Ancestors

[opensourcereality9]

I've heard that McKenna turned various shamans on to DMT and it appalled them. They pretty much said "Yup... those are the ancestors."

Do y'all think that maybe after being roasted by the ancestors in hyperspatial purgatory, even a professional shaman has a personal spiritual apocalypse/renaissance of their own that they believed in, but never thought was possible to such a realistic degree?

 

[Koornut]

I remember the first time I had DMT, I had ICAROS playing in the background because I desperately wanted healing.

And low and behold, what I wanted to experience - from my point of view, it happened.

I think the same applies to elves, characters from adventure time, hyperspacial octopi over minds etc.

Welcome to the nexus

 

[opensourcereality9]

I obviously have MUCH to learn regarding language and music lol. Thanks for the welcome!

 

[FuseAll]

Well ,you can be sure about that you inherit the information from your predecesors . And somehow , the DMT has something in common with dna and genetics with counsciousness (that's speculation on my back , so whatever , trust it or not , even me myself its not sure about it , but I have some kind of insight that , that's the way i should keep researching on ) .
Sciencies like epigenetics show us that traumas or ceirtain behaviours , diseases ... could be inhereted generation after generation .

It's also that the Bible (Im a non doctrin man , Im not religious neither )( evendo , the Bible talks about many interesting knowlege , that in my opinion it's worth analizing ) mentions that . Exactly in Exodus 34:6-7 ( Bible Gateway passage: Exodus 34:6-7 - Expanded Bible ) Talks about how the sins ( or guilts) from the parents , will be inherited untill the 3rd and 4th generation . What doesent mention it's that also the positive existencial aspects are also inherited .

Evendo , if you are interested in researching more about this topic , I can tell you about look up some of the work of Anne Ancelin Schützenberger , and her books like The Ancestor Syndrome and others . Also Alejandro Jodorowsky books about Evolutive Psicogenealogy are very interesting. Here you have some info about what im talking about --> ( Phone Tracker Free | Mobile Tracker | Cell Phone Tracking App )
Jhon Read talks about it too .

As DMT use in chamanic context is meant to have healing effect to traumas and illneses and those ( the traumas ) have relations with ancestors . Shamans figured out this loong ago .

Whatever , I might extend myself moar , but I see it unnecesary . Just research if u are interested in the topic .


Im sorry for my bad english ( learning english here in the nexus :d ) Im not a native speaker , but im trying my best !

Cya in Hyperspace !

Good Luck !
&
Have Fun !

 

[WisdomTooth]

DMT shifts you to the quantum

 

[entheogenic-gnosis]

I've heard that McKenna turned various shamans on to DMT and it appalled them. They pretty much said "Yup... those are the ancestors."

Do y'all think that maybe after being roasted by the ancestors in hyperspatial purgatory, even a professional shaman has a personal spiritual apocalypse/renaissance of their own that they believed in, but never thought was possible to such a realistic degree?

You may have it a tiny bit backwards, the shamans have had DMT since antiquity* and it was the shamans who gave the DMT to mckenna.

*

Human beings have used DMT and 5-MeO-DMT in the form of the various entheogenic snuffs used in the Amazon basin for at least 2000 years, perhaps longer. These include yá-kee, yá-to, and yopo, in Colombia, epéna in Brazil and Venezuela, and paricá and nyakwána in Brazil. These snuffs are derived from the seeds of Anadenanthera species and various species of Virola, a genus of trees in the nutmeg family. Traditionally these snuffs are administered by forcefully blowing a mixture of powdered plant material up another person’s nose, sometimes using the hollowed-out bone of a bird’s leg. This rather painful method of delivery produces an out-of-body experience of approximately the same duration as smoking synthetic 5-MeO-DMT, during which the shaman undergoes a “journey” While on this journey, the shaman undergoes a transformation that allows him or her to obtain significant knowledge from direct interaction with the gods.

The origins of ayahuasca, and indeed of the tryptamine snuffs themselves, may be much older than we can realize, as they appear to predate written records, but there does seem to be some evidence that indicates that ayahuasca is the more recent invention. The first ethnographic record of ayahuasca use come from 1855, so we can be confident that it has been in use for a couple of hundred years at least. Archeological evidence of the use of the 5-MeO-DMT snuffs reach back further than the ethnographic evidence of ayahuasca use, but current speculation suggests that there could be an upper limit of detecting tryptamine alkaloids in archeological artifacts of around 1,500 to 2,000 years.”

