Anxiety relief through psychedelics

[Wax]

Recently I have re-introduced my Mother to marijuana, she used to smoke as a teen and quit up until she retired and is now occasionally smoking and taking tincture I made her.
This is a huge step in our relationship because it has allowed me to be somewhat more open about my use of substances.

I still haven't got the courage to tell her about my LSD, DMT, salvia, mescaline, or MDMA use but I have hinted around about mushrooms
She used to be into partying in highschool and says she used to smoke weed and has used speed a few times but not excessively so.
The point being I feel she is likely to be open to what I may have to say about entheogens (even though she almost killed me when she found out I smoked weed in highschool)

She has been taking xanax and other anti anxiety medication for 18 years now and has been experiencing major anxiety attacks. Even waking up "freaking out".
It really bothers me to see that she has these issues because she is an amazing person and doesn't seem like she would have these types of problems.
What bothers me even more than the fact that she has severe anxiety is that she is taking all these medications to mask it, she says sometimes she even pops all her pills and drinks alcohol on top of it just to get to sleep.

Since our relationship is becoming a lot more open and she is open to cannabis, I would love to talk to her about other psychedelics and the possibility of them helping her with her anxiety.
The problem is I'm not sure what substance to recommend to herl

I know that LSD and psilocybin are being used to treat end of life anxiety for terminal patients, but normal anxiety and end of life anxiety are a little different to say the least.
Personally I feel that LSD would be easier on her and more controllable, but it is few and far between that I ever get a chance at grabbing any up.
Also with all the weird DOx stuff going around I'm a little weary of "LSD" especially for my mom!

I really enjoy mescaline but I think it may be a little too long of an experience for her to handle.
It seems that mushrooms would be the most logical choice but in my personal experience they can be too pushy and confusing for working out emotional problems.

I would really appreciate any suggestions you all may have.
Thanks!

 

[idtravlr]

Hi archaic_architect. That's a tough one because anxiety and psychedelics can often be a double edged sword. Sometimes psych's help with anxiety and sometime they make it worse. I've struggled with balancing the two my whole life. I actually quit cannabis years ago because it GAVE me such bad anxiety. Seems counter intuitive, but it's true.

From my personal experience I would say that mdma or micro-doses of mushrooms are best for short term relief from anxiety. The problem with mdma however is that once you're down, and your neurotransmitters have been depleted, rebound anxiety can be even worse. I've had the most success with micro-dosing mushrooms, but have issues with inconsistent potency and tolerance issues. There's really not an easy solution.

I am curious about one thing however:
When you say "I would love to talk to her about other psychedelics and the possibility of them helping her with her anxiety", are you talking about short term, situational relief of symptoms, or are talking about some sort of longer term, psychedelic therapy? The former is really nothing more than masking the symptoms, as you stated she is already doing with her other medications. The latter is probably a better means to a long term solution, but it's definitely an inexact, under-explored, and very unpredictable science. MAPS is probably doing the most work in this area yet it's still very much in it's infancy.

Good luck and I'm sorry I can't offer more help.
-idt

 

[Wax]

Thanks for the reply idtravlr.
MDMA would definitely help short term but I think that there may be some underlying issues she needs to work out with herself and MDMA has a somewhat shallow effect in the long run.
When I say that I think psychedelics could help her, I am talking about long term, there are so many things to mask the short term affects of anxiety but I think psychedelics and exploration of the inner self is the only true cure so to speak.
That being said I think that occasional micro dose mushrooms leading up to a strong dose may be the way to go.

 

[Hyperspace Fool]

Thanks for the reply idtravlr.
MDMA would definitely help short term but I think that there may be some underlying issues she needs to work out with herself and MDMA has a somewhat shallow effect in the long run.
When I say that I think psychedelics could help her, I am talking about long term, there are so many things to mask the short term affects of anxiety but I think psychedelics and exploration of the inner self is the only true cure so to speak.
That being said I think that occasional micro dose mushrooms leading up to a strong dose may be the way to go.

Ayahuasca or maybe psilohuasca are the best long term choices IMO. They might make her confront her anxiety head on though, and could be dramatic at first.

Actually, I would try to ween her off xanax, and replace it with the occasional dissociative therapy. This is bound to be controversial, but, I find that light dissos can be built up to a high level without freaking people out too badly. There are a number of hard nuts that I would never think to take on a shroom trip who were able to break down some walls with things like MXE.

This is not an endorsement or recommendation to go out and hook your mom up with some RCs. Whatever you decide to do, don't rush into anything, do your research, and be smart. Maybe it would be easiest to just get her to take some yoga classes, take up meditation, or spend some time outdoors.

