpower one single area. This experience was heavy on the harmalas. The good news about dosing in such a way is that it can be done without any nausea.

I've tried both harmalas and dmt anally and I can say that the harmalas work better anally than dmt. I think the anal route is definitely the best route for the harmalas. They'll hit hard and fast. But for some reason, dmt just doesn't seem to get absorbed well that way. I could tell from this trip, the harmalas were working powerfully, and while the dmt was there, it felt on the light side. Anal dmt does work, but I'd say it's more like half as potent as the oral route combined with harmalas. However, harmalas themselves taken anally might be more potent than taking them orally or sublingually.

So, to sum up what to expect from anal administration....

- It hits fast. 20 minutes to get all the way up
- It lasts about an hour
- powerful heavily subdued initial body load
- dmt feels less potent taken this way, but harmalas feel more potent.

also, realize that whatever you insert anally does not get filtered by the liver, but instead goes right in to the bloodstream. If you take a mimosa enema, your body will suck up some of the plant acids and fats. It seems to be fine for me with the ayahuasca plants, but just so you know, taking things anally is closer to injecting than swallowing. Plus, large anal doses of very acidic mimosa brews may not be good for the intestines. Seems fine though. No discomfort at the dose I took. I actually put a little bit of baking soda in the mimosa tea to reduce the acidity.

 

[obliguhl]

Good work, I've been wanting to do this for a long time.
I can add, that fumarates without an maoi do not seem to work anally.

 

[prottel]

I find that dmt acetate works without any maoi when taken rectally. You need more than if you used a maoi. Maybe triple the dose. Should definitely be noticeable.

I have not noticed much of a potentiation of harmalas when taken rectally. Find it more difficult to hold in than dmt, so I prefer taking the harmalas orally, then the dmt 20 minutes later. Taking dmt this way, is at least as strong or somewhat stronger than when taking it orally, but it lasts for a shorter duration than orally.

 

[Rivea]

I wonder how much DMT or Harmalas that the liver metabolizes because of the hepatic portal blood flow that goes from the rectum and intestines first thorough the liver before being delivered to general circulation? According to this article there is some blood even from the lower intestine that still gets routed to the liver.

Hepatic portal system - Wikipedia

Is there a doctor in the house to comment?

 

[Jees]

Bump and:

i'm no phd so i must ask:
why do is see everywhere that with oral things go trough liver first, only then it goes in the blood.
BUT
Is the liver not a blood filter?
Meaning, that everything that enters the liver, must have been in the blood FIRST, no?


* * * *

The stomach is a real game spoiler, that outlet-valve, the pylorus is holding back content, even for hours and hours, before it releases. I must really eat to get the stomach emptied.

The pyloric sphincter, or valve, is a strong ring of smooth muscle at the end of the pyloric canal which lets food pass from the stomach to the duodenum.

I hear also stories about actives parked in the gall bladder, and one must wait to release gal in the gut, wait for this, wait for that, my god what else.

 

[Infundibulum]

Bump and:

i'm no phd so i must ask:
why do is see everywhere that with oral things go trough liver first, only then it goes in the blood.
BUT
Is the liver not a blood filter?
Meaning, that everything that enters the liver, must have been in the blood FIRST, no?

No.

The route substances follow after oral administration is mouth-->eye bulb-->rectum-->liver-->rectum (again)-->bladder-->brain (finally).

The very same thing happens with food, with the only difference being that the final destination is not the brain but the pancreas.

 

[Jees]

Sorry I had to do some homework better before asking, it shows that the blood veins that conduct the actives from intestines (Portal Veins) toward the liver are separated from the general bloodstream.

I thought there was a fair interchange between the portal blood veins and the general bloodstream somewhere outside the liver, it seems not so.

Link to Wikipedia on "First pass effect"[/url]]...After a drug is swallowed, it is absorbed by the digestive system and enters the hepatic portal system. It is carried through the portal vein into the liver before it reaches the rest of the body... This first pass through the liver thus greatly reduces the bioavailability of the drug. Alternative routes of administration like suppository...avoid the first-pass effect because they allow drugs to be absorbed directly into the systemic circulation...

Infund you almost got my appetite ruined

 

[obliguhl]

Has anyone tried to blow DMT vapor inside (rectally) ? Serious question.

 

[expandaneum]

I think its not really a practical way to administer dmt how would you even get the vapor in there its not like you can suck it in.

Also I think the result would be the same as applying a thin layer of freebase on the inside of your rectum .

If you do the experiment please let us know or better ad a picture for explanatory reasons:grin:

 

[Purges]

Has anyone tried to blow DMT vapor inside (rectally) ? Serious question.

Blowback maybe? I imagine it would be difficult to find a willing accomplice. Can't help but imagine it resulting in a big DMT fart though

 

[BecometheOther]

blow dmt vapour inside? lol that is just way too much man.

I assume you would need another person present to take the hits and blow them in your butthole? That would be one really good friend!

 

[obliguhl]

That would be one really good friend!

Or a partner....

It's indeed the question wether or not this would lead to a better absorbtion rate than regular freebase or fumarates. My idea would be either to sit on a water bong and let the pressure suck it in, or quickly suck up the vapor in an enema or syringe and then apply before it recrystallizes. I imagine it wouldn't be a totally hassle free administration method.

 

[cyb]

Volcano Bag and a Hose...:surprised​

 

[steppa]

I think its not really a practical way to administer dmt how would you even get the vapor in there its not like you can suck it in.

You can. Look at the wiki it's called Mindlusion's Rectal Insufflation Tek aka 'sniffthebutt' tek :thumb_up:

"If you open your sphincter muscle connecting your small intestine to your stomach, and simultaneously burp, it creates a negative pressure that can be used to insufflate a substance through your rectum."

When I read this I somehow imagine an ass hanging over a mirror insufflating lines. Pretty hillarious.

 

[obliguhl]

I cannot believe I am about to feed this thought....

What's wrong with it?
Excellent suggestion though! i didn't know such a device existed. Seems like the perfect solution, really

 

[3rdI]

this thread is brilliant

:lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[Michal_R]

this thread is brilliant

I also think so... looking forward to "the right moment" to try this TEK myself sometime