~ James Oroc, Tryptamine Palace. (2009)

The bold section of this quote must be what you were referring to**, and it involves the shamans telling mckenna that hyperspatial beings are "ancestors" or "dead people"

**

Well so then here’s another possibility. They are human beings. But they are not in the future in the ordinary sense or in the past. They are in the pre-natal and post-life phase. In other words these are either the unborn waiting in some limbo like dimension to descend into matter. Or they are in fact people who have had a sojourn in the domain of organic existence, and now have moved on. Let me not kid you, we’re talking about dead people here in that case. Well if you go to the shamans who access these places through Ayahuasca or the Virola snuffs or something like that. They will say ‘Well these are our ancestors. Didn’t you read Mircea Eliade. Don’t you know that shamanism works through ancestor magic?’ Well “ancestor” is a tremendously sanitized term for “dead people”. -terence mckenna

-eg

 

[○]

Don't have much to add aside from my opinions.

Before I ever listened to Terence or anything having to do with death/deceased/ancestors, the space always has had this quality to me that feels like an intermediate zone, something that subsumes all of reality yet it's not held down by it; it's nowhere in particular because it IS reality. We don't go anywhere when death comes, because it's all here, it's all everywhere. Within and without.

I agreed with Terence back when he mentioned 'dead ancestors' as 'not being aunt minny and uncle ned", but something much different from that. This I tend to agree with.

 

[entheogenic-gnosis]

Terence mckenna borrowed this "ancestor" notion from the Amazonian shamans, it appears that mckenna had notions of contact with dead people (amoung other beings) long before his contact with shamans*, though it was the shamans who further confirmed this notion for him.


*(one of the motivating factors for searching for "oo-koo-hey" ( a Virola theiodora resin preparation) was that in R.E. Schultes paper on the snuffs contact with "little men" was mentioned, and this reminded mckenna of his "DMT tykes" )

if you press a shaman, if you say, 'Well, what exactly is a helping spirit?' They say, 'Well, a helping spirit is an ancestor.' You say, 'You mean to tell me that those are dead people in there?' They say, 'Well, yes, ancestor, dead person. You didn't know about ancestors apparently. This is what happens to people who die.' And you say, 'My God, is it possible that what we're breaking into here is an ecology of souls?' That these are not extraterrestrials from Zenebelganooby or Zeta Reticula Beta. These are the dear departed. And they exist in a realm which, for want of a better word, let's call eternity. And somehow this drug, or whatever it is, is allowing me to see across the veil. -terence mckenna

-------


Here I find Mark J. Plotkin describing entities which I once heard terence mckenna describe, but I can't find the mckenna lecture or transcription...

Epena snuffs creates first a feelings of bravado, and the men leave the large round-house to fight off evil spirits (the hekuri) about to harm the tribe. Following the expenditure of so much energy, they return to the house and take more snuff and engage in strange movements, mimicking animals. Following a period of lethargy, they sink into a deep sleep disturbed by frightening visual hallucinations.” ~ Mark J. Plotkin

Another quote related to these snuffs and these beings:

The old shaman placed a bamboo shoot filled with hallucinogenic snuff against Mark Plotkin's left nostril and blew into the tube. Plotkin's head snapped back, he recalls, as if he "had been hit with a war club." Little men began dancing before his eyes. He asked the shaman who they were. "They are the hekuri," the wise man replied, "the spirits of the forest."

~ In Search of the Shamans’ Vanishing Wisdom, Time.com’s Hero of the Week: Mark Plotkin, January 4th, 1999.

~ Mark J. Plotkin,

This has been driving me crazy, I can't find this transcribed anywhere and I can't remember what lecture it was from, or I.would transcribe it myself, terence mckenna is telling a story about epena or niopo snuff in the Amazon, and he tells of the natives describing "bouncing demons" or it sounds like he calls them "heruki" "hey-roo-key" or some such name, he says these bouncing demons jump into your chest, and that the men of the tribe had some technique for trapping them there, and that the more of these things that you could collect in your body/chest, the stronger your shamanic and physical abilities would be, it's said that having a good deal of these things collected in your body would make you very hard to knock off your feet or to knock over, and the men of the tribe would actually have matches of punching each other in the chest...I can't find it any place and it's been driving me crazy.

-------

Back on topic:
Here mckenna mentions giving smoked DMT to Amazonian shamans and again getting the "ancestor" response, this May have been what the original post was referencing.

OK - that's one metaphor for what it is. Another metaphor is... I took this stuff to Tibetans, to the Amazon. I gave it to Tibetans, they said "this is the lesser lights, the lesser lights of the Bardo. You cannot go further into the Bardo and return. This takes you as far as you can go." When I gave it to shamanss in the Amazon, they said "It's strong - but this is, these are the ancestors. These are the spirits that we work with. These are ancestor souls. We know this place." Well then, the third and final metaphor, because when you're in that place you have such complex emotions - very complex emotions - something weird is going on with time, because you perceive your body image as infantile. You seem to have a very large head, and a very small body, and very short limbs. And, you know, I dunno what that's about...

Then the last facet of it that I want to mention is: there is this "you must be on your toes" thing - don't let these guys get behind you. They are tricky. And their elfin humor may not be your idea of a good time.

~ Terence McKenna
from a taped lecture

-eg