 

[Wax]

Haha, ya I'm not going to give my mom an RC.

I've yet to experience ayahuasca so I can't vouch for that one.
Is psilohuasca more grounded than straight mushrooms?
In your opinion what are the advantages and disadvantages of psilohuasca?

If I was to convince her to try something I would advise the quitting of most of her medications a few weeks prior if possible.
Also I have recommended meditation, we will see if she pursues it.

 

[Hyperspace Fool]

Haha, ya I'm not going to give my mom an RC.

I've yet to experience ayahuasca so I can't vouch for that one.
Is psilohuasca more grounded than straight mushrooms?
In your opinion what are the advantages and disadvantages of psilohuasca?

If I was to convince her to try something I would advise the quitting of most of her medications a few weeks prior if possible.
Also I have recommended meditation, we will see if she pursues it.

Yeah, taking mushrooms with an MAOI (RIMA actually) makes them much more ayahuasca-like and eliminates a lot of the "pushy & confusing" thing you mentioned in the OP. It can change the character of the experience considerably, even the visual aesthetic. For most people I know, psilohuasca is preferable... but depending on the shrooms, it can take more material. It is usually acceptable to start with no mushrooms and just get used to the harmala effect (calming and expansive -- not unlike dissociatives). Then you can add bits of shroomage (or other tryptamines) until you reach the right level. This is also gentler on people who wouldn't deal well with a typical mushroom come up.


Note: If you decide to get into the -huascas, and you probably should, just make sure you understand the potential interactions (and don't forget them while on your journey). While some of the MAOI diet might be dismissable with the usual suspect RIMAs... many things can be extremely problematic. Caffeine, stimulants of any kind, and especially prescription drugs are at the top of that list.

One last thing. There are a number of psychedelic dissociatives that are not RCs and have a lengthy history of use. This doesn't mean that they are better than the newer ones. They tend to be (subjectively at least) heavier on the body. I won't push this avenue, but the boundary dissolving aspects of dissociatives make them especially suited to dealing with anxiety issues, rigid thought structures and the like.

Also, I'm not sure if giving your mom a (basically) legal RC is actually any worse an idea than giving her an illegal psychedelic. Just saying.

 

[۩]

Also, I'm not sure if giving your mom a (basically) legal RC is actually any worse an idea than giving her an illegal psychedelic. Just saying.

When I see posts like this, I see addiction written all over it.

 

[Wax]

Thanks HF I will have to try out psilohuasca for myself before I recommend it to her but it sounds like a good option.
I understand the interactions and would definitely be working with her on diet and weening off of the medications prior to any experience, even if it was without an MAOI.

I will probably steer clear of the dissociative route just because of my limited experience with them.
I have only used DXM a few times and I would like to have more experience with the substance I choose for her.

I'm not worried about the legal ramifications of using illegal psychedelics as much as the potential health risks of RC's that have not been time tested.
I will most likely be sticking to LSD if I can find some good clean stuff, mushrooms, or psilohuasca once I have a little experience with it.
Also I never thought about just doing a plain caapi brew for her but I haven't had much experience with caapi either.

I think I am going to narrow my original question a little more to see what you guys think about specific options.
What are some people's opinions on the advantages and disadvantages of a caapi only brew over plain mushrooms or psilohuasca?

 

[InMotion]

I highly recommend low dosages with people the 'sufferer' trusts. Don't set up like a healer/heal-ee dichotomy. This is counter productive! Dose together, preferably the same dose-age range and somewhere outside with friends. So one person isn't watching the other puke for 4 hours inbetween cries to the proverbial sky-gods:lol:.

High-doses are where the double edged sword comes into play. Low-doses there are almost NO side-effects, and even someone with a low self-esteem can tolerate them. The company creates a sense of unity(critical for anxiety) and envelopes the person in a little more security and a conversational distraction if they start to get stuck. Be open, calm, and genuine. It's easy .

You don't need to be completely shattered and see the fractal existence of the cosmos to work through anxiety. You just need to be able to step away from a locked perspective to explore something new and subtly beautiful. The benefit being they are still with-in themselves enough to access working memory and ponder things. Also the session should not solely be about them, ensure they have their intentions set(to work on anxiety in whatever circumstance they struggle in) but HAVE FUN TOO! Joke around, listen to music(but no t.v. or movies...), be human beings, with intermittent pauses for introspection and outer exploration.

I am speaking from first hand experience, as an anxiety 'sufferer'. My most beneficial experiences where low dose mushroom tea(1g-2g), 3g mimosa 3g rue ayahuasca, 10mg-15mg dmt in changa smoked, and 100mg iboga root bark. Hope this gives a good direction to start from.

edit- if you choose the mushroom tea make sure you both sip it slowly(over the course of 30-60 minutes) and don't chug it. 2g chugged can feel a bit more like 4g. Make sure there are no medication interactions. Also keep in mind xanax is addictive and she should probably get on a weening process if she seriously wants to work on these issues.

 

[entheogenadvocate]

I suffer from anxiety as well, and have found the most beneficial tools to be:

- Exercise: Use the anxious energy as fuel for a great workout. When I lift weights, I just focus on each anxious thought and proceed to go from exercise to exercise until I can feel that the negative energy has been eliminated from my body. It's a really healing experience. I find the workouts bring me clarity and allow me to view the anxious thoughts/worries from a much more rational perspective.

- Yoga/Meditation: There are so many ways to approach yoga or meditation, and trying to sort through all the advice and information out there can be overwhelming and cause you to never actually delve into the practices. My advice is to find a few main poses that feel good, and build from there. Even if your mom only incorporate 5-10 minutes of stretching, meditation, and reflection into her daily routine, I'm sure she will see a huge reduction in her anxious thoughts.

- Ayahuasca (extract or brew without admixture): My personal opinion is that MDMA is more of an escape than a tool for healing, and LSD is more beneficial to people who already have some experience doing battle with their anxious thoughts and succeeding. Lower doses of aya on the other hand, will hopefully bring the foundational issues of your mom's anxiety to the surface. As others have stated, this could be a very trying experience emotionally, but in a different way than being stuck smack dab in the middle of a 10 hour LSD trip curled up in a ball in the corner watching the ceiling melt down on you.

As others have stated, make sure you do A LOT of research on harmalas before you or your mother ingest them. The research is important so you know of drug interactions, and dosage so you don't send your mom into a harmala breakthrough.

I wish you and your mom the best. Peace and Happy Journeys

 

[pau]

on CNN today, psilocybin and cancer study in NYC:
Psilocybin and cancer study in NYC

 

[The Day Tripper]

IMHO, its a mixed bag, psychedelics and anxiety relief. Not to say it doesn't help, but i think the internal/external set and setting for the trip and intentions play into this alot.

Personally i've had more relief from unnecessary/illogical anxieties, but theres always those few trips that i can say definitively did not provide that, and are not a good experience for someone suffering from anxiety. For me, it took alot of low doses, combined with self administered CBT in a sense to get over anxieties. That is to say psych's opened the door for the work i had to do personally, sober, disciplined, and always be mindful of. But in no way do i think it could have not been accomplished without the drugs, it was just the catalyst that forced me to deal with them, and see how unnecessary and a burden they are on the body and mind (anxieties).

When the trip was over, the fear was still there in many cases, but i had a different perspective on what to do with it, and in some cases tools to deal with them in healthy ways psychologically. I'll also say that exercise and meditation is a very important part of the healing process, if its not already present. It really helps you unwind from the constant stress/tenseness that comes along with anxiety. In a healthy and drug free way that has no prerequisites other than the willpower to do so.

Bad trips can leave lasting anxiety though, or trigger a panic attack or psychotic episode in certain individuals, so tread with caution. Just my own personal 2c on the matter.

 

[Korey]

This is a difficult problem to address because in my experience, the pharmacological effects of psychedelics do little to nothing in regards to dampening or "curing" anxiety. One must not assume that one's subjective experience with psychedelics will be mirrored in another. A dose of LSD can be completely freeing for certain individuals in certain set and settings, yet another individual in the same set and setting may experience relentless torment, especially if there is no one there to guide them.

Disregarding the pharmacological effects of the drugs, it is blatant that these drugs can offer us awesome states of wonder which can allow us to peer into ourselves without prejudice and biased perspectives which may offer us extremely valuable introspective states. Through these states I've realized that it was possible to recondition myself, and free myself from something as petty as social anxiety. LSD takes the cake for allowing myself to wander inner space so freely and clearly, allowing me to integrate insights about my behavior quite easily into my normal, waking life.

Some people who are unfamiliar with psychedelic therapy assume that by just metabolizing the substance, the work has been done. Only if life were that easy....One must put forth effort into exploring inner space, the material being used won't do all of the work for you. The classic psychedelics can be keys, or even just lock picks, you must utilize the tool to your best ability and navigate through what lies behind the doors of which you are opening. The mind should be credited with these insights, not so much the drug.

 

[carlinesque]

As usual, Korey gets it right.

*Forrest Gump voice* ...and that's all I have to say. about that.

 

[tele]

I believe for some people they can help with anxiety and for some they can make it worse(at least for a while), it really is a mixed bag as stated above.
In some (maybe rare) cases they could help the person to see the cause of anxiety from a new perspective.